Fire Darian DeVries? Lol

[HoosierDevils]

7 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Why do we always give new coaches massive buyouts? Is it because:

1) We really think someone will try to poach them if they're successful

2) Everyone else does it, or 

3) We want to protect them from their own failures

 

Because it’s a two sided market and no coach/agent would sign a contract without one? 

[TheWatShot]

9 hours ago, HoosierDevils said:

Because it’s a two sided market and no coach/agent would sign a contract without one? 

If we're talking to coaches who want a huge buyout then we're talking to the wrong people. 

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

If we're talking to coaches who want a huge buyout then we're talking to the wrong people. 

Disagree. Unless you are okay with hiring a head coach with little/no D1 head coaching experience, or hiring a head coach that is in little to no demand.

Can you give me an example of a potential good hire, from either the Devries hiring cycle or a future possibility, that would not require a substantial buyout? If you cannot, it's just wishful thinking and not grounded in reality.

[IUHoosierJoe]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

Disagree. Unless you are okay with hiring a head coach with little/no D1 head coaching experience, or hiring a head coach that is in little to no demand.

Can you give me an example of a potential good hire, from either the Devries hiring cycle or a future possibility, that would not require a substantial buyout? If you cannot, it's just wishful thinking and not grounded in reality.

In all fairness, we’re in the “Fire Darian DeVries” thread, which is not grounded in reality to begin with. 

[pumpfake]

Ultimately it's looking like we might have had much more success over the past 10 years if we had hired Alford. Hard to admit as someone who has always opposed it. 

[Kentuckysucks]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Disagree. Unless you are okay with hiring a head coach with little/no D1 head coaching experience, or hiring a head coach that is in little to no demand.

Can you give me an example of a potential good hire, from either the Devries hiring cycle or a future possibility, that would not require a substantial buyout? If you cannot, it's just wishful thinking and not grounded in reality.

Schertz maybe.  He's only making $2M year at STL.  Maybe 2 years $10M guaranteed would entice him.  He wins enough the first 2 years to get a longer or deal or not and goes back to coaching a mid major after earning 8 figures very quickly.

[Stuhoo]

20 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Schertz maybe.  He's only making $2M year at STL.  Maybe 2 years $10M guaranteed would entice him.  He wins enough the first 2 years to get a longer or deal or not and goes back to coaching a mid major after earning 8 figures very quickly.

I'm not thinking that a $10 million buyout for Schertz would satisfy @TheWatShot (but maybe).

I agree with your assessment of the type of buyout Schertz would require, and he might be a best example.

[HoosierDevils]

1 hour ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Schertz maybe.  He's only making $2M year at STL.  Maybe 2 years $10M guaranteed would entice him.  He wins enough the first 2 years to get a longer or deal or not and goes back to coaching a mid major after earning 8 figures very quickly.

We're not the only school, though, which is my point. Fine, we can offer someone like Schertz a deal like that, but then couldn't another P4 school offer the same + a buyout? It's a two sided market meaning he (and all coaches) negotiate and program compete against each other in the labor market for talent and bid up what's in the contract until you get to essentially the prevailing structure we have now. Don't get me wrong -- I find it frustrating too! We spend SO much buying out all these contracts for the person we're firing and the person we're hiring that it feels like we must be spending more than any other school the past 10-12 years without the results to show for it. Really annoying, but also want to put into context what the market for stars is like

[Kentuckysucks]

58 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm not thinking that a $10 million buyout for Schertz would satisfy @TheWatShot (but maybe).

I agree with your assessment of the type of buyout Schertz would require, and he might be a best example.

It would be a $5M buyout at most unless we're going to fire him before he's even coached a game.

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

It would be a $5M buyout at most unless we're going to fire him before he's even coached a game.

So in other words, almost an exact replica of theDevries' buyout. From ESPN upon his hire:

"If DeVries were to leave, his buyout would be $10 million in 2026 and would decline by $2 million per season over each of the next two years before dropping to $3 million in the fourth year of the deal. That number goes to $1 million in 2030 before hitting zero in 2031."

[Kentuckysucks]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

So in other words, almost an exact replica of theDevries' buyout. From ESPN upon his hire:

"If DeVries were to leave, his buyout would be $10 million in 2026 and would decline by $2 million per season over each of the next two years before dropping to $3 million in the fourth year of the deal. That number goes to $1 million in 2030 before hitting zero in 2031."

That's incorrect.  We'd owe over $20M if we fired him now.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Already talking buyouts. lol. I will never blame our fanbase though.  This is a niche discussion, but we need to inject some confidence and some swagger into the hoops program some way.  I genuinely don’t see a 1 year turnaround happening.  Predicting a roster that will win isn’t the hard part. Convincing them to play for DeVries and Indiana just might be.   

[HinnyHoosier]

13 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Already talking buyouts. lol. I will never blame our fanbase though.  This is a niche discussion, but we need to inject some confidence and some swagger into the hoops program some way.  I genuinely don’t see a 1 year turnaround happening.  Predicting a roster that will win isn’t the hard part. Convincing them to play for DeVries and Indiana just might be.   

Agreed. And now that football has fulfilled its prophecy and he's now proven to have hired the greatest talent evaluator and coach in college football, Scott Dolson has a very clear and narrow objective: get Indiana great at BOTH. It's incredibly difficult to do at this level,  having both highly successful football and basketball programs, but we are actively feasting on the fruits of the 'WHY NOT US' mindset. So...why can't Indiana be the one? 

 

DDV will not be fired at the end of this season barring some sort of egregious behavior or major violation. He may not be, or probably isn't, the guy here unless some drastic improvement is demonstrated next year that gives us a reason to pause on that mindset.  And that doesn't appear to have a high likelihood right now. But firing him this year digs a deeper hole that administration started on long ago. What proponents of a fiscally irresponsible insta-firing can hope for, though, is Scott already doing his basketball homework on post-DDV tenure actions. Basically, we're handcuffed into this situation for the time being but he'd better be formulating the plan ahead of time for when the cuffs come off. 

[str8baller]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Can you give me an example of a potential good hire, from either the Devries hiring cycle or a future possibility, that would not require a substantial buyout? If you cannot, it's just wishful thinking and not grounded in reality.

You have to reach down and hire someone promising but unproven instead of bid top dollar for the latest hot name.   
 

Florida paid Golden $18/6 to leave San Francisco. I can’t find buyout numbers, but we might be able to infer the contract was a little flimsy from the fact that they already redid it for him in ‘24 with a small bump in salary. They obviously redid it again for him last year with a huge bump in salary.  
 

McCasland signed a similar deal initially out of N Texas. His buyout was 70%.  
 

So not only did IU dish out a premium in salary, it looks like we juiced the buyout another 10% which isn’t nothing. 

[8bucks]

8 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

Agreed. And now that football has fulfilled its prophecy and he's now proven to have hired the greatest talent evaluator and coach in college football, Scott Dolson has a very clear and narrow objective: get Indiana great at BOTH. It's incredibly difficult to do at this level,  having both highly successful football and basketball programs, but we are actively feasting on the fruits of the 'WHY NOT US' mindset. So...why can't Indiana be the one? 

 

DDV will not be fired at the end of this season barring some sort of egregious behavior or major violation. He may not be, or probably isn't, the guy here unless some drastic improvement is demonstrated next year that gives us a reason to pause on that mindset.  And that doesn't appear to have a high likelihood right now. But firing him this year digs a deeper hole that administration started on long ago. What proponents of a fiscally irresponsible insta-firing can hope for, though, is Scott already doing his basketball homework on post-DDV tenure actions. Basically, we're handcuffed into this situation for the time being but he'd better be formulating the plan ahead of time for when the cuffs come off. 

We may not make a change and I predict Dolson will see that Bball needs a big cash infusion to help out but I remember something Cig said early that should apply too "No self-imposed limitations"

[WayneFleekHoosier]

7 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

Agreed. And now that football has fulfilled its prophecy and he's now proven to have hired the greatest talent evaluator and coach in college football, Scott Dolson has a very clear and narrow objective: get Indiana great at BOTH. It's incredibly difficult to do at this level,  having both highly successful football and basketball programs, but we are actively feasting on the fruits of the 'WHY NOT US' mindset. So...why can't Indiana be the one? 

 

DDV will not be fired at the end of this season barring some sort of egregious behavior or major violation. He may not be, or probably isn't, the guy here unless some drastic improvement is demonstrated next year that gives us a reason to pause on that mindset.  And that doesn't appear to have a high likelihood right now. But firing him this year digs a deeper hole that administration started on long ago. What proponents of a fiscally irresponsible insta-firing can hope for, though, is Scott already doing his basketball homework on post-DDV tenure actions. Basically, we're handcuffed into this situation for the time being but he'd better be formulating the plan ahead of time for when the cuffs come off. 

DeVries just seems like a dude.  Will work with what he has. Nonchalant type guy. 
 

But Seriously, Dolson and DeVries need to have a lengthy meeting and come up with a plan and finances to resurrect a program on life support.  They HAVE to have a tournament quality team next year.  Should have happened this year, but they all dropped the ball for X number of reasons. My most diehard basketball friends don’t even talk basketball anymore. They do talk football though. lol. Anyway, I’m nervous for DeVries and me as an IUBB fan because I used to have hope.  Now that’s mostly gone. 

[HinnyHoosier]

5 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

DeVries just seems like a dude.  Will work with what he has. Nonchalant type guy. 
 

But Seriously, Dolson and DeVries need to have a lengthy meeting and come up with a plan and finances to resurrect a program on life support.  They HAVE to have a tournament quality team next year.  Should have happened this year, but they all dropped the ball for X number of reasons. My most diehard basketball friends don’t even talk basketball anymore. They do talk football though. lol. Anyway, I’m nervous for DeVries and me as an IUBB fan because I used to have hope.  Now that’s mostly gone. 

I think he and Scott both dropped the ball together pre-hire. And of course we don't know all the details so I'm merely speculating, but with the way staff and roster building played out it just seems like there wasn't any real plan or expectation established regarding his transition to IU and how he planned to reverse the course of the program, starting with day 1. 

[Golfman25]

13 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

We may not make a change and I predict Dolson will see that Bball needs a big cash infusion to help out but I remember something Cig said early that should apply too "No self-imposed limitations"

Which is what we started with because his assistants had some prior history with IU, no?  DDV should have said, no "self-imposed limitations" -- my guys or the highway.  :) 

[8bucks]

10 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Which is what we started with because his assistants had some prior history with IU, no?  DDV should have said, no "self-imposed limitations" -- my guys or the highway.  :) 

Are you thinking we would not let him bring those assistants?  I thought the assistants made the decision not to come.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

18 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

I think he and Scott both dropped the ball together pre-hire. And of course we don't know all the details so I'm merely speculating, but with the way staff and roster building played out it just seems like there wasn't any real plan or expectation established regarding his transition to IU and how he planned to reverse the course of the program, starting with day 1. 

I think they were more worried about parting with Woodson and not as concerned about building the future. I also think the NIL transfer portal shocked them. I hear we put 10 million into the team.  I think they expected that to put themselves in a more advantageous position than it did.  With Kentucky at 22 and a few other schools going high, we goofed up too, by paying 13 when we should have focused primarily on 8.  And gone heavier in spots 1-5 than we did.  This is all stuff I’ve been talking about all offseason.  Not sure we can or want to do more with football taking the lions share now.  Getting a “superstar” would help fan engagement though.  We had one with TJD.  Homegrown.  
 

As always it boils down to winning basketball games. No matter how you do it.  Fans will flock.  

Edited January 21 by WayneFleekHoosier