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[Certified Sunshine Pumper 11,427]

McCollum's team this year with 3 D2 guys.... played 3 Power 5 teams this year---- they scored 81, 80, and 73 in this game. Won all 3. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 11,427]

Just watched the first 5 mins of Vandy/Drake.... there is GOBS more movement in half-court offense between Drake and us, currently.... 

where do we rank in pace compared to Drake? 

[Hovadipo 61,316]

39 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Just watched the first 5 mins of Vandy/Drake.... there is GOBS more movement in half-court offense between Drake and us, currently.... 

where do we rank in pace compared to Drake? 

Drake is dead last (364) in the nation in tempo. We're 140th.

[TadQueasy 2,516]

Ball movement and Pace are 2 completely different things. 

[Home Jersey 15,448]

49 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Just watched the first 5 mins of Vandy/Drake.... there is GOBS more movement in half-court offense between Drake and us, currently.... 

where do we rank in pace compared to Drake? 

I thought this was an interesting question so googled a few things...

• In terms of possessions per game, Drake is dead last with 62. Indiana is 132 averaging 71. 
• Drake is 25 in rebounding margin at +5, IU is 113 at +2. 
• Drake is 2 in scoring defense behind Houston, opponents average 58.4 PPG. IU is 184, opponents average 72. 
• Extra scoring chances per game, Drake is 11 with 5.6 per game, Indiana 159 with .4. 
• Effective FG% - Drake is 49 nationally .547 vs. Indiana 168 nationally .516

From these stats and the 10 or so games I've watched this year, they control the pace of play and are very efficient. Don't get sped up too often and when they do, they're able to settle down before too much damage is done. I like his style of play and think plenty of B10 caliber players would too. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 11,427]

20 minutes ago, TadQueasy said:

Ball movement and Pace are 2 completely different things. 

I completely understand lol 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 11,427]

24 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Drake is dead last (364) in the nation in tempo. We're 140th.

Amazing. This tells me idgaf about this "stat" lol 

[TadQueasy 2,516]

1 minute ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

I completely understand lol 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 11,427]

2 minutes ago, TadQueasy said:

I do. I very much do. It's an elementary subject. 

My question was about if I'd like to watch his teams play... in 5 mins that was pretty well answered. 

[RoadRage 3,012]

McCollum will say that they don't deliberately slow the game down on offense, but that they don't take bad shots. They will take a shot early in the clock if it is a good shot. If and when he moves up to a P5 conference, he will have better players that are able to create their own shots, he does not tell his team to run down the clock before looking for a shot.

[Hovadipo 61,316]

5 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I thought this was an interesting question so googled a few things...

• In terms of possessions per game, Drake is dead last with 62. Indiana is 132 averaging 71. 
• Drake is 25 in rebounding margin at +5, IU is 113 at +2. 
• Drake is 2 in scoring defense behind Houston, opponents average 58.4 PPG. IU is 184, opponents average 72. 
• Extra scoring chances per game, Drake is 11 with 5.6 per game, Indiana 159 with .4. 
• Effective FG% - Drake is 49 nationally .547 vs. Indiana 168 nationally .516

From these stats and the 10 or so games I've watched this year, they control the pace of play and are very efficient. Don't get sped up too often and when they do, they're able to settle down before too much damage is done. I like his style of play and think plenty of B10 caliber players would too. 

It's always been about efficiency. It's nice to see it spelled out so simply though. I think pace/tempo are just easier to wrap your head around than everything that goes into efficiency. A fast team that sucks is a way more terrible watch than an elite slow team. I loved UVA's top 5 offensive years.

[Home Jersey 15,448]

RE: pace, the difference between 9 possessions a game (Drake's last place in NCAA) vs Indiana (middle of the pack) is negligible from a fan perspective IMO. Like Demo said the other day, most fans wouldn't even be able to note the difference during a game. 

Do they play like St. Johns, who averages a staggering 79 possessions per game? Of course not, polar opposite. Different style. Different philosophy to the game. McCollum has said in a podcast previously shared here that he prioritizes efficiency above all else because he believes that's the best way you can beat really high quality teams in a given game. That style seems to be working well for him + Tony Bennett / Bo Ryan...

[str8baller 7,336]

51 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

• Drake is 25 in rebounding margin at +5, IU is 113 at +2. 
• Drake is 2 in scoring defense behind Houston, opponents average 58.4 PPG. IU is 184, opponents average 72. 
• Extra scoring chances per game, Drake is 11 with 5.6 per game, Indiana 159 with .4. 

I was surprised to see them so high in Off Rebounding. That probably helps keep their pace down a little. 
 

FWIW, 59 possessions (adjusted) on Kenpom is pretty much dead on where Bennetts title team in Virginia and Bo Ryan’s runner up squad was at. Both were incredibly efficient offenses, though. 

[Kentuckysucks 4,332]

 

 

[AH1971 2,979]

1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

Do they play like St. Johns, who averages a staggering 79 possessions per game? Of course not, polar opposite. Different style. Different philosophy to the game. McCollum has said in a podcast previously shared here that he prioritizes efficiency above all else because he believes that's the best way you can beat really high quality teams in a given game. That style seems to be working well for him + Tony Bennett / Bo Ryan...

I think its the fact that he doesn't heavily value the 3 point line and almost completely ignores fast break/transition opportunities. That is a tough sell to a lot of recruits, especially high end ones that aspire to play in the NBA. It worked at places like Wisconsin and Virginia as those schools historically struggle in recruiting. Obviously Tony Bennett and Bo Ryan eventually had tournament breakthroughs, but both and Tony Bennett in particular, are widely known for their tournament struggles. 

 

[HoosierCoop 4,159]

1 hour ago, RoadRage said:

McCollum will say that they don't deliberately slow the game down on offense, but that they don't take bad shots. They will take a shot early in the clock if it is a good shot. If and when he moves up to a P5 conference, he will have better players that are able to create their own shots, he does not tell his team to run down the clock before looking for a shot.

Is this......Badger ball???

[Kentuckysucks 4,332]

1 minute ago, HoosierCoop said:

Is this......Badger ball???

It's Badger Ball right after an Ambien.

[Home Jersey 15,448]

15 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I think its the fact that he doesn't heavily value the 3 point line and almost completely ignores fast break/transition opportunities. That is a tough sell to a lot of recruits, especially high end ones that aspire to play in the NBA. It worked at places like Wisconsin and Virginia as those schools historically struggle in recruiting. Obviously Tony Bennett and Bo Ryan eventually had tournament breakthroughs, but both and Tony Bennett in particular, are widely known for their tournament struggles. 

 

They shoot one less 3 per game than IU does on average. Just not a huge concern for me. Assume some level of adjustments in his style come with the step up in competition / talent on his own roster. Maybe they do run a little more if he’s got a roster of 3 and 4 star guys with the odd 5 star guy every now and then. I don’t get hung up on if they shoot enough 3s or don’t run so often. He finds guys for his system and wins. Add our NIL and I think it works here. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 11,427]

4 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

They shoot one less 3 per game than IU does on average. Just not a huge concern for me. Assume some level of adjustments in his style come with the step up in competition / talent on his own roster. Maybe they do run a little more if he’s got a roster of 3 and 4 star guys with the odd 5 star guy every now and then. I don’t get hung up on if they shoot enough 3s or don’t run so often. He finds guys for his system and wins. Add our NIL and I think it works here. 

he's had years in D2 where they shot 25+

[str8baller 7,336]

28 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

They shoot one less 3 per game than IU does on average.

I think people are looking at his raw numbers and forgetting to factor their slower pace in. 
 

According to Torvik they rank 234th on 3pt rate, which is pace neutral. For reference, Indiana ranks 316th. 
 

Izzos, Tommy Lloyds, Fews, Selfs, and Randy Bennetts teams shoot less 3’s as a percentage of their overall FG attempts. 
 

What they do to compensate is get a ton of looks (comparative to pace) around the rim, ranking just behind Mays and Bennetts squads and right ahead of Oats, Hurleys and Buzz Williams teams. Again, according to Torviks site.