2024 (F) Kanon Catchings and Whatever

[RaceToTheTop 24,276]

8 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

That's an informed, excellent post. From the (limited) game film I've watched of Jacobsen, I agree that he can absolutely be a plus player for Puredoo, but maybe not so much this year. I feel like this year's Purdud team will not nearly approach the pre-season love they're getting, but that when Jacobsen and Harris are sophomores, combined with Smith as a senior they could be dangerous.

Or any of them could be gone if Purdue doesn't up their NIL game.  It's starting to happen to even teams that do have good NIL money.  Certainly happened to Duke this year.  Fact is that Catchings likely decommitted in good part because of NIL.

[RaceToTheTop 24,276]

9 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 

While I agree, and I think I was one of the earliest touting the size and skill of Edey on this board. The closest thing to a “unicorn” college basketball has seen in my years.

Here’s the rub. Painter is just great. He is. His track record since the Mizzou, Scott brothers era has been nothing short of miraculous.

Haarms, Haas, Swanigan, Williams, Edey just off the top of my head with zero research. All problems of different degrees. He let Ivey run the show (too much probably). Until Purdue isn’t good, I’m convinced they will be very good.

I think Loyer and Smith are overrated and I hope we see that this season but who knows. Colvin might make a huge jump. Heide is much better than expected. Just like Benter is and will be. Furst and Kaufman can both play. Upperclassmen now. Expecting both of them to be better. Really hope they fall flat on their face but with Painter settling into his system I just think they’ve earned trust.


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You did forget A.J. Hammons in there who might have had the most true basketball and least interest in basketball of his recentish bigs.  

2014-5:  Haas' freshman year.  Hammons was the established big there already and had started two years.

2017-18:  Haarms' freshman year.  Haas was now a senior and their established big.

2018-19:  Williams' freshman year.  Haarms was the starting big and had a year under his belt. 

2020-21:  Edey's freshman year.  Williams was a junior and was the established dominant big.

He has done well spacing the big men out so that the incoming freshman wouldn't have to shoulder the load.  With the upcoming group he has Berg, Jacobsen, and Burgess......so no one really established in the post.  Berg looks like a miss.  So I do see a very important difference there.  And they don't have an Ivey or a Carson Edwards who can carry the scoring load.  

I will say that I do REALLY like Brandon Smith's game but I can't see him being as successful without the easy dump off pass he had to Edey last year.  Loyer I don't think all that much of because while his shooting numbers were good he also came up very small in some key moments and if he isn't shooting well there really isn't anything else he can do.  

[TheWatShot 13,418]

17 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Or any of them could be gone if Purdue doesn't up their NIL game.  It's starting to happen to even teams that do have good NIL money.  Certainly happened to Duke this year.  Fact is that Catchings likely decommitted in good part because of NIL.

Nobody would be happier than me if NIL undercut Purdue's program and made them an afterthought in college basketball, but we thought it was the beginning of the end when they lost out on Nigel Pack two years ago and all they've done since then is continue to pull in talent and get stronger. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,276]

5 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Nobody would be happier than me if NIL undercut Purdue's program and made them an afterthought in college basketball, but we thought it was the beginning of the end when they lost out on Nigel Pack two years ago and all they've done since then is continue to pull in talent and get stronger. 

Simple question:  where do you think they would have finished in the Big Ten the past two seasons if Edey wasn't there?

[Scotty R 1,944]

11 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Simple question:  where do you think they would have finished in the Big Ten the past two seasons if Edey wasn't there?

Top 5

[IUFAN1976 2,434]

11 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Simple question:  where do you think they would have finished in the Big Ten the past two seasons if Edey wasn't there?

Middle of the pack, IMO.  Anywhere from 5-8, but no higher than 5.

[RaceToTheTop 24,276]

9 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Middle of the pack, IMO.  Anywhere from 5-8, but no higher than 5.

Just as a reminder, Wisconsin finished 5th in the Big Ten.  So let's say Purdue didn't have Edey and were a Wisconsin type of team last season.  Now, with Edey out of the equation, they are losing three players:  Lance Jones, Mason Gillis, and Ethan Morton.  If you are matching them up with Wisconsin, the best matches are Lance Jones = Max Klesmit, Mason Gillis = John Blackwell, and Ethan Morton = some back end rotation player.

So let's say that Wisconsin returned everyone from last year's roster but lost Klesmit, Blackwell, and a back end rotation guy.  Would anyone seriously consider that Wisconsin team a top 20 team?

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,673]

20 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Top 5

If so, wow our league sucks.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,370]

11 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Just as a reminder, Wisconsin finished 5th in the Big Ten.  So let's say Purdue didn't have Edey and were a Wisconsin type of team last season.  Now, with Edey out of the equation, they are losing three players:  Lance Jones, Mason Gillis, and Ethan Morton.  If you are matching them up with Wisconsin, the best matches are Lance Jones = Max Klesmit, Mason Gillis = John Blackwell, and Ethan Morton = some back end rotation player.

So let's say that Wisconsin returned everyone from last year's roster but lost Klesmit, Blackwell, and a back end rotation guy.  Would anyone seriously consider that Wisconsin team a top 20 team?

Except Purdue is returning the best point guard in the conference, a Top 5 SG, TKR who has had some big games as a 4th-5th option and the best coach in the conference.

[Stuhoo 76,753]

6 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Except Purdue is returning the best point guard in the conference, a Top 5 SG, TKR who has had some big games as a 4th-5th option and the best coach in the conference.

They got a different shooting guard? That'll help them a bunch - Loyer was so completely abused on the defensive end again last year that they had to take him out of late game situations. 

If they replaced him with a top 5 shooting guard in the conference they'll be dangerous, but without Edey they looked pretty mediocre even last year.

 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,673]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Except Purdue is returning the best point guard in the conference, a Top 5 SG, TKR who has had some big games as a 4th-5th option and the best coach in the conference.

Weak conference if the first two statements are true 

[Scotty R 1,944]

2 hours ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

If so, wow our league sucks.  

Everytime people think Purdue will fall off they never do. After Carson they said that and after Ivey the same thing. Two years ago nobody thought Edey would be as  good as he was but they came out and dominated early that year.

Also I already thought the conference has been down for awhile now. To me the more teams you put in the more diluted it becomes. You should realize when your second place team finishes 12-8 your conference is mediocre.

[8bucks 6,208]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

Everytime people think Purdue will fall off they never do. After Carson they said that and after Ivey the same thing. Two years ago nobody thought Edey would be as  good as he was but they came out and dominated early that year.

Also I already thought the conference has been down for awhile now. To me the more teams you put in the more diluted it becomes. You should realize when your second place team finishes 12-8 your conference is mediocre.

Believe it or not Dakich made a good point several years back and said that Painter needed to get back to recruiting Purdue guys.  Kids that were overlooked, chip on their shoulder, tough and willing to work hard type of guys.  He has largely done that and sprinkled in some higher end kids but Painter has been able to build a competitive culture there that has allowed him to sustain success.  Does not mean he wont swing and miss and have a drop off but I do not immediately count them out just because they lose Edey.

As for a watered down conference and 12-8 indicating mediocrity, i think a better measure should be post season success.  Winning percentage in the tournament would be part of that but having teams reach the elite 8/final 4 and championship games regularly (which I do not think we have had) is a better indicator.  

[Stuhoo 76,753]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

Every time people think Purdue Michigan/Wisconsin/Michigan State will fall off they never do. 

Teams fall off - None of the above-highlighted teams have been near the top of the conference the last few years.

I think Purdud will be a decent, top half of the conference team this year, mainly for me because I think Heide and Colvin will develop into plus players, but to think that with crap NIL they can stay at the very top? Possible, but not necessarily.

[HoosierHoopster 6,298]

29 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Teams fall off - None of the above-highlighted teams have been near the top of the conference the last few years.

I think Purdud will be a decent, top half of the conference team this year, mainly for me because I think Heide and Colvin will develop into plus players, but to think that with crap NIL they can stay at the very top? Possible, but not necessarily.

Agree. As @8bucks points out Painter has done a good job recruiting and developing Purdue guys. That will keep them relevant, and I don't think they're about to fall off a cliff just because Frankenstein is gone, but it's not going to keep them competing at the top of the conference. With NIL the way it is right now, IU and other teams should be at the top (though in IU's case imo that's going to turn on how our coaching situation works out).

[Scotty R 1,944]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Teams fall off - None of the above-highlighted teams have been near the top of the conference the last few years.

I think Purdud will be a decent, top half of the conference team this year, mainly for me because I think Heide and Colvin will develop into plus players, but to think that with crap NIL they can stay at the very top? Possible, but not necessarily.

I think it will be IU and PU fighting for 1st place this year. I still think team continuity and team chemistry is the key to winning over trying to buy a team every year.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,370]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

They got a different shooting guard? That'll help them a bunch - Loyer was so completely abused on the defensive end again last year that they had to take him out of late game situations. 

If they replaced him with a top 5 shooting guard in the conference they'll be dangerous, but without Edey they looked pretty mediocre even last year.

 

Conference isn't exactly strong at SG.

[Stuhoo 76,753]

Galloway, Carlyle, Meechie, Gayle, Ty Berry, Jaden Akins, Dix, tj Banba, Kern.

There ya go; nine that I’d take over Loyer. Hell, add Colvin from Purdump. He was already playing instead of Loyer for defense and he’s got a way higher ceiling.

[Hardwood83 4,576]

54 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I think it will be IU and PU fighting for 1st place this year. I still think team continuity and team chemistry is the key to winning over trying to buy a team every year.

 I agree with the second part for sure. Problem is I'm not sure that is realistic going forward. Purdue was the only team in the "conference" not to bring in a transfer this off-season. Meaning the other 94% of the B1G did. Continuity is gonna be a rarity, I'm afraid.   

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,370]

16 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Galloway, Carlyle, Meechie, Gayle, Ty Berry, Jaden Akins, Dix, tj Banba, Kern.

There ya go; nine that I’d take over Loyer. Hell, add Colvin from Purdump. He was already playing instead of Loyer for defense and he’s got a way higher ceiling.

And Loyer is the only one out of any of them that has won anything while also being good.