A Case for Dusty May

[Chris007 43,200]

6 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

IU has three of the top 5 highest rated players in the B10. This has been the most miserable season in my 50+ years of IU fandom. It's less enjoyable than the early Crean years. If you can't construct a roster or develop the talent you do have, you don't have a chance. Throwing a bunch of highly rated players together like Woodson has done this year is going to result in a missed tournament. 

Highest rated out of high school?

[Alford Bailey 12,302]

Sampson is the best coach we’ve had since RMK and he won 70% of his games in the BIG 12 over 12 years. Still running a top 10 program.  We have to get a guy who’s proven he can win next time. Mid major guys are a crap shoot.

[IndyResident16 567]

6 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Highest rated out of high school?

Yes. There's three consensus 5* in the B10 coming out of high school. MM, Ware, and Xavier Booker at MSU. 

My post was in response to somebody that said player development or roster construction wasn't necessary and assembling the most talent was the essence of winning by the way. 

[Chris007 43,200]

1 minute ago, IndyResident16 said:

Yes. There's three consensus 5* in the B10 coming out of high school. MM, Ware, and Xavier Booker at MSU. 

Yes that makes sense.

[Chris007 43,200]

Should we be worried about Ohio State firing Holtman and hiring Dusty?

[Golfman25 4,862]

28 minutes ago, BleedCubbieBlue said:

I think you are only counting the players that transferred the previous year. There were 69 total transfers on last year's sweet sixteen teams.

Yeah I only went back a year.  Most people are only looking year to year saying “win now.”  Could you build a roster with 1 or 2 longer term transfers each year.  Sure.  But that’s closer to the high school recruit timeline, not acceptable to the “win now” crowd.  

[IndyResident16 567]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

Should we be worried about Ohio State firing Holtman and hiring Dusty?

I put Dusty in the same Tier B candidates as guys like Schertz or Shrews. IU will always be able to fall back on a Tier B candidates and to be honest I'm not so sure Dusty even leads the pack of that bunch.

I get strong Tom Crean vibes with Dusty. Think he's got an offensive system that could work here, just not sure about his ability to coach them up on the defensive end. FAU's defensive metrics are terrible this year and have fallen off a cliff. Pretty alarming considering he returns a veteran team that was nearly left intact from last season. He'd at least make IU basketball watchable again, not sure he'd ever sustain any kind of consistent success.

 

[Chris007 43,200]

1 minute ago, IndyResident16 said:

I put Dusty in the same Tier B candidates as guys like Schertz or Shrews. IU will always be able to fall back on a Tier B candidates and to be honest I'm not so sure Dusty even leads the pack of that bunch.

I get strong Tom Crean vibes with Dusty. Think he's got an offensive system that could work here, just not sure about his ability to coach them up on the defensive end. FAU's defensive metrics are terrible this year and have fallen off a cliff. Pretty alarming considering he returns a veteran team that was nearly left intact from last season. He'd at least make IU basketball watchable again, not sure he'd ever sustain any kind of consistent success.

 

From a personality standpoint, they are miles apart. I haven't been around Dusty in years but Crean drove me crazy with his personality. But I understand what your saying. 

[IndyResident16 567]

Just now, Chris007 said:

From a personality standpoint, they are miles apart. I haven't been around Dusty in years but Crean drove me crazy with his personality. But I understand what your saying. 

Yes that was purely from a coaching perspective. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,360]

35 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I share some of your concerns, but I would push back against 2 things: 

1) It doesn’t have to be a slow rebuild. We have pieces and with the portal, a good coach could be competitive next year.  
 

2) Getting a guy who can win big right away isn’t real indicative of anything. One of the weird quirks of sports is sometimes a coaching change gives an immediate uptick in success but the coach can’t sustain it.  
 

I’d think if May is the right guy he could retain Reneau, Cupps and crew and hopefully the Burger Boy. Grab at least one quality transfer guard.  And that should be the bones of a competitive B1G team and then build from there. 

Idk, I look at someone like Porter Moser (who some folks wanted when we hired Woodson). He was more “proven” that May is at this point. His first two years at Oklahoma he went 19-16 (7-11) and 15-17 (5-13). He’s got things going well right now in year 3, but it took multiple years. I would expect similar things from Dusty May. 

Mgbako and Reneau (don’t think Ware will be back regardless) are really the only two players on our team worth keeping, and I would expect both to leave if May became the coach. Same with McNeely. None of them have Indiana connections and could go anywhere. Why would they stick around to play for a random coach they know nothing about? 

[Bowhunter 2,692]

Let’s focus on next year. No point in talking about Woodson being gone after this season. It’s who we could lose in the 25 class not the 24. 

[IUrocker 2,140]

57 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Should we be worried about Ohio State firing Holtman and hiring Dusty?

If Dolson knew he wanted May and caught wind that Ohio State may try to go after him, do you think he’d try to get him after this season before it happened if that’s what it took? I guess that’s kinda hard to tell. Just thinking even though IU would be his dream job, being successful at a place like Ohio State could probably keep him there. 
This isn’t me hoping we move on from Woodson after this season. I mean if it happens then cool but if not I’m not gonna be upset. I’m certainly pulling for Woodson to get all he needs to make next year a successful one if he’s indeed here. 

[Chris007 43,200]

1 minute ago, IUrocker said:

If Dolson knew he wanted May and caught wind that Ohio State may try to go after him, do you think he’d try to get him after this season before it happened if that’s what it took? I guess that’s kinda hard to tell. Just thinking even though IU would be his dream job, being successful at a place like Ohio State could probably keep him there. 

Great question. I think there are a lot of moving parts. I'm not sure what the answer is. If Dusty is your top guy, then maybe but if he is just on your top 5 list, then hold on.

I honestly think IU is going to do everything they possibly can to keep Woodson for the 25 year because they don't want to pay or ask anyone for the 12 million. 

[IndyResident16 567]

4 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

If Dolson knew he wanted May and caught wind that Ohio State may try to go after him, do you think he’d try to get him after this season before it happened if that’s what it took? I guess that’s kinda hard to tell. Just thinking even though IU would be his dream job, being successful at a place like Ohio State could probably keep him there. 

Don't think you have to worry about Dusty May leaving for another B10 job. I'd keep an eye out on Miami and Larranaga inevitable retirement. 

[Uspshoosier 44,694]

11 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Great question. I think there are a lot of moving parts. I'm not sure what the answer is. If Dusty is your top guy, then maybe but if he is just on your top 5 list, then hold on.

I honestly think IU is going to do everything they possibly can to keep Woodson for the 25 year because they don't want to pay or ask anyone for the 12 million. 

A lot of Ohio St fans were upset that they didn’t move on from Matta earlier and get Archie before IU hired him.   Seemed they dodged a bullet.    Like you said there is no right answer and not 1 coach is guaranteed to work out or fail.   Roll the dice on the guy you want and go from there.    Whoever the next coach is some fans are going to be happy and other fans are going to mad.    Others will just roll with the punches and hope for the best 

[Chris007 43,200]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

The 3 names you mentioned were all spring additions. Not sure why everyone thinks it is crazy to assume there will be the same this year. 

There has been more top level talent brought in by Woody than any coach since Knight. The argument is he needs more volume and not quite as picky.. Seems like that is getting through as he hit the road last night. 
 

The assumption is he is too stubborn to change anything. The question becomes, what if he is willing to make a good amount of changes? Sometimes stubborn people need to learn lessons the hard way. 

Did it though? He hit the road to watch Tiller who might be 25, might be 24 but is a big man. 

I think he is trying harder in recruiting. Sisley said yesterday he's hearing a lot more from Woodson in the last couple of weeks. 

But it seems he's still stuck on big guys. 

[Chris007 43,200]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

Are you saying he didn’t stay to watch Daquan who played in the same gym right after? Not what I heard. 
 

he also hasn’t done this much. Went mid week recruiting, by himself, on the road. That is pretty telling to me.

I was told he didn't but I can't find any confirmation either way. 

[go iu bb 5,315]

19 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

No? Because Holtman is May.  Another lower major coach, went to a big school and failed. 

Obvious at this point you are a big fan. He really is a crap shoot this early on. May or may not work out.  Think it is little crazy to blow everything up again on a maybe. 

Holtmann coached at Butler after they joined the Big East. So not a "lower major", as you state. Even before that, Butler was a mid-major and not a low-major.

[Golfman25 4,862]

33 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I didn’t count those. That was a quote from 3 different articles. 

I also think you are discounting the impact of those avg of 2 transfers. In most cases, they are the story of the team. 

I understand why you would think that but I believe your opinion will change over time. 

Right, but the three different articles are a bit misleading.  Those 69 where apparently transfers over several years.  That is a big difference from "win now, use the portal."  

It is very likely that teams will have 1-2 transfers each year.  Good programs will have kids go pro earlier than expected - and will need to fill that hole.  Other kids will leave because they don't fit.  The portal makes it easier for kids to leave and easier to fill the open spots.  No problem.  But the idea that you're going to turn over your roster every year and "win now" is a pipe dream.  

[Uspshoosier 44,694]

17 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I was told he didn't but I can't find any confirmation either way. 

Woody going for the Ware, Malik, Sparks, Mgbako and Mcneeley lineup next year. lol.    Only half joking