What Can IUBB do to Revive Your Excitement/Confidence?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

46 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

And THIS is your answer. The fact we all anticipate this debate AGAIN next year means we aren’t a top level team. Simple as that. Winning quiets critics, and Archie hasn’t done it, isn’t doing it, and doesn’t project to do it.

As a fan as it pertains to this discussion it boils down to expectations. The reactions directly relate to expectations. Then it becomes, what expectations are reasonable for Archie in year 4-5?

I want to be an elite, type team. Top 4 in conference. Consistently top 25. It appears me and others have unrealistic expectations for Indiana Basketball.


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And I believe we have showed up in 5 AP Top 25 polls under Archie. We are coming up on 2 years since our appearance. That's beyond unacceptable. 

[Josh 12,639]

This thread seems like weird timing, because I thoroughly enjoyed our game against FSU minus the final score.  But it is certainly valid.

We're seeing many of the same issues with this team as we did Archie's first team.  Poor shooting, stagnant offense, poor guard play.  We were told these things would disappear when Archie got his own players.  Well, here we are and they haven't disappeared.  

This is who Archie's teams are.

But trust me, it can get better with a better coach.  We're not stuck in mediocrity.  Yes, there are good coaches who would like to coach here.  Yes, we will eventually get a hire right.  The future is bright, we just need to remove the loser's mentality and try to be great again.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

We're seeing many of the same issues with this team as we did Archie's first team.  Poor shooting, stagnant offense, poor guard play. 

In the FSU loss, we endured stretches where the offense went away from what was actually working, attacking.  There was a period in the first half where we jacked up quick threes.  That is not our game.  If instead of taking these threes we would have continued to attack we would have been tied or went ahead but we had to chuck from deep.

I would really love to see what we would be saying about this team if the players shot KNOWING they were going to make it instead of hoping it doesn't clank off the rim.  Our shooting mentality is absolutely atrocious and it shows.

[bigrod 2,871]

I think we have a long way to go before we say we are no better than last year. Having said that, I too am tired of seeing some things that are consistent issues every year. This is kind of where we are though. I do think the administration is not doing the coach any favors, but it does seem to be a tough argument when the football team has the same administration, and they have managed to build on success year after year. Maybe I'm being over simplistic.

There is no way I would say the writing is on the wall though. I don't see a change made after this year unless it just totally falls apart. As much as I want to see the basketball team return to the elite status, I don't think I want a change made at this point. What coach would want to come here knowing they have 3-4 years or they are out? I'm afraid we have to see a few more years of mediocrity before a change is made. Or better yet, maybe we start seeing him build on success and its a moot point.

[JSHoosier 20,204]

2 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

This is exactly where Indiana should be. I’ll take it a step further and say I expect to compete for conference championships and national championships each year as well. There’s no reason this program can’t get back to that

These should be the expectations.  This is what a coach is paid millions to do at this level.

[Hoosier Guy 7,529]

2 hours ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

 

And this is to USPS's point... so many different states of mind tat everybody has their own answer.

Elite for 1 guy is Top 4 in Conference and consistently in Top 25

Elite for 1 guy is Conference Champion & National Championships

And to me it sounds (sorry if I am off here) that both agree Archie is not the guy, or the writing is on the wall, or whatever....

But to me this is a very big distinction... if you want to be Elite for the 1st scenario I believe Archie is there... knocking on the door and not going away.... if you want to be what the 2nd person says is elite then we obviously have a long way to go. I personally think we are heading in the right direction, I like the SLOW process, I don't want to be a 1 year explosion and then disappear again. Archie is recruiting the right guys, they are getting better every year both individually and as a team... the writing is on the wall for a contract extension!

Never did I say there was writing on the wall. I still think Archie can get this program back to the upper echelon of the sport. A lot has to be shown this season though

[Bowhunter 2,693]

I say this every year. You have to have the horses to win the race!


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[Golfman25 5,373]

16 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I think we’ve pretty much accepted who we are long ago. Archie and staff are trying really hard make it work.

He’s competitive and he hates to lose, but he’s a good coach and not a great coach. He’s a good recruiter, not a great recruiter.

We seem destined to be a “good” team and not a great team. We aren’t building any dynasties, that’s for certain.

Illinois shows how to build a powerhouse rather quickly. We are TJD and some dudes. Illinois rolls 3 legit studs out there and boom.

All Archie needs to do is find a way to get 3 studs on the roster at a given time. LeBron has repeated this formula over and over. Archie’s trying to win games like Wisconsin, with older, tougher teams.

Idk, I’m just underwhelmed with his coaching and recruiting.

Call it 2020, call it whatever, but the crappy results continue to be less painful each year. I’ll watch every game we play this season and enjoy it regardless, but knowing we are a 20-40 type team at best with ceiling takes all the excitement away.




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Here's the thing.  When you hire these mid major guys, or any young coach for that matter, they have to be willing to grow and adapt to the Big Time.  That means the things that brought you success previously may not bring you success in the future.  You can survive in the mid majors with playing only one side of the ball.  You have to play both sides in the Big Time.  The problem with Archie is I don't see him growing or adapting (but I'll let this season play out).  Heck, even Shaka Smart grew hair.  :)  

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,321]

Here's the thing.  When you hire these mid major guys, or any young coach for that matter, they have to be willing to grow and adapt to the Big Time.  That means the things that brought you success previously may not bring you success in the future.  You can survive in the mid majors with playing only one side of the ball.  You have to play both sides in the Big Time.  The problem with Archie is I don't see him growing or adapting (but I'll let this season play out).  Heck, even Shaka Smart grew hair.  :)  

Plugs?

Archie is working hard. It’s not the effort I doubt. I kinda like everything about him besides the product on the court.



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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

4 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Plugs?

Archie is working hard. It’s not the effort I doubt. I kinda like everything about him besides the product on the court.



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He could definitely be a bit more charismatic. Smile and laugh a little. I guess he will fit in well when the robots take over. 

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

1 hour ago, Hoosier Guy said:

Never did I say there was writing on the wall. I still think Archie can get this program back to the upper echelon of the sport. A lot has to be shown this season though

My bad... that was why I cautioned that I may be off on that....

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

Just now, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

He could definitely be a bit more charismatic. Smile and laugh a little. I guess he will fit in well when the robots take over. 

Really?

This is how you lose credibility in a conversation... make some valid points, have a good discussion... try something different to get your point across (although we have all heard it a thousand times in every thread)....

But stoop to this?

I am not going to go back and do any searching whatsoever, but I would be willing to wager that you disliked Crean's antics, clapping, signs, etc....

But now Archie would be better if he did more of those things.... C'mon.

 

Maybe its just me, but I LOVE Archie's all business attitude..... When (if - for you) we start winning consistently and get into the upper echelon and he begins to loosen up, party it up in the locker room after a big win, show some emotion (a la Tom Allen) then great... but now he is in the business end of making us Great/Relevant/BACK again.... keep grinding.

[TheWatShot 13,972]

This may be for a different discussion, or maybe it would actually fit in here. 

 

Do we have any real evidence of the administration handicapping the men's basketball program in any way?

 

Our football and women's basketball programs have terrible histories, but are currently achieving high levels of success rarely, and in some cases never seen here before. What kind of conditions would allow those programs to thrive, while causing our flagship program to suffer? 

[cthomas 6,428]

5 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

This reminds me of your favorite 45 rpm that you played so much it developed a (skip) developed a (skip) developed a (skip)......

As someone who has actually experienced what you're talking about, I appreciate the analogy. Now let the gnashing of teeth continue.

[jonz44 810]

3 hours ago, bigrod said:

I think we have a long way to go before we say we are no better than last year. Having said that, I too am tired of seeing some things that are consistent issues every year. This is kind of where we are though. I do think the administration is not doing the coach any favors, but it does seem to be a tough argument when the football team has the same administration, and they have managed to build on success year after year. Maybe I'm being over simplistic.

There is no way I would say the writing is on the wall though. I don't see a change made after this year unless it just totally falls apart. As much as I want to see the basketball team return to the elite status, I don't think I want a change made at this point. What coach would want to come here knowing they have 3-4 years or they are out? I'm afraid we have to see a few more years of mediocrity before a change is made. Or better yet, maybe we start seeing him build on success and its a moot point.

Out of curiosity. What exactly is the administration doing to handicap Archie? Not saying it's not true. I no longer live in the state and I'm not around people who would. 

[Golfman25 5,373]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Plugs?

Archie is working hard. It’s not the effort I doubt. I kinda like everything about him besides the product on the court.



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I never confuse effort with accomplishment.  Doing more of the same expecting different results is insanity.  Sometime you actually have to try something different.  

[bigrod 2,871]

36 minutes ago, jonz44 said:

Out of curiosity. What exactly is the administration doing to handicap Archie? Not saying it's not true. I no longer live in the state and I'm not around people who would. 

Maybe some others can expand on this, but the rumors I have seen have to do with mandating how he is allowed discipline the team and how he can talk to the team, etc. I personally have no idea if any of this is true. I think there was also stuff about not allowing him to remove anyone, but that could have been more because of the mess Crean left. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,346]

1 hour ago, jonz44 said:

Out of curiosity. What exactly is the administration doing to handicap Archie? Not saying it's not true. I no longer live in the state and I'm not around people who would. 

[cthomas 6,428]

Bob Knight was allowed to become bigger than the university in the eyes of some in the administration. That perception led to his firing. From a university perspective, they don't want that to happen again so the will to make IU great is not there. I sense that they are happy with being competitive and avoiding embarrassing scandals. The number of passionate fans, like come here, are dwindling along with student interest. I personally don't think winning will change that. It's the nature of the world we live in. I grew up with the Branch McCracken 'Hurryin' Hoosiers' and never missed listening on the radio. Everyone I knew discussed the game the next day. I just don't see that level of interest now. And without that, what we have is what we get because not enough people demand more.

[jonz44 810]

2 hours ago, bigrod said:

Maybe some others can expand on this, but the rumors I have seen have to do with mandating how he is allowed discipline the team and how he can talk to the team, etc. I personally have no idea if any of this is true. I think there was also stuff about not allowing him to remove anyone, but that could have been more because of the mess Crean left. 

I had read on here from some that he wasn't allowed to remove players because the program was in a difficult situation academically. Hadn't heard anything about how he was allowed to talk to the team being constrained. Thanks. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by jonz44
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