President Whitten - 2024 Faculty No Vote

[IUCrazy2 2,261]

They are arresting people now.  There was a reason Whitten made some of the decisions she did.  Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

[RaceToTheTop 24,525]

35 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

They are arresting people now.  There was a reason Whitten made some of the decisions she did.  Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

Did the decisions she made prevent the protests or stop the disruption?

Attempting to silence dissension doesn’t stop it and often has the opposite effect.  Anyway, protests exist and if the protestors break the law there are consequences.  I don’t see any issue with protesting nor an issue with enforcing any laws that are broken by protestors.  

[Stuhoo 77,862]

All,

This is a no-politics board. It is designed for interaction about IU sports, with the occasional side-track into areas like music, food, and travel.

While I fully understand that powder-keg issues touch IU just as they touch everywhere else, and fully appreciate that this thread has been, without exception, sane and respectful, it is in the best interests of (and the rules of) the board to keep this thread and the entire board within those no-politics guidelines.

Thanks.

[Magnanimous 4,420]

[HoosierHoopster 6,503]

5 hours ago, Magnanimous said:

 

I can’t believe you posted a clip of @Stuhoo

[Stuhoo 77,862]

7 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I can’t believe you posted a clip of @Stuhoo

I have waaay less hair 

[Golfman25 4,859]

14 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Did the decisions she made prevent the protests or stop the disruption?

Attempting to silence dissension doesn’t stop it and often has the opposite effect.  Anyway, protests exist and if the protestors break the law there are consequences.  I don’t see any issue with protesting nor an issue with enforcing any laws that are broken by protestors.  

These are always tough issues as there are rights in conflict.  The right to protest vs the right not to be threatened.   These issue where addressed in 1977 with the Skokie IL vs Nazi cases.  Since that time, the pendulum seems to have swung away from free speech.

Now I am not getting the issue with the tents.  Not only at IU but several other schools.  What’s with the tents. I know back in my day they had a “shanty town” set up in Dunn Meadow to protest apartheid.  Every so often it would get knocked over by dudes who had a few too many at Kilroys.  

[RaceToTheTop 24,525]

11 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

These are always tough issues as there are rights in conflict.  The right to protest vs the right not to be threatened.   These issue where addressed in 1977 with the Skokie IL vs Nazi cases.  Since that time, the pendulum seems to have swung away from free speech.

Now I am not getting the issue with the tents.  Not only at IU but several other schools.  What’s with the tents. I know back in my day they had a “shanty town” set up in Dunn Meadow to protest apartheid.  Every so often it would get knocked over by dudes who had a few too many at Kilroys.  

My point was that the right to protest v right not to be threatened are not diametrically opposed — one should not assume that a protest leads to threats. IF that speech exceeds its boundaries, it should be dealt with.  To be it’s synonymous with starting with presumption of innocence until shown otherwise.  Good discussion going on here IMO as that isn’t always the case on hot button issues.

PS:  I hate Illinois Nazis.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,771]

16 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

They are arresting people now.  There was a reason Whitten made some of the decisions she did.  Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

these people gotta get real jobs ... that is an absolute nerd convention

[Stuhoo 77,862]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

These are always tough issues as there are rights in conflict.  The right to protest vs the right not to be threatened.   These issue where addressed in 1977 with the Skokie IL vs Nazi cases.  Since that time, the pendulum seems to have swung away from free speech.

Now I am not getting the issue with the tents.  Not only at IU but several other schools.  What’s with the tents. I know back in my day they had a “shanty town” set up in Dunn Meadow to protest apartheid.  Every so often it would get knocked over by dudes who had a few too many at Kilroys.  

There's generally legal authority to prevent people from setting up their own personal housing area on property that is not their own. Your post is so, so good; the balancing test of allowing for public, peaceful protest vs an at times competing interest in providing public access to public spaces, preventing and addressing hate speech, and pre-empting violence.

For me? The ISP making announcements hours before any action describing the rules is good and necessary. The vast majority of (maybe entire) cadre of officers that did their jobs effectively and efficiently are heroes for me. As for the protesters? Giving them attention for those interested is fine, but for those who are hoping that they'll go away? Giving them attention is counter-productive.

[AKHoosier 6,654]

Anyone see the video of a police sniper on the roof of an IU building? Saw it on X this morning.

It looked like Ballantine Hall, not 100% sure though.

[gohoosiers97 50]

I think the police sniper was on the Union.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,484]

6 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Anyone see the video of a police sniper on the roof of an IU building? Saw it on X this morning.

It looked like Ballantine Hall, not 100% sure though.

I assume it's protocol. Maybe not even to shoot, but for observation from a high point. But just get some binoculars.

[Stuhoo 77,862]

18 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I assume it's protocol. Maybe not even to shoot, but for observation from a high point. But just get some binoculars.

With a law enforcement background, "police sniper" broadly means a highly trained officer with a high-tech rifle that is in a position to accurately exercise deadly force on a distant target. And that option is (hopefully) solely exercised when there is a credible threat of its necessity.

Btw... I saw the same one picture shared by a bunch of Twitter handles. That is not especially reliable; could be  a real photo but might not be a real photo..

[HoosierHoopster 6,503]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I have waaay less hair 

Growing up, I had these bangs that hung over my forehead.

To this day, every now and then I'll sweep them back with my left hand. Only, well, there aren''t any bangs now....

[Stuhoo 77,862]

8 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Growing up, I had these bangs that hung over my forehead.

To this day, every now and then I'll sweep them back with my left hand. Only, well, there aren''t any bangs now....

An idea - converting this into the "where did my hair go?" thread could prove much less volatile.

[HoosierAloha 30,020]

https://bloomingtonian.com/2024/04/26/letter-from-whitten-to-faculty-after-arrests-of-protesters-at-indiana-university/

Dear Faculty Colleagues,

Since October 7th, we have successfully hosted dozens of rallies, protests and educational dialogues concerning highly controversial and deeply personal opinions regarding the events in the Middle East. Today there was a protest in Dunn Meadow that required us to balance our commitment to free speech activities with the need to ensure safety and security for our campus community.

As an institution that vigorously upholds free speech, we actively protect the free and civil exchange of ideas, including peaceful protest, as many participated in today.

Yesterday we became aware that a student group had announced a planned rally in Dunn Meadow with internal and external groups seeking to occupy the university space indefinitely through erection of tents and stockpiling of provisions for multiple days. In reviewing guidance from a 1969 Board of Trustees policy, there was a provision that stated that tents would need to be removed at 11 pm in compliance with university policy that prohibits overnight campus ground occupation. This same policy includes a clear provision that the provost can pull together an ad hoc committee at any time to address specific changes that may be needed to the policy. Last night, the provost charged this committee to make recommendations that would best enable us to balance free speech and safety in the context of similar protests occurring nationally. The committee affirmed the right of peaceful protest, with the additional recommendation that temporary or permanent installation of structures in Dunn Meadow (including, but not limited to posters, tents, etc.) at any time must be approved in advance by the university and, if approved, adhere to the guidelines provided by the university.

The change was posted online and at Dunn Meadow this morning, and participants were told repeatedly that they were free to stay and protest, but that any tent would need to be dismantled. Given the expectation of a high number of external participants, Indiana State Police was brought in as a law enforcement partner. Once prohibited structures were removed, the protests continued peacefully and, in fact, are continuing at the time of this writing.

As we watched similar events unfold on numerous campuses around the country and prepared for today’s rally, we thoughtfully considered the best course of action for IU with the safety of our community being foundational to our decision. We know that not all will agree with the course of action, but this was made through careful deliberation. Our university must create space for meaningful dialogue, while ensuring that our campus is safe and welcoming to all, and that peaceful protest, as many experienced today, symbolizes our steadfastness to the free expression of ideas.

Sincerely,

Pamela Whitten, President of Indiana University
Rahul Shrivastav, Executive Vice President and Provost, IU Bloomington

 

[Golfman25 4,859]

3 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

My point was that the right to protest v right not to be threatened are not diametrically opposed — one should not assume that a protest leads to threats. IF that speech exceeds its boundaries, it should be dealt with.  To be it’s synonymous with starting with presumption of innocence until shown otherwise.  Good discussion going on here IMO as that isn’t always the case on hot button issues.

PS:  I hate Illinois Nazis.

True, but to someone of Jewish decent, isn't a dude dressed in a Nazi uniform threatening by definition?  Could be the same for other symbols?  Back in the day we had an 1 1/2 hour long debate about the Skokie case in my Con Law class.  It was interesting to say the least.  

Fun Fact:  The contractor who built my house was an extra in the Blue Brothers.  He was one of the guys who came out of the pond after Jake & Elwood drove thru.  :)  

[HoosierAloha 30,020]

The whole sniper on the roof is overblown (shocking I know). You do that for a number of reasons but mainly for over watch and situational awareness. I highly doubt a round was chambered and the clearance the sniper would need to actually fire a round would be ridiculous. On top of that, the sniper could be there to ensure the safety of the protestors. This isn't uncommon at large events like parades and concerts. (I know this isn't time to use logic and I should have an emotional response that either sniper = bad or sniper = good)

[Stuhoo 77,862]

11 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

The whole sniper on the roof is overblown (shocking I know). You do that for a number of reasons but mainly for over watch and situational awareness. I highly doubt a round was chambered and the clearance the sniper would need to actually fire a round would be ridiculous. On top of that, the sniper could be there to ensure the safety of the protestors. This isn't uncommon at large events like parades and concerts. (I know this isn't time to use logic and I should have an emotional response that either sniper = bad or sniper = good)

And that's assuming that the picture is real (it may be) and not photoshopped. I find it curious that in a protest full of cell phone cameras, only one picture has circulated.