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IUc2016

POTFB Game Thread: Indiana Hoosiers vs. Purdue Boilermakers (2/27 at 7PM on FS1)

By IUc2016, in Indiana Men's Basketball

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Brass Cannon    24,366

Brass Cannon
Posted
6 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I hear this all the time but in all of my years around college and high school basketball, I've never heard of someone hiring a coach just to help with shooting. Shooting is on the player, get up shots on your off days. 1000 shots a day in the summer. College kids don't want someone working with their mechanics. Bob Knight tried to do it to one player, Delray Brooks and he transferred because he didn't want someone messing with his shot.  

If your shooting is this consistently terrible it might be time to do something new 

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reconmkd    4,347

reconmkd
Posted
A few thoughts on this one... and how it relates to the whole.
- By no means am I trying to tell someone how they should feel after this loss. Losing to Purdue stinks and we've done a lot of that the last few years. As a fan, it's frustrating. No two ways around it. So if you're ticked off that we lost last night... I hear you. Those are valid feelings.
- I'm not sure you can win a Big Ten game shooting 25% from the field. Purdue can really clamp down on you defensively and take away your strengths. They did it to us. They double-teamed our bigs often. Our guys didn't respond well. But all the same, when someone is double-teamed, someone else is open. That's when our back-court HAS to step up. They didn't last night. They went 7-29. This has happened before this year and as we have seen, that's not gonna get it done.
- I've seen some say that they felt we were thoroughly out worked in this game. Not completely sure on that. We were beaten, no doubt. But look at rebounds...40-37, Purdue. They only had us by three. We had them 16-12 in offensive boards (an effort stat.) Turnovers? 11-13 in favor of Purdue. Not a HUGE difference there. Steals? 8-7, Purdue. Again, just one more than us. Blocks? 4-3 IU. We had them there. Free throw attempts 21-18 Hoosiers... even with the fouls at the end. Purdue only shot 37% (11% from 3.) Did we execute well? No. Did we at least compete? I think so. Not sure it was an effort deal last night. We just stunk offensively. When we played Purdue in Bloomington, THAT was an effort deal. Just my opinion.
- I've really tried to focus my feelings from a season-wide perspective as opposed to game to game. Because the fact is... we're not that good. We're not that bad, either. We're just limited. We're capable of beating good teams. We're capable of being blown out. When you look at the composition of the roster, you knew this would be a possibility. In the Season Predictions Thread I guessed 18-13 (9-11)... so we're actually a little ahead of where I thought we'd be. We're still in good shape to make the tournament... which for me, was the barometer THIS season. It would show progress. We're still on our way. Win 2/3 in these last three conference games and I feel we're a lock. Probably still in good position if we only win one more (and another win vs. NEB or NW and the tourney would put us at 20 wins... that would most likely get us in. If you look at our resume, it's relatively strong for a bubble team.) So as a whole, I'm content.
- Now if you're upset from a MACRO standpoint that our offense can still look like this in late FEB in Year 3... I get it. That we haven't beaten Purdue since 2016? I get it. That we question effort in Year 3? I get it. I don't necessarily disagree. But that's a different lens and I feel it's absolutely imperative to recognize that. THIS YEAR'S team was going to be prone to offensive struggles. When the "leadership" of THIS team has been criticized for poor effort in year's past, you knew it could still be an issue this season. In my opinion, I think you have to have two separate grades for how THIS team is performing vs. how the Archie tenure has gone as a whole. For what we have on the team THIS year, I think we're doing okay. If you're upset that this this is what we have in Year 3, I hear you. But that's a different issue.
Therefore, I believe it's possible to be upset with this loss (along with other losses) and still be optimistic/content about how THIS year has turned out. But again, I'm just a dude who types on a keyboard.


Bravo Early in the season, I could still see the underlying issues with our roster. It’s been evident for a couple years, the upperclassmen are generally role players on any other team. In my personal opinion, I believe the only upperclassmen that generally was not a role player was DD, but his luck with injuries robbed him of his full potential.

I too thought preseason this team would win 18-20 games this year, roll into a tourney appearance with maybe a Round of 32 loss. Some of the games this year gave some inkling of maybe a better season, but we are still on track to finish almost exactly where I and many, many others thought we would be this season. Which is still showing progression, despite our roster. I absolutely want IU back to the level that I grew up watching in the late 80’s and 90’s, I absolutely want to say screw PUke and would absolutely love to silence their beloved “IU sucks” chant at every damn game.

Look at recruiting, look at the differences in the underclassmen compared to the upper, there are changes happening. I think those changes are moving in the right direction. I believe this was a way more difficult rebuild than many imagined, but with each new class I see more and more guys who have already bought in and will absolutely play for what is written on the front of their chest. I’m not saying that the upperclassmen don’t play for it as well, they are just who they are, a double edged sword. (Role Players with experience expected to pick up this team and carry it)

Its been said many times Devonte is our best chance for an offensive explosion, last night he just couldn’t deliver. Franklin showed some flashes last night, but was hampered by many freshman mistakes in a row that took him out of the game. Who else was going to take those shots at the end of the game? No one cause no one could hit the wide side of a barn from 2 inches away! So did it suck to lose to PUke again, absolutely, am I so pissed that I want to burn it down and start another rebuild, absolutely not.


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LamarCheeks    18,394

LamarCheeks
Posted
23 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I hear this all the time but in all of my years around college and high school basketball, I've never heard of someone hiring a coach just to help with shooting. Shooting is on the player, get up shots on your off days. 1000 shots a day in the summer. College kids don't want someone working with their mechanics. Bob Knight tried to do it to one player, Delray Brooks and he transferred because he didn't want someone messing with his shot.  

I'm also not necessarily a fan of shooting gurus. Reggie Miller had a very un-fundamental shot -- yet he made it work. It's about getting in the gym, getting reps and making personal adjustments to figure out how to get them to go in. Rick Mount said he had a job as a lifeguard over the summer. He must've worked near a gym, because he said on his lunch break, he'd go shoot 300 jumpers. And during his other breaks, he'd go shoot. I'm hoping our guys get this mentality -- that when you are able to, get in the gym and shoot. That's the main thing that's gonna make you better. 

I live in Virginia. One day a few years ago, I went to the Y. The basketball gym was empty, so I picked up a ball and started shooting. After a while, I started shooting FTs. I had just made 9 of 10, when one guy came in and -- I have no idea why -- started telling me to change the position of my feet. I repeat: I had just made 9 of 10 and without seeing that, this "expert" started telling me to change my form. I was like, "I grew up in Indiana. I know how to shoot free throws."

Maybe a guru couldn't hurt, but it just seems like shooting is such a personal thing -- you have to figure out what works best for you and make your own adjustments. And the best way to do that is to get in the gym and shoot. 

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Golfman25    5,137

Golfman25
Posted
24 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I hear this all the time but in all of my years around college and high school basketball, I've never heard of someone hiring a coach just to help with shooting. Shooting is on the player, get up shots on your off days. 1000 shots a day in the summer. College kids don't want someone working with their mechanics. Bob Knight tried to do it to one player, Delray Brooks and he transferred because he didn't want someone messing with his shot.  

Why?  Baseball teams have hitting coaches.  Sure there are many ways to shoot, but there are certain fundamentals which need to be present.  It's the coach's job to watch and see if those fundamentals are there or breaking down.  Nothing wrong with a professional set of eyes saying "this seems off."  

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cthomas    6,369

cthomas
Posted
1 hour ago, Adillac said:

I know this may sound like some participation-trophy type of thinking but...what if many of our players don’t really enjoy playing basketball and they’re just doing it because they think they should or have to. One can try hard but also not want to try hard which can surreptitiously affect the nature of the effort and results from said effort. 
 

im reaching here...but when Archie says we had good effort etc...I just don’t believe that in any way that actually matters. I can do a workout and put in plenty of effort, but if I’m just doing it to get it over with, the workout isn’t as effective as when I’m focusing on each rep and when I’m enjoying the process. 
 

Just seems to me that we might have several players that are there but don’t want to be there. They are jumping high and running down the court and breaking a sweat and getting tired but....I could be totally wrong. 

You might be on to something here. I have a grandson whose dad pushed him into football at a young age. He developed well enough to play in the North - South All Star game and earn a scholarship to Western Illinois. Left school after one year and is now in the Navy. His heart wasn't in it and probably never was. The talent to do something and the desire to sometimes doesn't match. For some kids basketball may be the ticket to an education or livelihood otherwise unavailable. We see only a very one dimensional view of these kids and make very hard line judgments about them. Several of Coach Knight's last few teams looked, and played, like they couldn't wait for the season to end. We often project how we would feel and react to the opportunity presented to these kids and it's really not fair at all. I'm just trying to say that the dynamic at play is more complicated than it seems.

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Loaded Chicken Sandwich    8,660

Loaded Chicken Sandwich
Posted
I'm also not necessarily a fan of shooting gurus. Reggie Miller had a very un-fundamental shot -- yet he made it work. It's about getting in the gym, getting reps and making personal adjustments to figure out how to get them to go in. Rick Mount said he had a job as a lifeguard over the summer. He must've worked near a gym, because he said on his lunch break, he'd go shoot 300 jumpers. And during his other breaks, he'd go shoot. I'm hoping our guys get this mentality -- that when you are able to, get in the gym and shoot. That's the main thing that's gonna make you better. 
I live in Virginia. One day a few years ago, I went to the Y. The basketball gym was empty, so I picked up a ball and started shooting. After a while, I started shooting FTs. I had just made 9 of 10, when one guy came in and -- I have no idea why -- started telling me to change the position of my feet. I repeat: I had just made 9 of 10 and without seeing that, this "expert" started telling me to change my form. I was like, "I grew up in Indiana. I know how to shoot free throws."
Maybe a guru couldn't hurt, but it just seems like shooting is such a personal thing -- you have to figure out what works best for you and make your own adjustments. And the best way to do that is to get in the gym and shoot. 

Some people just aren’t good at it no matter how much they practice. Watford had an odd shot but he was a great shooter. Shawn Marion would be more trustworthy shooting 3’s than our guys and that was ugly. Rob and Al don’t have terrible mechanics, they just aren’t great shooters. Franklin though needs his shot fixed because he has a hitch in it. But those are things that should be worked on as a young kid. It’s something that’s up to both player and coach.


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Chris007    43,626

Chris007
Posted
33 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Why?  Baseball teams have hitting coaches.  Sure there are many ways to shoot, but there are certain fundamentals which need to be present.  It's the coach's job to watch and see if those fundamentals are there or breaking down.  Nothing wrong with a professional set of eyes saying "this seems off."  

IMO hitting a baseball is much tougher than shooting jumpers. That's why I would compare those two. If you want to be a good shooter put in time and effort and you will be. You might put in time and effort in hitting but that won't make you a good hitter. Maybe help you become an average hitter. Just my two cents

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Adillac    953

Adillac
Posted

Anybody have a take on the Archie/Bruiser clip? I swear at the beginning Archie says “Our offense f***** sucks!”

The whole thing is kinda funny imo especially the coach on Archie’s right staring off into space while mindlessly stuffing a piece of paper in a folder for like 10 seconds lol. 

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JustWinWoody    3,385

JustWinWoody
Posted
7 minutes ago, Adillac said:

Anybody have a take on the Archie/Bruiser clip? I swear at the beginning Archie says “Our offense f***** sucks!”

The whole thing is kinda funny imo especially the coach on Archie’s right staring off into space while mindlessly stuffing a piece of paper in a folder for like 10 seconds lol. 

I understood him to say "Rob Phinisee sucks!"  Then Flint says "these two MFers!  Then something to do with excuses.  But, I'm no lip reader.

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Adillac    953

Adillac
Posted
3 minutes ago, InArchWeTrust said:

I understood him to say "Rob Phinisee sucks!"  Then Flint says "these two MFers!  Then something to do with excuses.  But, I'm no lip reader.

Oh snap...you might be right! Daaamn. lol. 

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OliviaPope40    6,482

OliviaPope40
Posted
2 hours ago, InArchWeTrust said:

I understood him to say "Rob Phinisee sucks!"  Then Flint says "these two MFers!  Then something to do with excuses.  But, I'm no lip reader.

From the looks of it that what he says too shame there's no audio.

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