IU’s basketball culture is dead (and the case for why our next coach should be given 6+ seasons)

[IUHoosierJoe]

33 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

May could have had the job THIS year had he wanted it or simply waited out the Woodson experiment that everyone knew was on borrowed time. He chose to go to Michigan that shares every resource IU has and likely then some without a delusional or toxic fan base. Have heard from a very reliable source that he had no desire to put his immediate and extended family through a potentially very ugly scene had things not worked out here, as many still live in the area. 

Your "reliable source" is incorrect on why Dusty isn't coaching here.  While I'll certainly agree with you that we have some dumb fans, that has nothing to do with why he isn't here.  And I will also tell you that, at least several years ago, Bruce Pearl certainly would have crawled here to coach.  And that's personal knowledge, no "sources" involved.

[Pagoda]

15 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Of course not, he’s at a better job, as would have been the case with IU and Michigan being open at the same time two years ago.

I’ve been an IU fan longer than you’ve been alive. Not something you can just walk away from.

He would have taken IU over UM in 2024.  My source is great.

Oh you can walk away.  I don’t know why you don’t.

- Our fanbase is toxic and bad, which the primary thing holding back the program

- Our fanbase will not change

- Therefore IUBB is permanently done

I’m just following your logic.

It’s time to move on.  It’s hard to be a fan of a program and hate the fans of the program.  You’ve got cut ties with all these bad people asap!

 

[Home Jersey]

This latest round of deflection has centered the conversation on Tom Crean, who is ancient history at this point. We have 9 years of data since then from 3 different coaches and the problem has persisted. It's not fans. It's coaching.

A program that spends like IU - to say nothing of the Indiana basketball brand - has not been getting what they've paid for over the last two decades. In a given decade, at a minimum, a program that spends like us should make the tournament more often than not. A couple times you should go to the second weekend. That's the bare minimum and none of the last four coaches were able to do that. It's been 18 freaking years of worse than mediocre results. The fanbase didn't do that. It seems kind of crazy to make that case? 

[JSHoosier]

2 hours ago, Jeff Flabjohns said:

 

May would have been here if we acted like any other serious program and discarded Woodson after year 3.

 

If we acted like a serious program we wouldn't have hired Woodson to begin with. Though we definitely waited to long to rectify that mistake.

I'm so tired of our fans being blamed for the program's struggles. Are there some knuckleheads? Absolutely. Same as any program and especially programs with the history of IU.

We've missed out on landing top coaches because stupid internal politics and/or waiting too long to get rid of bad coaches.

[AH1971]

10 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

He would have taken IU over UM in 2024.  My source is great.

Oh you can walk away.  I don’t know why you don’t.

- Our fanbase is toxic and bad, which the primary thing holding back the program

- Our fanbase will not change

- Therefore IUBB is permanently done

I’m just following your logic.

It’s time to move on.  It’s hard to be a fan of a program and hate the fans of the program.  You’ve got cut ties with all these bad people asap!

 

You are correct. The IU basketball program I grew up with in the 70’s and 80’s is long gone. Dead and never coming back. That’s been established for well over 20 years. Will still always root for my Alma Mater and hope they win every game. Two things can be true.

[AZ Hoosier]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

And If we acted like a serious program we wouldn't have hired Woodson to begin with. Though we definitely waited to long to rectify that mistake.

I'm so tired of our fans being blamed for the program's struggles. Are there some knuckleheads? Absolutely. Same as any program and especially programs with the history of IU.

We've missed out on landing top coaches because stupid internal politics and/or waiting too long to get rid of bad coaches.

Quinn Buckner needs to stay in his lane and keep his nepotistic fingers off of the athletic department. If I were in charge, I'd remove him from the IU athletics hall of fame for this crap. His interference in the hiring and retention of Mike Woodson has superseded any positives from his playing days. As long as he's on the BoT, a repeat is possible. Thankfully, he's no longer chairman, but he should have been kicked to the curb for actions. He's a stain on the university.

 

[AH1971]

17 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

This latest round of deflection has centered the conversation on Tom Crean, who is ancient history at this point. We have 9 years of data since then from 3 different coaches and the problem has persisted. It's not fans. It's coaching.

A program that spends like IU - to say nothing of the Indiana basketball brand - has not been getting what they've paid for over the last two decades. In a given decade, at a minimum, a program that spends like us should make the tournament more often than not. A couple times you should go to the second weekend. That's the bare minimum and none of the last four coaches were able to do that. It's been 18 freaking years of worse than mediocre results. The fanbase didn't do that. It seems kind of crazy to make that case? 

Uh no. It’s this idiotic generation of IU fans (who weren’t even alive when IU was a power) that have decided winning conference championships and reaching the second weekend is beneath current day IU, who is a shell of its former self. And for the under 30 crowd, yikes…it’s only going to get worse.

[Kentuckysucks]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

If we acted like a serious program we wouldn't have hired Woodson to begin with. Though we definitely waited to long to rectify that mistake.

I'm so tired of our fans being blamed for the program's struggles. Are there some knuckleheads? Absolutely. Same as any program and especially programs with the history of IU.

We've missed out on landing top coaches because stupid internal politics and/or waiting too long to get rid of bad coaches.

You kind of hit the nail on the head with the last paragraph.  IU has definitely had bad timing when hiring coaches.  There have been good coaches available that we could've had at certain times but we didn't have an opening.  But you have to be willing to create the timing and thus far they've been unwilling to do so.  Hopefully that changes going forward.

[Five Prime]

4 hours ago, Home Jersey said:

Run out of town after... 9 years and 4 tournament appearances and one winning conference record in the last 4 years? Haha

How's it been since?

[Home Jersey]

Just now, Five Prime said:

How's it been since?

What was Tom Crean's record from 2018-2022?

[Five Prime]

1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

This latest round of deflection has centered the conversation on Tom Crean, who is ancient history at this point. We have 9 years of data since then from 3 different coaches and the problem has persisted. It's not fans. It's coaching.

A program that spends like IU - to say nothing of the Indiana basketball brand - has not been getting what they've paid for over the last two decades. In a given decade, at a minimum, a program that spends like us should make the tournament more often than not. A couple times you should go to the second weekend. That's the bare minimum and none of the last four coaches were able to do that. It's been 18 freaking years of worse than mediocre results. The fanbase didn't do that. It seems kind of crazy to make that case? 

Its not the fan base, its everything; administration, AD, coaching, fan expectations...literally everything except money is working against any head coach that takes this job. 

[Five Prime]

1 minute ago, Home Jersey said:

What was Tom Crean's record from 2018-2022?

I appreciate the cherry picking of data to try to back your narrative of "its just poor coaching". Obviously, its much more than that. 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, Home Jersey said:

What was Tom Crean's record from 2018-2022?

Again, who cares? Tom Crean’s record at a football school in the middle of a dynasty pre-NIL or portal is IRRELEVANT. What was Thad Matta’s record after he left Ohio State?

[Home Jersey]

Just now, Five Prime said:

I appreciate the cherry picking of data to try to back your narrative of "its just poor coaching". Obviously, its much more than that. 

Brother, you're saying we should've kept Tom Crean. How is it cherrypicking data to ask what his record was during the period of time you'd have liked us to retain him? Lol

[Five Prime]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

What was Tom Crean's record from 2018-2022?

Over the last 20 years IU has averaged a 19-14 record. Keep in mind there have been 6 coaches during this timeframe. 

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

How's it been since?

Since Tom Crean it’s been lousy.

That doesn’t mean Crean should have stayed longer; that means he shouldn’t have been replaced with lousy, followed by lousy.

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Again, who cares? Tom Crean’s record at a football school in the middle of a dynasty pre-NIL or portal is IRRELEVANT. What was Thad Matta’s record after he left Ohio State?

It’s extremely relevant.  And it 100% your destroys your argument.

15-57 in conference… ouch.

Should be easier at a place with no pressure too, or so I am told.

[Five Prime]

Just now, Home Jersey said:

Brother, you're saying we should've kept Tom Crean. How is it cherrypicking data to ask what his record was during the period of time you'd have liked us to retain him? Lol

I didnt say we should have kept Tom Crean. I simply said our fan base expectations ran him out of town, but in retrospect he had the most success of any IU bball coach since Knight. 

[Uspshoosier]

5 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

What was Tom Crean's record from 2018-2022?

[AH1971]

Just now, Home Jersey said:

Brother, you're saying we should've kept Tom Crean. How is it cherrypicking data to ask what his record was during the period of time you'd have liked us to retain him? Lol

If Tom Crean went 15-57 in the same time at IU then by all means fire him and don’t let him back on campus. But we fired him after winning 2 B10 titles and reaching the S16 three different times in a six year span.

DELUSIONAL