IUBB vs Marshall - 11/27/21 @ 7:00 on BTN

[Uspshoosier]

5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’m curious for examples of teams are elite and start 4 stars as freshmen consistently 

Depends on your definition of elite but Houston has started 3 star freshman and 4 Star kids and they have been successful.

Wichita St had started non 5 star freshman during the Marshall years and he was consistently successful    2 of those non 5 star starters found their way into the NBA and one is a borderline all star this I believe  

Nova has a culture where they recruit high 5 stars and anything else  and will start the one that proves themself    
They are probably the best example of recruiting to your culture     In 2018 they had a top recruiting class with Slater, Quinerly and Swider.   Quinerly was the high 5 star that was suppose to come in and start     The after thought of that class was seddic bey who decommitted from NC state signed with Nova late in the recruiting calendar    He was the lowest rated in that class 3 star(137) that ended up starting 29-36 games his freshman year and went pro after his sophomore year     Quinerly couldn’t get off the bench his freshman year and transferred    
there is talent everywhere 5,4,3 star, hopefully the team you are invested in has a staff that can evaluate that talent and recruit accordingly 

 

[Brass Cannon]

53 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

There are no certainties in predicting player draft likelihood generally and with a guy like TJD who hasn’t been projected - yet - it’s an open question. However, if he shows shooting and off-hand development over the season I’d be willing to bet money on it, and i’m not a betting guy. 
 

It’s easy and hindsight to say hey Cody was a first rounder etc, but that’s not the point - the point i made was that the same things were said, repeatedly, about him and the others — game doesn’t translate to the NBA, not athletic enough, etc. each had weaknesses in their game that made the move questionable (and Yogi only stayed all 4 because he had no shot at being drafted).
TJD is a consistent jumper / strong workout away from being drafted. He’s a dominant mobile big. Woodson will give him - as he has - the feedback he needs, and i’d bank on him shooting more as the season goes forward 

The same comments may have been said but cody  was on mock drafts.  Those guys left knowing they would be first round picks 

[Brass Cannon]

53 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Depends on your definition of elite but Houston has started 3 star freshman and 4 Star kids and they have been successful.

Wichita St had started non 5 star freshman during the Marshall years and he was consistently successful    2 of those non 5 star starters found their way into the NBA and one is a borderline all star this I believe  

Nova has a culture where they recruit high 5 stars and anything else  and will start the one that proves themself    
They are probably the best example of recruiting to your culture     In 2018 they had a top recruiting class with Slater, Quinerly and Swider.   Quinerly was the high 5 star that was suppose to come in and start     The after thought of that class was seddic bey who decommitted from NC state signed with Nova late in the recruiting calendar    He was the lowest rated in that class 3 star(137) that ended up starting 29-36 games his freshman year and went pro after his sophomore year     Quinerly couldn’t get off the bench his freshman year and transferred    
there is talent everywhere 5,4,3 star, hopefully the team you are invested in has a staff that can evaluate that talent and recruit accordingly 

 

During Novas 2 NC runs they started exactly two freshmen for 10 games or more and both were 5 star recruits.  

[Uspshoosier]

5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

During Novas 2 NC runs they started exactly two freshmen for 10 games or more and both were 5 star recruits.  

I know I watched the games.   They also started 4 Star and 3 Star freshman in other years where they were still considered elite 

[HoosierHoopster]

15 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

The same comments may have been said but cody  was on mock drafts.  Those guys left knowing they would be first round picks 

And the question is whether TJD can improve his stock by showing more shooting, developing off hand and having good workouts. He has started off the year well, it’s still November 

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Jonathan Givony:  Ten dunks for Indiana's Trayce Jackson-Davis yesterday in a win over Marshall. Finished with 43 points on just 24 shots. No player has ever recorded more dunks in a single game in the NCAA play by play, era dating back to 2010.

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Jonathan Givony:  Ten dunks for Indiana's Trayce Jackson-Davis yesterday in a win over Marshall. Finished with 43 points on just 24 shots. No player has ever recorded more dunks in a single game in the NCAA play by play, era dating back to 2010.

Ok that’s freaking impressive 

[Brass Cannon]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Jonathan Givony:  Ten dunks for Indiana's Trayce Jackson-Davis yesterday in a win over Marshall. Finished with 43 points on just 24 shots. No player has ever recorded more dunks in a single game in the NCAA play by play, era dating back to 2010.

That’s pretty crazy.  

[RaceToTheTop]

3 hours ago, Hardwood83 said:

I hope he does. I make no claim of being an NBA guru or scouting savant, just a casual observation that a 6'9" back to the basket guy with very good, but not incredible athleticism, doesn't scream "NBA!" to me. Has improved his right hand some, now will he develop a consistent outside shot? Will it be enough to get drafted? Let's hope so. 

The NBA is certainly different than it used to be.  Decently athletic undersized bigs have a chance to make it while the seven foot bangers are less desired.

One thing in his favor is TJD runs the court very well.

[RaceToTheTop]

8 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

The same comments may have been said but cody  was on mock drafts.  Those guys left knowing they would be first round picks 

I wonder in today’s NBA where Cody would fall in mock drafts based on his skill set.

[Trish]

20 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Some other guys this was often said about:

Cody

Bryant 

OG

could also add Yogi, who though he’s no longer in the League played his way in and made it and did well in Dallas then made a bad bet on Sacto. Troy was in for a spell too.

TJD should continue to develop the off hand, and jumper. He already has shown about everything else he needs to make it. Not yet first round, shooting could get him there. 

I don’t think he stays another season, if he continues to excel his ability to improve his draft stock in another season drops away. Working out for teams under the new draft rules will tell him a lot.

 

One thing is pretty certain— Woodson is right there to give good advice, with the NBA experience and connections. And it was largely Woodson pointing out his areas of weakness and what he needed to improve that brought him back for this season.

 

Cody and Victor were in an extremely weak draft class, that helped their draft stock along with their skill sets at the time. NBA drafts on potential for the most part, which explains why OG and Bryant were drafted, they each had the physical bodies to compete on the next level and the room for growth. Zeller has been able to survive in the league because of his IQ and his athletic ability. I'd argue Cody was / is more athletic than TJD. Cody has shown the ability to defend in the league, crash boards, and be a solid PnR defender in the NBA.

Morgan made it to the NBA because of his work ethic, IQ, and his ability to defend multiple positions while shooting the 3 ball. 

TJD will be in the NBA. He's not a rotational player, but he'll crack a G-League roster. He has areas to grow in like defending more than one position and his shooting but he's shown to be improved with using his right hand more often than his last two years which was a huge concern about him. 

I could see TJD returning next year in hopes of having an even stronger roster and a chance to make a run. 

[Brass Cannon]

11 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

I wonder in today’s NBA where Cody would fall in mock drafts based on his skill set.

I’m not sure.  He seemed to have a better perimeter shot unless that’s my crimson colored glasses.  Could see him being a first rounder still in a weak class but honesty not sure. 

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, Trish said:

Cody and Victor were in an extremely weak draft class, that helped their draft stock along with their skill sets at the time. NBA drafts on potential for the most part, which explains why OG and Bryant were drafted, they each had the physical bodies to compete on the next level and the room for growth. Zeller has been able to survive in the league because of his IQ and his athletic ability. I'd argue Cody was / is more athletic than TJD. Cody has shown the ability to defend in the league, crash boards, and be a solid PnR defender in the NBA.

Morgan made it to the NBA because of his work ethic, IQ, and his ability to defend multiple positions while shooting the 3 ball. 

TJD will be in the NBA. He's not a rotational player, but he'll crack a G-League roster. He has areas to grow in like defending more than one position and his shooting but he's shown to be improved with using his right hand more often than his last two years which was a huge concern about him. 

I could see TJD returning next year in hopes of having an even stronger roster and a chance to make a run. 

Largely agree. The NBA scouts / drafts on potential / upside / athleticism and demonstrated ability, and team workouts go a long way, but the well-rounded big that excels at the college level (e.g., Morgan) often will have a place / role depending on team needs at the time of the draft and over the summer.

TJD is killing it, the crazy 10 blocks and his extreme high-level scoring doesn't go unnoticed. He has holes in his game, he is not an elite athlete, he hasn't shown any level of consistent shooting (but he has started to show shooting this season), and we all know the off-hand has been a development need. 

I wouldn't under-sell Cody and Vic though. That class wasn't the strongest, but besides their both going in the top 5, Vic went on to be an all star and both have carved out long, successful NBA careers, Cody as a strong role player. TJD has the tools, skill, motor and size to carve out a role player career in the NBA, imo. No I don't think he's a first-rounder at this point, but yes I'd be surprised if he's not in the League whether it's after this season or the next.

[RaceToTheTop]

13 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’m not sure.  He seemed to have a better perimeter shot unless that’s my crimson colored glasses.  Could see him being a first rounder still in a weak class but honesty not sure. 

Goga Bidaztke was a first round pick so I’m positive zeller would be now as well. Probably somewhere around 10.  He’s been a 9 and 6 type of center and there is value in that.

[RaceToTheTop]

I will say that while Bryant is a better shooter than TJD is at the same point, TJD runs the court better. Bryant was a very stiff and upright runner.

[yogisballin]

Where did I say I thought that?  I said it’s what we need. 

It would sure be nice if we could get that production from LD. I don’t believe we are going to get a whole lot out of Big Mike


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[RaceToTheTop]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:29 PM, Uspshoosier said:

There isn’t 1 answer or formula to become successful.  Plenty of examples of successful teams that evaluate non 5 stars and they fit right into their team as starters.  Also plenty examples where that formula doesn’t work for certain teams.  Plenty of different ways of building a successful program.  We shall see what way IU goes.  Their recruiting can give you a little insight though.  They recruited Clowney hard and wanted him really bad.  He was borderline top 100 kid that they  were wanting to come in and play right away.   Plenty of talent that can start everywhere 5,4,3 Star, transfer and international you just got to hope whoever they go after that the staff evaluates the recruits properly that fit the staffs culture they are wanting to create  

Robbie Hummel, Scott Martin, E'Twuan Moore....I don't believe any were five stars yet started right away on a pretty damn good Purdue team.  (edit:  I checked the 247 site and they were all listed as 4 stars.  E'Twuan might have been a five star on a couple of services -- he was ranked just outside of 5 star range by 247)