Put Tom Allen on the hot seat

[Hovadipo 52,784]

1 hour ago, Alford Bailey said:

Definitely should be on the hot seat. One of the worst teams in cfb and the team absolutely quit on him. Talent level still sucks too. No quick fix here.

Find it pretty hard to believe there's no "quick fix" in the transfer portal era. This seems a bit extreme.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,152]

12 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Find it pretty hard to believe there's no "quick fix" in the transfer portal era. This seems a bit extreme.

I not sure you can fully cover in the transfer portal... Has a team ever rebuilt a roster with 22 new starters from the transfer portal?

[Aaron 4,147]

Just now, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I not sure you can fully cover in the transfer portal... Has a team ever rebuilt a roster with 22 new starters from the transfer portal?

Michigan State did pretty close to that this year.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

27 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Find it pretty hard to believe there's no "quick fix" in the transfer portal era. This seems a bit extreme.

The opportunity to find a quick fix is certainly better in the transfer portal era. But if a kid has one year left (I know there are plenty of transfers who have multiple years of eligibility left), looking at IU football after last season vs. after this season is quite different. We had a lot to sell after last season. How many kids won't even give IU football a look now? So the opportunity for a quick fix seem significantly more difficult now. Plus I recall reading that Allen's philosophy on the portal was that he wasn't going to take anyone that didn't have some sort of previous relationship with a current player or coach, in order to protect the culture. Maybe I mis-interpreted something, but if that is true, he needs to sneak that policy into Sheridan's bags before he exits the building. 

[Hovadipo 52,784]

1 minute ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

The opportunity to find a quick fix is certainly better in the transfer portal era. But if a kid has one year left (I know there are plenty of transfers who have multiple years of eligibility left), looking at IU football after last season vs. after this season is quite different. We had a lot to sell after last season. How many kids won't even give IU football a look now? So the opportunity for a quick fix seem significantly more difficult now. Plus I recall reading that Allen's philosophy on the portal was that he wasn't going to take anyone that didn't have some sort of previous relationship with a current player or coach, in order to protect the culture. Maybe I mis-interpreted something, but if that is true, he needs to sneak that policy into Sheridan's bags before he exits the building. 

I think the philosophy can be interpreted pretty loosely, especially with your back against a wall coming off a 2-win dumpster fire campaign. All these coaches know each other so they'll ask someone they know if a kid is a turd or not. That was a lot more important last year with COVID keeping kids from visiting campus too.

I don't think this roster is in need of 16-18 new starters or anything. There are some pretty major holes to fill obviously (and more than just a couple if some of these guys that have the option to come back choose not to) but avoiding the injury bug and adding quality pieces in some key spots will really help. I mean, we're not going to quick fix our way to competing for the East, but you can portal and develop your way into 7 wins in one offseason. Good players were coming here before we had a few winning seasons and as annoying as some people think TA's culture is after a bad season, kids love it and him and they'll keep coming. Just really need to bring someone in on offense that will put them in the right spots.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

6 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

I think the philosophy can be interpreted pretty loosely, especially with your back against a wall coming off a 2-win dumpster fire campaign. All these coaches know each other so they'll ask someone they know if a kid is a turd or not. That was a lot more important last year with COVID keeping kids from visiting campus too.

I don't think this roster is in need of 16-18 new starters or anything. There are some pretty major holes to fill obviously (and more than just a couple if some of these guys that have the option to come back choose not to) but avoiding the injury bug and adding quality pieces in some key spots will really help. I mean, we're not going to quick fix our way to competing for the East, but you can portal and develop your way into 7 wins in one offseason. Good players were coming here before we had a few winning seasons and as annoying as some people think TA's culture is after a bad season, kids love it and him and they'll keep coming. Just really need to bring someone in on offense that will put them in the right spots.

Agreed. I think your last sentence is the most important piece. A solid OC could have done plenty with the talent we had this year. So bringing in someone with a track record to show kids we are recruiting will go a long way. I also agree that we don't need full turnover of starters. Bringing in 4-6 impact guys and fill in some depth beyond that, provided we make the right OC hire, could most definitely be the difference between another pile of doo-doo season or a bowl appearance. Especially if one of those impact players is a QB. :-)

[Hovadipo 52,784]

3 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Agreed. I think your last sentence is the most important piece. A solid OC could have done plenty with the talent we had this year. So bringing in someone with a track record to show kids we are recruiting will go a long way. I also agree that we don't need full turnover of starters. Bringing in 4-6 impact guys and fill in some depth beyond that, provided we make the right OC hire, could most definitely be the difference between another pile of doo-doo season or a bowl appearance. Especially if one of those impact players is a QB. :-)

Another thing we should wait and see on with the new OC is the OL dilemma. Like I said the other day, Hiller and Allen go way back and that might not be a firing he's ready to make, but on the other hand he could just be waiting to hire an OC and let that hire have some say in the offensive staff. If we are to keep Hiller, right or wrong, I just hope people remember that Kalen DeBoer - though he is an absolute offensive savant on another level from most OCs - was more than capable of running a really good offense with a few of the same OL pieces despite whatever Hiller is. Sheridan and his scheme were not able to mask that. And I also think there are some really good young pieces on the line that weren't ever going to be ready this year. Sales from Brownsburg and Khalil Benson should give us more options going into '22. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

39 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Another thing we should wait and see on with the new OC is the OL dilemma. Like I said the other day, Hiller and Allen go way back and that might not be a firing he's ready to make, but on the other hand he could just be waiting to hire an OC and let that hire have some say in the offensive staff. If we are to keep Hiller, right or wrong, I just hope people remember that Kalen DeBoer - though he is an absolute offensive savant on another level from most OCs - was more than capable of running a really good offense with a few of the same OL pieces despite whatever Hiller is. Sheridan and his scheme were not able to mask that. And I also think there are some really good young pieces on the line that weren't ever going to be ready this year. Sales from Brownsburg and Khalil Benson should give us more options going into '22. 

Are you just trying to get me to pump you up today? B/c again I.....totally agree! It was disturbing to see the incremental drop off of the O-line performance the past 2 seasons. I really hope your notion is correct that Allen would let the new OC have some serious input there. Hell if I was interviewing for the OC job, I'd make it a requirement for me to be able to can Hiller or I wouldn't even be interested in the job. 

[Alford Bailey 12,217]

This roster absolutely needs 12-15 new big ten quality starters. We have a couple 12th ranked recruiting classes to pull from. A few nice players to build around not a roster with just a couple holes to fill.

[Hoosierfan2017 19,845]

We need to replace basically all our skills players on offense. We need a new qb. We need a new RB. We need new wide receivers. We need new tight ends to replace Hendershot. Seems unlikely that we’ll be able to do all that in one offseason but I guess we’ll find out. 

[Hovadipo 52,784]

The recruiting class ranking being the argument here doesn’t hold much weight imo. When you’re an average class rating of about 2 points from having the 4th-7th ranked class in the conference, it’s more about putting the players in right positions than getting the right players. McFadden, one of the 10 best IU players in my lifetime, was pretty much unranked. There are players on this roster and more coming, they just need to be put in better position to succeed. 

[DChoosier 7,053]

3 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

We need to replace basically all our skills players on offense. We need a new qb. We need a new RB. We need new wide receivers. We need new tight ends to replace Hendershot. Seems unlikely that we’ll be able to do all that in one offseason but I guess we’ll find out. 

Not to mention the OL.
 

It’s rather astonishing how the O fell off the cliff. I realize our QB injuries were a big reason (and having a poor OL) but at this point what is the outlook (after injuries heal) for QB, RB, OL, etc next year? Not real good. We need to get some portal wins.

[Scot 40]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:10 PM, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Before I begin, yes, I’m aware that Allen is here for years to come because our lovely administration gave him a king’s ransom. Maybe this will be a jinx thread like my Fire Tom Allen thread. 

Allen has been the head coach for five full seasons now. He inherited a program in pretty good shape (for IU), going to back to back bowl games before he took over. His fifth season is now over, and we are the worst team in the Big Ten. We like to blame our division, but we were blown out by Rutgers, Purdue, and Minnesota this year. We returned the vast majority of last year’s starters and had the worst season in a decade. Winless in the conference, and winless against the P5.

After five years, Allen is 26-32, and 15-28 in the conference. We’ve missed a bowl game three out of five years. Some give the covid year more credit than others. However much you give it, we were 6-1 in the conference that year, 9-27 in the conference during the four normal seasons. For all the talk about his recruiting, our 2021 class was 12th in the conference, and the 2020 class was too. We’ll see how many 2022 guys stick with IU. 

We have so many things to fix next season. Give Allen next year to fix them. If we have another year like this year, well…

These contracts come standard MINUS one item.  A MINIMAL performance clause.

[Chris007 41,728]

So what I'm hearing is Allen had to take the pay cut to raise the money for Sheridan to be fired because the athletic department doesn't have any money & no donors want to step up to help get rid of assistants. We don't have the money to buy out Hiller $800K and pay the new person. Whoever the new OC is, he will have to work with the current assistants. Hopefully, that is bad info but doesn't sound good. It's like trying to get someone to buy a new car before telling them it needs a new engine. Allen got all of these assistants' new contracts either last year or two years ago, then got a big raise himself and now we have no money to make any changes. Do all assistants get multi-year deals on CFB? 

[IUc2016 6,856]

46 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

So what I'm hearing is Allen had to take the pay cut to raise the money for Sheridan to be fired because the athletic department doesn't have any money & no donors want to step up to help get rid of assistants. We don't have the money to buy out Hiller $800K and pay the new person. Whoever the new OC is, he will have to work with the current assistants. Hopefully, that is bad info but doesn't sound good. It's like trying to get someone to buy a new car before telling them it needs a new engine. Allen got all of these assistants' new contracts either last year or two years ago, then got a big raise himself and now we have no money to make any changes. Do all assistants get multi-year deals on CFB? 

I think this is pretty clear. Only reason why he would have to take the pay cut is so they could pay Sheridan off. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,845]

Yikes. Allen got almost $2.5 million per win this year so don’t care that he had to take a paycut, but big yikes if we’re stuck with the rest of the assistants and can only afford a new OC. 

[Chris007 41,728]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Yikes. Allen got almost $2.5 million per win this year so don’t care that he had to take a paycut, but big yikes if we’re stuck with the rest of the assistants and can only afford a new OC. 

Then try to hire an OC who has to make it work with what we got. I mean a new scheme can help the blocking some but just doesn't seem like we're in a good situation. 

[Stuhoo 75,377]

 

Hire an OC with OL coaching background.

 

[Hovadipo 52,784]

I won't be shocked if Frye is the OC hire. He has a relationship with the staff.

[Hoosierfan2017 19,845]

23 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Then try to hire an OC who has to make it work with what we got. I mean a new scheme can help the blocking some but just doesn't seem like we're in a good situation. 

For real. Basically “hey you won’t get to pick your assistants but come here and try to revive a really bad offense with the coaches who were all here for that really bad offense.” Not the ideal job posting. Do you know how much we can pay the new OC?