IUBB vs Auburn (Atlanta, GA) | 12/9/2023 @ 2:00pm on ESPN2

[schoosier 3,649]

4 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

There were all kinds of guards in the portal. Woodson is going to need about three guards in this year's portal. Gunn and banks are not the future.

 

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Agree on Gunn. He will never be a good shooter and makes poor decisions like shooting early in the shot clock. Disagree on Banks only because of how he is used. He’s a slasher that needs to come off picks although I think he can be a good shooter with continued work.

[HoosierTrav 8,185]

6 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Woody saying he has to sub the way he does because he can’t play them 40 minutes is a choice as well.   This isn’t the NBA where they have to play back to backs and 3 out of 5 days or 4 in 7 days.  You play 2 games spread out through the week.   He needs to ask his buddy  Self next week how he played Harris 40 min against Missouri. 
 

Kansas starters minutes vs Missouri 

Harris-40

Adams-37

Dickinson-35

McCullar-39

Jackson(freshman)-26

no bench player played more then 8 minutes 

 

Edey played 37 mins for Purdue.  7’4 300 pound center played 37 min and lived 

I’ll die on this hill. Been saying it for years. Since the Zeller and Oladipo teams. We played our stars less mins than any other team in the country. Why do we constantly get coaches who prefer hockey style lineups. The best college teams have lineups of 7-8 guys max. 

[Scotty R 3,052]

You do realize TJD played like 37 mpg last year.

Actually TJD 35

JHS 34

[Golfman25 6,317]

2 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Pretty much everyone on here wanted a guard in the portal, so I wouldn't say it was hindsight.

Right, so did they.  But you didn't answer the "who" question.  Just throwing a scholarship at someone gets you Middle school Bob.  

[Golfman25 6,317]

2 hours ago, Hornsby said:

There were all kinds of guards in the portal. Woodson is going to need about three guards in this year's portal. Gunn and banks are not the future.

 

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"All kinds" that would have made a meaningful difference?  Who where willing to come to IU, vs. the other top schools that were looking at them?  Monday morning GMing is easy.  

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

6 hours ago, IU_FanClub said:

This staff does some things well but on the other hand has a ton of flaws that severely limit our ceiling. The most frustrating part is that a few of their bigger flaws are a really easy fix that they either don't see or refuse to implement. We would be in so much better of a spot if we were less picky in recruiting and did in game rotations that don't hang a bunch of bench guys out to dry for segments at a time while simultaneously getting the entire team out of rhythm. My main worry is that the stubborn nature Woody has shown is going to prevent him from doing what is necessary to take this program up a level.

I think that’s the main problem with CMW, I like him as a coach and he’s a true IU, but his stubbornness keeps getting in him way!!  This includes his sticking with certain players, sub rotations, utilizing the post too much instead have having a more balanced offense are examples of his stubbornness, IMO.  I don’t know this for sure but he was sticking with Galloway as the shooting guard because he worked hard on his shot and shot 46% so any shooting guard in the portal that was being recruited by us, was told that and that was why we didn’t land anyone, IMO

[Hoosier987 2,085]

3 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Right, so did they.  But you didn't answer the "who" question.  Just throwing a scholarship at someone gets you Middle school Bob.  

I don’t have a specific “who” for you…but we are Indiana basketball and despite our mediocrity the better part of 2 decades we’re still a top 20 program in the country with significant NIL. I assure you, there are a number of guards who would have crawled their way to Bloomington if given an opportunity that would’ve filled a significant need on this team…and that’s a fact.

[8bucks 7,146]

We had frustrations with Woody last year early in the season and then as the season wore on things started to click. I cannot remember how many games in this was but I remember posting about lacking confidence in him. 
 

One thing I came to appreciate after the RMK reflections on HH is that hiring Woody and restoring the Hoosier family may end up being the best reason to have hired him. If his peak is making the tournament 4/5 years but never make a deep run that is still a big jump from where we were and reuniting the Hoosier family (former players welcome back) may have to be enough in the short term. 

[Dave from Dayton 3,935]

25 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I think that’s the main problem with CMW, I like him as a coach and he’s a true IU, but his stubbornness keeps getting in him way!!  This includes his sticking with certain players, sub rotations, utilizing the post too much instead have having a more balanced offense are examples of his stubbornness, IMO.  I don’t know this for sure but he was sticking with Galloway as the shooting guard because he worked hard on his shot and shot 46% so any shooting guard in the portal that was being recruited by us, was told that and that was why we didn’t land anyone, IMO

I do not know if Coach Woodson is stubborn.  He could have an agenda that most posters do not see.  Not saying he does...for how would I know?  

I think that he could be trying to get the 2nd teamers to really blossom.  It has worked for Mac Mgbako.

As to Galloway, I do not understand how his skills have not been taken advantage of.  Run plays for him.  Maybe he wants it too much.  I do not blame Coach for sticking with him.  

There are things about recruiting, too.  Some of the Coach's strategy might just be longer term thinking than just this game.  Is he recruiting correctly by giving ten or eleven players ample time to show their stuff.  If I was recruited by Coach Woodson, and he said it was likely that I would get 2nd string action, then the fact that I could show my stuff during prime time for long stretches might just be the ticket.  

Still too early to give a verdict on the team and the coach.  

Regardless, it is way too early to say that the loss to Auburn and the loss to CT were anything more than...

Well, they were pretty horrible, weren't they?  

[Hornsby 3,559]

"All kinds" that would have made a meaningful difference?  Who where willing to come to IU, vs. the other top schools that were looking at them?  Monday morning GMing is easy.  

Everyday all summer on my phone new portal transfer names showed up daily and many were guards. I made this argument then also that we badly needed a guard . But Woodson made this roster so it's on him.

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[str8baller 6,768]

7 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Pearl let them loose on our guards and we didn’t have any answers.

Didn’t really have anything to do with Cupps or Leal (who barely played). We let every guard get loose because after a couple rotations we can’t defend the 3pt line. They hit their share over Cupps but got a ton in transition, off turnovers, and by basically just turning our defense into swiss cheese on the 3 point line.  
 

That happens almost every game, even when XJ plays. Happened last year against Arizona, Kansas, Iowa x2, NW, PSU, and Miami and Cupps wasn’t here and Leal never played. 

[Banksyrules 5,289]

7 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Didn’t really have anything to do with Cupps or Leal (who barely played). We let every guard get loose because after a couple rotations we can’t defend the 3pt line. They hit their share over Cupps but got a ton in transition, off turnovers, and by basically just turning our defense into swiss cheese on the 3 point line.  
 

That happens almost every game, even when XJ plays. Happened last year against Arizona, Kansas, Iowa x2, NW, PSU, and Miami and Cupps wasn’t here and Leal never played. 

Do you think we should keep things simple and go with a zone?

[str8baller 6,768]

1 hour ago, 8bucks said:

One thing I came to appreciate after the RMK reflections on HH is that hiring Woody and restoring the Hoosier family may end up being the best reason to have hired him. If his peak is making the tournament 4/5 years but never make a deep run that is still a big jump from where we were and reuniting the Hoosier family (former players welcome back) may have to be enough in the short term

I agree with that and think about it sometimes. Maybe it’s what is/was needed to close the loop on the Knight era/Post-Knight curse. There’s some cosmic poetry to him coming home, stabilizing a program spiraling down, and being able to have everyone united during RMK’s passing. There’s probably few better equipped to handle that than Woody. 
 

If that’s all that comes out of the Woody era, I’ll certainly look on his time here fondly. But having closed that loop, so to speak, we need to nail this succession plan. That’s true even if Woody continues to find some measure of success this year and next. He’s towards the end of his career, and IU needs to act like an elite program. 

[RaceToTheTop 29,243]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

Right, so did they.  But you didn't answer the "who" question.  Just throwing a scholarship at someone gets you Middle school Bob.  

I gave one name in this very thread and he was a guy that was likely not only obtainable but had a solid record of shooting the ball.  And I guarantee you that where he ended up is paying a fraction of the NIL money he would have gotten at IU.  IU never looked at him as an option.

And the bottom line is that it was pretty obvious that we needed backcourt help.  I am a Woodson defender in most cases, but he did fail in getting necessary guards in the portal.  And whether or I not I threw out options in the portal (people will back me up that I threw out tons of potential options as well as players I liked, some of which were under the radar.  But in the end it's not the job of fans to fill the scholarships.....the coaching staff has the resources to do so and didn't do it.  That was a failure on their part.

[str8baller 6,768]

18 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

Do you think we should keep things simple and go with a zone?

I’m not sure zones are all that simple, or at least they bring a new set of problems for everyone they solve. It was a nice wrinkle versus Lville, but they’re not very good.  

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

1 hour ago, Dave from Dayton said:

I do not know if Coach Woodson is stubborn.  He could have an agenda that most posters do not see.  Not saying he does...for how would I know?  

I think that he could be trying to get the 2nd teamers to really blossom.  It has worked for Mac Mgbako.

As to Galloway, I do not understand how his skills have not been taken advantage of.  Run plays for him.  Maybe he wants it too much.  I do not blame Coach for sticking with him.  

There are things about recruiting, too.  Some of the Coach's strategy might just be longer term thinking than just this game.  Is he recruiting correctly by giving ten or eleven players ample time to show their stuff.  If I was recruited by Coach Woodson, and he said it was likely that I would get 2nd string action, then the fact that I could show my stuff during prime time for long stretches might just be the ticket.  

Still too early to give a verdict on the team and the coach.  

Regardless, it is way too early to say that the loss to Auburn and the loss to CT were anything more than...

Well, they were pretty horrible, weren't they?  

Perhaps he does have this master plan but Right now it’s coming across that he is stuck in his ways and this appears to be looking like he’s stubborn.  I am a fan of developing his bench, but I think in these big games he has to either shorten his rotation or keep at least 2 or 3 starters on the floor at all times when he makes these subs. Quit putting in all 5 bench players at once, at least in games against UConn, Auburn, Kansas, etc…

[8bucks 7,146]

28 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I agree with that and think about it sometimes. Maybe it’s what is/was needed to close the loop on the Knight era/Post-Knight curse. There’s some cosmic poetry to him coming home, stabilizing a program spiraling down, and being able to have everyone united during RMK’s passing. There’s probably few better equipped to handle that than Woody. 
 

If that’s all that comes out of the Woody era, I’ll certainly look on his time here fondly. But having closed that loop, so to speak, we need to nail this succession plan. That’s true even if Woody continues to find some measure of success this year and next. He’s towards the end of his career, and IU needs to act like an elite program. 

Succession plan could be the most challenging part. Would Woody want to have one of his assistants take over?  Would we go IU guy again?  Could we go outside the program for a top coach and keep the history connected?  
 

Would be nice if Woody can find a way to deliver a really big year soon 

[Golfman25 6,317]

1 hour ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I gave one name in this very thread and he was a guy that was likely not only obtainable but had a solid record of shooting the ball.  And I guarantee you that where he ended up is paying a fraction of the NIL money he would have gotten at IU.  IU never looked at him as an option.

And the bottom line is that it was pretty obvious that we needed backcourt help.  I am a Woodson defender in most cases, but he did fail in getting necessary guards in the portal.  And whether or I not I threw out options in the portal (people will back me up that I threw out tons of potential options as well as players I liked, some of which were under the radar.  But in the end it's not the job of fans to fill the scholarships.....the coaching staff has the resources to do so and didn't do it.  That was a failure on their part.

A kid that is hitting 25% from 3 (and 0-12 against power 5 teams) for a team that can't hit a 3 itself  -- how does that help?  

I agree we need guards that can play.  My issue is it's not like you can order them from Amazon.  You have to find them, recruit them, and develop them.  And yes, Woody and the staff have not done a good job in that respect.  

[WayneFleekHoosier 50,186]

Succession plan could be the most challenging part. Would Woody want to have one of his assistants take over?  Would we go IU guy again?  Could we go outside the program for a top coach and keep the history connected?  
 
Would be nice if Woody can find a way to deliver a really big year soon 

I don’t think it will happen under Woody. Even if we get Queen with McNeeley, we will lose Ware and others. Mgbako, who knows what they’ll decide. No guard on our roster projects to be a top 10 type guard. We didn’t spend to buy a top 10 roster this off-season. Why would they next season? Then question marks if Woody can even get top 10 roster talent to do top 10 talent things. Year 3 projects to be similar to year 1. Year 2 was solid with TJD who was a borderline player of the year. I like that we are getting some good talent under Woody. But he needs more, clearly as the results are indicating.

I’d imagine Indiana wants Dusty May. Michael Lewis won’t have done enough yet. Dusty May sounds great at the surface but he won’t have the connections Woody has so recruiting will be different. The jump in level would be huge. It would be another shot at things. I think it’s a shot I’d be willing to take. But, who knows. Winning is hard. We can’t seem to find the magic formula.


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[IUFAN1976 4,320]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

I’m not sure zones are all that simple, or at least they bring a new set of problems for everyone they solve. It was a nice wrinkle versus Lville, but they’re not very good.  

I think maybe he should mix it up and play a combination of both.  Changing defense can confuse the offense at times, especially if you start out in a man to man then go zone on the same position or vise versa.  And playing a full court zone then dropping back in a zone should happen sometimes too