Justin Smith Declares

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Yeah, no one has developed under Archie other than Morgan, Thompson, Durham, TJD, McSwain, and Smith. 
RoJo and Hartman were the same, so that’s on CAM.
 

Yup, Morgan got better. Thompson got healthy. Durham really hasn’t gotten any better. Smith didn’t get any better. McSwain didn’t get better. TJD didn’t get any better last season. Hunter got healthy. Phinisee hasn’t gotten any better. Brunk got worse over the season.


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[iu eyedoc 1,872]

5 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

What does Reggie Miller have to do with being a slashing 3/4? And slashing literally nothing to do with dribbling. Basically what Troy Williams did on offense half the time(backcuts, finding lanes and space as guards drove into the lane). That’s what Smiths role is. That’s why Crean recruited him.


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Are you serious or just trolling? Reggie Miller type movement is exactly what created so many  backdoor cuts and open looks for him throughout his career. And slashing can be done with or without the ball. What is your vision for Smith? Having him stand around waiting for someone else to create a look, lane, or layup/dunk for him? Isn't that exactly what he did last season?

As far as Troy Williams, he expended his game to be a 3 point threat (35% his final season at IU) and could knock down his free throws. Smith is a horrible 3 pt shooter and well below average at free throws especially since as a "slasher," as you characterize him, he  is expected to get to the line often. 

I hate to be typing negative stuff about a kid, but shining sunshine up his butt about how he was misused, when his game has serious holes, requires a reality check.

[Stuhoo 79,857]

20 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yup, Morgan got better. Thompson got healthy. Durham really hasn’t gotten any better. Smith didn’t get any better. McSwain didn’t get better. TJD didn’t get any better last season. Hunter got healthy. Phinisee hasn’t gotten any better. Brunk got worse over the season.


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Rather than taking the time to look up each of these players year by year under Archie and cutting and pasting the clear evidence, I encourage you to read the objective statistical facts about each to see for yourself that each, without question, markedly improved under Archie.

For instance, in three years at IU Smith went from 0.2 Assists and 1.1 TO per game to .9 and 1.6. Crappy,  but waaay better. He went up in pretty much every per/40 category year by year. Same with Durham and the others I listed. In fact, Durham got better from Soph to junior year in pretty much every category.

 

[Brass Cannon 24,293]

TJD didn’t get any better last year? That’s a bold claim. 

[iu eyedoc 1,872]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yup, Morgan got better. Thompson got healthy. Durham really hasn’t gotten any better. Smith didn’t get any better. McSwain didn’t get better. TJD didn’t get any better last season. Hunter got healthy. Phinisee hasn’t gotten any better. Brunk got worse over the season.


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So, the players that got better got better because they got healthy.

Those that didn't get better really did, esp in their area of emphasis.

 

Rob  Phinisee better 2p,3p,ft shooter, more PPG, more assists despite suffering through concussions and a decrease in minutes:

 

Freddie McSwain improved in his  offensiverebounding, defensive rebounding, and blocks:

 

Al Durham better 2pt shooter, better 3pt shooter, better ft shooter, better rebounder, better assists,better steals, all on less minutes :

 

And first year players didn't get better or got worse playing against big ten teams and the 12 ranked SOS then when they were playing the 49th SOS vs non-conference opponents.

 

Boy, you will twist logic into a pretzel or straight up lie to "prove" a point.

 

Oh and by the way, of all those players you claimed got worse, also significantly improved stats per 40 minutes played with the exception of JS.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by iu eyedoc

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Are you serious or just trolling? Reggie Miller type movement is exactly what created so many  backdoor cuts and open looks for him throughout his career. And slashing can be done with or without the ball. What is your vision for Smith? Having him stand around waiting for someone else to create a look, lane, or layup/dunk for him? Isn't that exactly what he did last season?
As far as Troy Williams, he expended his game to be a 3 point threat (35% his final season at IU) and could knock down his free throws. Smith is a horrible 3 pt shooter and well below average at free throws especially since as a "slasher," as you characterize him, he  is expected to get to the line often. 
I hate to be typing negative stuff about a kid, but shining sunshine up his butt about how he was misused, when his game has serious holes, requires a reality check.

Slashing is done without the ball. Slashing with the ball is called driving. Reggie wasn’t a slasher. He was a shooter and great off the ball. Steph Curry is the same way. Kyle Korver is great at it as well. That’s just simple basketball knowledge. Smith didn’t need to ever really dribble outside of maybe have to put the ball on floor for a couple bounces. But he was never going to be used as a slasher under Archie like he would have under Crean. People an hate on Crean all they want, but I can guarantee the lane would have been way more open for Smith to find space. Crean was just a better offensive mind than Archie. Archie just isn’t creative on that end of the floor like he might be on the defensive side.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Rather than taking the time to look up each of these players year by year under Archie and cutting and pasting the clear evidence, I encourage you to read the objective statistical facts about each to see for yourself that each, without question, markedly improved under Archie.
For instance, in three years at IU Smith went from 0.2 Assists and 1.1 TO per game to .9 and 1.6. Crappy,  but waaay better. He went up in pretty much every per/40 category year by year. Same with Durham and the others I listed. In fact, Durham got better from Soph to junior year in pretty much every category.
 

Yet Durham continued be a crappy decision maker and Smith never got better at shooting. Consistency from both never got any better. What they did was natural progress with more experience and bigger roles. Which pretty much every player ever will do. You can just watch by how they play, they weren’t any different of players from Sophomore to Junior year. Unfortunately, Durham and Smith hit their peaks under Archie. Smith showed some flashes of what we needed from him. Timely blocks and steals, great defense, offensive rebounder. Durham showed some flashes of being a steady guard that was really like a poor mans Rob Johnson. Durhams problem is he didn’t show up against the best team we played consistently enough but feasted on the crappy teams we played. Smith was a little more consistent. His problem was consistency within a game from commercial to commercial.


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[Brass Cannon 24,293]

6 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yet Durham continued be a crappy decision maker and Smith never got better at shooting. Consistency from both never got any better. What they did was natural progress with more experience and bigger roles. Which pretty much every player ever will do. You can just watch by how they play, they weren’t any different of players from Sophomore to Junior year. Unfortunately, Durham and Smith hit their peaks under Archie. Smith showed some flashes of what we needed from him. Timely blocks and steals, great defense, offensive rebounder. Durham showed some flashes of being a steady guard that was really like a poor mans Rob Johnson. Durhams problem is he didn’t show up against the best team we played consistently enough but feasted on the crappy teams we played. Smith was a little more consistent. His problem was consistency within a game from commercial to commercial.


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Durham was played out of position. I guess Morgan was a lost cause because he stunk as a point forward.  

[iu eyedoc 1,872]

16 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Slashing is done without the ball. Slashing with the ball is called driving.


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That is just wrong. You can flash to the lane for a catch and dunk/layup or grab a pass on the perimeter and dribble drive hard for similar. Both are slashing.  Here is a simple internet definition for you.

Straight Ahead

A slasher can handle the basketball or take a pass on the move. Unless the defensive pressure is suffocating, the slasher dribbles right to the basket and weaves around defenders. Slashers take most of their shots from close range, and you will see the gifted athletes drive in and dunk the basketball.

Draw the Foul

Slashers typically start dribbling from the perimeter, and they have to go through multiple defenders before reaching the basket. Fouls are common, either on the floor or in the act of shooting. The slasher has to be in top physical condition to continuously absorb contact and stay effective. Slashers can make the defense pay for fouling by making free throws.

Draw a Crowd

Slashers are big scorers, and they attract multiple defenders when driving to the basket. Forcing up shots is counterproductive. Skilled slashers draw a crowd of defenders and are aware of their teammates. With two or three defensive players collapsing on the slasher near the basket, other offensive players are wide open. Slashers that can pass off and get their teammates wide-open shots are doubly dangerous.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

And again it's funny that you fault CAM for misusing Smith, but you envision him as a guy that should be relied on to do nothing more than dunk a basketball off of others work creating openings for him.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by iu eyedoc

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Durham was played out of position. I guess Morgan was a lost cause because he stunk as a point forward.  

How has Durham played out of position? He played the 2 almost exclusively all season.


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[Brass Cannon 24,293]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

How has Durham played out of position? He played the 2 almost exclusively all season.


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Oh you didn’t watch the games last year. This clears up a lot 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

That is just wrong. You can flash to the lane for a catch and dunk/layup or grab a pass on the perimeter and dribble drive hard for similar. Both are slashing.  Here is a simple internet definition for you.

Straight Ahead

A slasher can handle the basketball or take a pass on the move. Unless the defensive pressure is suffocating, the slasher dribbles right to the basket and weaves around defenders. Slashers take most of their shots from close range, and you will see the gifted athletes drive in and dunk the basketball.

Draw the Foul

Slashers typically start dribbling from the perimeter, and they have to go through multiple defenders before reaching the basket. Fouls are common, either on the floor or in the act of shooting. The slasher has to be in top physical condition to continuously absorb contact and stay effective. Slashers can make the defense pay for fouling by making free throws.

Draw a Crowd

Slashers are big scorers, and they attract multiple defenders when driving to the basket. Forcing up shots is counterproductive. Skilled slashers draw a crowd of defenders and are aware of their teammates. With two or three defensive players collapsing on the slasher near the basket, other offensive players are wide open. Slashers that can pass off and get their teammates wide-open shots are doubly dangerous.
 
 
Hope this helps.
 
And again it's funny that you fault CAM for misusing Smith, but you envision him as a guy that should be relied on to do nothing more than dunk a basketball off of others work creating openings for him.
 

Those might be the most god awful definitions of anything in basketball. Is James Harden all of a sudden a slasher? No. Harden is a playmaker and a scorer. He’s not a slasher. I don’t know where you found those definitions, but those people don’t need to be explaining basketball to anybody. That’s just trying to make an incredibly easy game(on paper) too complex.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Oh you didn’t watch the games last year. This clears up a lot 

So Phinisee didn’t play point guard? Was that Durham? Or did Smith not play the 3 but Durham did? Durham play in his 2 spot basically all season, outside of the few games he was starting with Franklin.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

That is just wrong. You can flash to the lane for a catch and dunk/layup or grab a pass on the perimeter and dribble drive hard for similar. Both are slashing.  Here is a simple internet definition for you.

Straight Ahead

A slasher can handle the basketball or take a pass on the move. Unless the defensive pressure is suffocating, the slasher dribbles right to the basket and weaves around defenders. Slashers take most of their shots from close range, and you will see the gifted athletes drive in and dunk the basketball.

Draw the Foul

Slashers typically start dribbling from the perimeter, and they have to go through multiple defenders before reaching the basket. Fouls are common, either on the floor or in the act of shooting. The slasher has to be in top physical condition to continuously absorb contact and stay effective. Slashers can make the defense pay for fouling by making free throws.

Draw a Crowd

Slashers are big scorers, and they attract multiple defenders when driving to the basket. Forcing up shots is counterproductive. Skilled slashers draw a crowd of defenders and are aware of their teammates. With two or three defensive players collapsing on the slasher near the basket, other offensive players are wide open. Slashers that can pass off and get their teammates wide-open shots are doubly dangerous.
 
 
Hope this helps.
 
And again it's funny that you fault CAM for misusing Smith, but you envision him as a guy that should be relied on to do nothing more than dunk a basketball off of others work creating openings for him.
 

Now some coaches do have specific roles for players. But those are coaches who know offense. Archie doesn’t know offense, like at all. He’s never coached a great offense in his career. Which is why it’s not a surprise he’d misuse Smith, or play Brunk and TJD together so much, or say something like (our guys really aren’t bad shooting, even if the numbers say they are).


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[Brass Cannon 24,293]

10 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

So Phinisee didn’t play point guard? Was that Durham? Or did Smith not play the 3 but Durham did? Durham play in his 2 spot basically all season, outside of the few games he was starting with Franklin.


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Franklin started 30 percent of the games.  Funny definition of “few”

[mdn82 25,510]

Now some coaches do have specific roles for players. But those are coaches who know offense. Archie doesn’t know offense, like at all. He’s never coached a great offense in his career. Which is why it’s not a surprise he’d misuse Smith, or play Brunk and TJD together so much, or say something like (our guys really aren’t bad shooting, even if the numbers say they are).


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Man imagine if he learns something. I know you don’t think that is possible, but for such a god awful coach his adjusted offense was 65. The defense was 26th. Imagine if he actually learns something. If he learns just one thing in your eyes then all of the sudden he would be a top ten coach. That would be a spectacular turn of events, don’t you think? I just always assumed coaches win titles out of the gate. Oh you know, I got it. It’s the players only at that point. We would have won in spite of him. Or the players improving on their own raised his game. As long as every angle of this pretzel convo you got going is covered.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Franklin started 30 percent of the games.  Funny definition of “few”

He started in 9 at the very beginning of the season and the easiest portion of the season.


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[Uspshoosier 45,285]

Yup, Morgan got better. Thompson got healthy. Durham really hasn’t gotten any better. Smith didn’t get any better. McSwain didn’t get better. TJD didn’t get any better last season. Hunter got healthy. Phinisee hasn’t gotten any better. Brunk got worse over the season.


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TJD didn’t get any better from high school? I’ve stayed out of this discussion because I know where this rabbit hole goes but to say TJD didn’t get any better from his senior year in high school is a very hot take. I watched that kid for 4 years in high school and he absolutely improved from his senior year in high school to his freshman year at IU. Footwork, finishing around the rim, rebounding and ft percentage and so on all improved tremendously since he got to iu. As far as smith. Some blame Archie, some blame smith, some blame both, some blame none it really doesn’t matter. He wanted to be used different and play a different position then what the coaches envisioned. That coach still let him play to the position he wanted for most of the year. He averaged the most minutes on the team as a junior and still left. If the player and his family doesn’t think he fits into the system even when he played the most minutes then there really isn’t anything to argue about. My opinion it was probably best for both sides to move on.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

Man imagine if he learns something. I know you don’t think that is possible, but for such a god awful coach his adjusted offense was 65. The defense was 26th. Imagine if he actually learns something. If he learns just one thing in your eyes then all of the sudden he would be a top ten coach. That would be a spectacular turn of events, don’t you think? I just always assumed coaches win titles out of the gate. Oh you know, I got it. It’s the players only at that point. We would have won in spite of him. Or the players improving on their own raised his game. As long as every angle of this pretzel convo you got going is covered.


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Our points per possession was 1.016 which was 112th in the nation. The year before it was 1.008 which was also 112th(which I found kinda funny). Archie’s first season we were 171st with 1.030 ppp. He needs to learn more than just one thing. He really needs to have an offensive mind of the bench. He is young so he can still learn if he wants to. But last year he kept just talking without any action. I see that as an issue. But with his ability to coach defense, he really just needs some basic offensive knowledge to succeed and he seems to not have that yet.


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[Brass Cannon 24,293]

Your back get tired from moving so many goalposts