(2015) SF Ogugua Anunoby to IU

[Stuhoo]

One thing is true. If he doesn't work out Indiana is never out of schollies. We have 6 this year and also 2012 so finding room is not a problem. No need for balanced classes when you have no seniors. Maybe we should go the baseball route and have 35 players on 1/3 schollies each since they only get 11 or 12 full ones between them. Then you can run off all the freshmen who didn't get to play or who won't cut it, make all decent Jr.s go pro, and overecruit with Juco players for the rest of the remaining players. Creans system would be perfect for this. Or just go back in time before freshmen eligibility and start a JV feeder program. Hey, I may be on to something here. Some times you have to think outside the box when you can't land the big recruits.

 

This will be our fourth straight year that we add a McDonald's All-American to the team.  

 

Not every recruit we get is a big recruit, but we sure as heck can land the big recruits.

[rebelhoosier848891]

Good discussion. I agree with Stuhoo on this one.  I also get disappointed that we don't get all the recruits I want us to get--- but IU has amassed a lot of talent.  Also, at some point we have to trust the coaching staff knows more then we do about who might be leaving---NBA or otherwise.  Just maybe there is inside information we know nothing about. For example, NBA scouts come to practices and have a decent idea of who will be ready for the pros and who will not. Year after year we fret about the scholarship situation and it always works itself out. Next year will be no different.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

This will be our fourth straight year that we add a McDonald's All-American to the team.  
 
Not every recruit we get is a big recruit, but we sure as heck can land the big recruits.

The 2nd half of the 2014 class begs to differ. 2015 would be a clear chance to show he's still got it, and he's missed the BIG fish.

We are still in the running for some really solid kids but post Blackmon, recruiting has been weak sauce.

We hear a lot of big names but we aren't getting these kids. Even the homegrown 2015 in Coleman and Swanigan.

I like the upside 3 stars like Holt but we should be filled with primarily 4 stars, with a few 5 stars mixed in.

After all, we are Indiana.

I think any given IU roster should have 3-5 5 stars, 5-7 4 stars, and about 3 3 stars.

2014

2 5 stars. Yogi and Blackmon
4 4 stars Troy, Stan, Hanner, Rob
4 3 stars. Max, Holt, Devin, Hartman
3 2 or less. April, Priller, Ziesloft (hard to count, but UR out of high school). Also Max may actually be a 2 star or less.

[Stuhoo]

The 2nd half of the 2014 class begs to differ. 2015 would be a clear chance to show he's still got it, and he's missed the BIG fish.
We are still in the running for some really solid kids but post Blackmon, recruiting has been weak sauce.
We hear a lot of big names but we aren't getting these kids. Even the homegrown 2015 in Coleman and Swanigan.
I like the upside 3 stars like Holt but we should be filled with primarily 4 stars, with a few 5 stars mixed in.
After all, we are Indiana.
I think any given IU roster should have 3-5 5 stars, 5-7 4 stars, and about 3 3 stars.
2014
2 5 stars. Yogi and Blackmon
4 4 stars Troy, Stan, Hanner, Rob
4 3 stars. Max, Holt, Devin, Hartman
3 2 or less. April, Priller, Ziesloft (hard to count, but UR out of high school). Also Max may actually be a 2 star or less.

Holy crap...three to five five stars?!?

You realize that in any given year there are only about forty or fifty five stars playing in D1 (the others have gone pro long before their four years are up).

You think that IU should have ten percent of all five stars playing in a given year?!?

"We are Indiana" is correct. We are NOT Kentucky, putting a team on the court of exclusively mercenaries who, to a player, have NO intention of obtaining a college degree.

And thank goodness for that.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Holy crap...three to five five stars?!?
You realize that in any given year there are only about forty or fifty five stars playing in D1 (the others have gone pro long before their four years are up).
You think that IU should have ten percent of all five stars playing in a given year?!?
"We are Indiana" is correct. We are NOT Kentucky, putting a team on the court of exclusively mercenaries who, to a player, have NO intention of obtaining a college degree.
And thank goodness for that.

Way to pick 1 stat and ignore the rest. On THAT fact, according to 247 60+ 5 stars playing CBB this year. So yeah, 3-5 may be high but the more important point is 9-10 roster spots should be made of 4 and 5 stars. 1 5 star per year is not unreasonable at IU. I have never complained on Crean's recruiting until his recent streak of misses. That and the Hartman signing. I don't want UK model either but I'd like recruiting classes to be 1 5 star, 1-2 4 stars, and the very occasional 3 star that fits. Not a string of unrated prospects. That should never happen at Indiana.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Way to pick 1 stat and ignore the rest. On THAT fact, according to 247 60+ 5 stars playing CBB this year. So yeah, 3-5 may be high but the more important point is 9-10 roster spots should be made of 4 and 5 stars. 1 5 star per year is not unreasonable at IU. I have never complained on Crean's recruiting until his recent streak of misses. That and the Hartman signing. I don't want UK model either but I'd like recruiting classes to be 1 5 star, 1-2 4 stars, and the very occasional 3 star that fits. Not a string of unrated prospects. That should never happen at Indiana.

The point is, you won't have one 5 star kid representing each class. They will have jumped for the league after one or two years of college, so unless you are using UK's model, it is unrealistic to expect four 5 stars. To be honest with you, I think it's amazing that we only complain about Crean's recruiting since he convinced Blackmon to recommit, because major commitments for 2015 have barely started to roll in. Take a look at the top 100 for 2015. Over 50% is uncommitted and most are outside of the top 50. And, honestly, we had Zeller, Ferrell, Vonleh and Blackmon all in the last four years. There's your one stud a year requirement. Crean's recruiting is absolutely not the issue.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[BGleas]

I agree, I think that's the model for being consistent/perennial contenders. 2-3 5*'s a year might be a bit much, but I've always felt consistent contending programs are built on multiple 4* recruits each year, sprinkled in with a 5* and a 3*. Of course, it all varies based on class size each year.

The 5* guys are your instant impact guys, the 4* guys are your foundation of the program, and the 3* guys are role players or end of bench guys, outside the diamond in the rough guy like VO.

Way to pick 1 stat and ignore the rest. On THAT fact, according to 247 60+ 5 stars playing CBB this year. So yeah, 3-5 may be high but the more important point is 9-10 roster spots should be made of 4 and 5 stars. 1 5 star per year is not unreasonable at IU. I have never complained on Crean's recruiting until his recent streak of misses. That and the Hartman signing. I don't want UK model either but I'd like recruiting classes to be 1 5 star, 1-2 4 stars, and the very occasional 3 star that fits. Not a string of unrated prospects. That should never happen at Indiana.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

One thing is true. If he doesn't work out Indiana is never out of schollies. We have 6 this year and also 2012 so finding room is not a problem. No need for balanced classes when you have no seniors. Maybe we should go the baseball route and have 35 players on 1/3 schollies each since they only get 11 or 12 full ones between them. Then you can run off all the freshmen who didn't get to play or who won't cut it, make all decent Jr.s go pro, and overecruit with Juco players for the rest of the remaining players. Creans system would be perfect for this. Or just go back in time before freshmen eligibility and start a JV feeder program. Hey, I may be on to something here. Some times you have to think outside the box when you can't land the big recruits.

Oh?


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I agree, I think that's the model for being consistent/perennial contenders. 2-3 5*'s a year might be a bit much, but I've always felt consistent contending programs are built on multiple 4* recruits each year, sprinkled in with a 5* and a 3*. Of course, it all varies based on class size each year.
The 5* guys are your instant impact guys, the 4* guys are your foundation of the program, and the 3* guys are role players or end of bench guys, outside the diamond in the rough guy like VO.

Exactly my point. If you are lucky enough to get 2 5 stars then take them but the model should be just as we referenced. People think all 5 stars are gone ever year. Not true. Not even close. Over half stay 2 and a portion play 3 (Yogi, Dekker, Dawson, Poythress, Sulaimon, Tarcewzski, Dunn). That's 7/25 5 stars playing into year three and there may be more I didn't check all of them. It is not the UK model taking 5 stars. Is yogi a conventional 5 star? Is Dekker? Is Blackmon? Some/most of these guys need multiple years.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

15/25 2013 5 stars are playing in their second year including 4 from UK. Harrison, Harrison, Dakari Johnson, Marcus Lee. 5 stars being 1 and done is a misnomer. Top 10 guys are often 1 and done but not generally guys 11-25 with some exceptions.

[rebelhoosier848891]

We get too fixated on "stars".  There's not that much difference between a high 4 star and low 5 star----someone's subjective opinion. Plus-- a 4 star from last year like Troy who works hard and matures for a year may actually be better than a 5 star this year!  Don't get me wrong--I want 5 star players to come to IU too--but it is not the end of the world if we do not get one every year.  The ability to properly identify talent in recruiting and player development are equally important to "stars" and that is a strength in our program.

[rebelhoosier848891]

Now-- after making that last post--and after watching his highlight video--I have become FIXATED ON 5 STAR Thon Maker and pray that he will join our team and help us hang banner #6!  :)

[Stuhoo]

Way to pick 1 stat and ignore the rest. On THAT fact, according to 247 60+ 5 stars playing CBB this year. So yeah, 3-5 may be high but the more important point is 9-10 roster spots should be made of 4 and 5 stars. 1 5 star per year is not unreasonable at IU. I have never complained on Crean's recruiting until his recent streak of misses. That and the Hartman signing. I don't want UK model either but I'd like recruiting classes to be 1 5 star, 1-2 4 stars, and the very occasional 3 star that fits. Not a string of unrated prospects. That should never happen at Indiana.

 

WayneHoosier (my friend);

 

First of all, if you have schoosier 'liking' your posts too often, that means you may have overreached into the land of negativity ;)

 

Next; Do you realize that our likely starting lineup for this year is: Two 5* and three 4*, with a 4* as our sixth man, and three 3* and a successful grad transfer as our seventh, eighth, and ninth men in?

 

To directly address your point...I think we basically agree on the proper recruiting model:

That model is: a five star and long term four stars as the core of the team, with a three star or lower turning into a plus rotation player for every four/five star that either doesn't turn out or leaves early.

 

Problems arise when either:

 

-> The five stars leave for the NBA too early (we've had that issue),

-> The four stars crash due to injury, grades, homesickness, or just plain lousiness - and we've had too much of that (Patterson, Fischer, Hollowell, Creek)

-> None of the back bench three stars turn into quality players (here, we've done way better than expected with VO, Will, Devin, etc.)

[WayneFleekHoosier]

WayneHoosier (my friend);
 
First of all, if you have schoosier 'liking' your posts too often, that means you may have overreached into the land of negativity ;)
 
Next; Do you realize that our likely starting lineup for this year is: Two 5* and three 4*, with a 4* as our sixth man, and three 3* and a successful grad transfer as our seventh, eighth, and ninth men in?
 
To directly address your point...I think we basically agree on the proper recruiting model:
That model is: a five star and long term four stars as the core of the team, with a three star or lower turning into a plus rotation player for every four/five star that either doesn't turn out or leaves early.
 
Problems arise when either:
 
-> The five stars leave for the NBA too early (we've had that issue),
-> The four stars crash due to injury, grades, homesickness, or just plain lousiness - and we've had too much of that (Patterson, Fischer, Hollowell, Creek)
-> None of the back bench three stars turn into quality players (here, we've done way better than expected with VO, Will, Devin, etc.)

I think we mostly agree. My concerns are not necessarily for THIS year as we have TOP end talent still. But as Yogi, TW, etc.. depart we need to be replacing them with like talent and not UR/2star/1star type players. If we end up with 2 or 3 4 star types in 2015, I'll be less concerned. The recent trend is just disconcerting for our future. My major grump was we did not adequately replace the void left by NV. We had chances and didn't finish.

[mamasa]

WayneHoosier (my friend);

 

First of all, if you have schoosier 'liking' your posts too often, that means you may have overreached into the land of negativity ;)

 

 

 

:clapping:  :lol:

[Walking Boot of Doom]

I think we mostly agree. My concerns are not necessarily for THIS year as we have TOP end talent still. But as Yogi, TW, etc.. depart we need to be replacing them with like talent and not UR/2star/1star type players. If we end up with 2 or 3 4 star types in 2015, I'll be less concerned. The recent trend is just disconcerting for our future. My major grump was we did not adequately replace the void left by NV. We had chances and didn't finish.

That's very true, but I still think we can add a high caliber 5  star. Crean seems to come in hot last minute with some of these recruits. I'm just hoping Yogi, Troy and JBJ are all there for 2015-2016 in which case our lack of another 5 star talent may not be a concern, as long as we line up a nice recruiting class for 2016. If I could put together the pieces of my perfect recruiting scenario, we will land a solid 4 star contributor, like Juwan Morgan, in 2015 during HMP's final season, and a 5 star in 2016, such as De'Ron Davis, after HMP is gone.

[rebelhoosier848891]

Good discussion gentlemen-- just don't forget to figure Holt into your future frontcourt plans---regardless of "stars" by his name- he will become-- A Star!

 

I like your general premise of sprinkling in a few so-called 5 stars players with several so-called 3 and 4 star players who will stay multiple years and increase in skill--and build experience and depth. Star ratings are one thing--- but good-- old fashioned--experience--especially in the Big Ten-- is equally important! 

[ccgeneral]

First OV to Iowa this past weekend and looks like he's moving his OV with us to sometime this month.

[Hutch89]

if we're able to get Juwan Morgan on board, would we want or need Anunoby still?   seem to be about the same size and weight. 

[Hovadipo]

I'd rather have Juwan and Shake. Would be odd to take OG and Juwan.


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