Fred Glass Retiring

[8bucks 6,445]

First of all its not complicated why an AD should not have extended him. Yes we did have the #1 pre-season team going into that year. However, you need to take a look at all of the data points, and not just select a la carte what improves your own narrative while ignoring the underlying issues. My theory is that either you're upset because you fully believed in Crean and to this day still refuse to believe that you were wrong by drinking the Kool-Aid he was pouring,. Just admit it was a terrible decision by Glass to extend him.
 
First:  what was happening behind closed doors: Crean was undoubtedly rubbing people the wrong way, having his own players conspire behind his back (per sources regarding Yogi and Hanner during the 2012-2013 season), not having a practice schedule, the supposed story of recruiting Kyrie, etc. I don't know all of the stories. but there was enough by Summer 2012 where there were a lot of unanswered questions... Now some of these were things the public didn't have access too at the time, but the AD did, and this should have been factored into his extension decision.
 
Second: Don't forget that IU had other options besides Crean that IU could have went after for their next head coach. Brad Stevens was a coach in the State of Indiana that supposedly had in his Butler contract that the only 2 places he could leave for within the college ranks was Indiana and Duke... so Before you say "So your plan was to fire him with the #1 pre-season team?"... No, i'm not saying that. I'm saying he was never a proven coach at IU. What did he prove outside of beating UK and having 1 nice season out of 4? Without Crean having proved anything it made more sense to wait another year to see what he could do. Additionally, if you as the coach just were rewarded with a massive contract for the results he had, what message does that send? not a competitive one. It made more sense to evaluate him after the year was over by evaluating the situation within the program by interviewing the players, etc. I mean he made S16 rings one year and then cut down the nets after a loss. Truly bizarre stuff happening that looking back were huge red flags
 
Third: Indiana had absolutely all the leverage. Where was Crean going to go? He couldn't have gone to the NBA, he couldn't have left for a better college job... You're saying recruiting? That is a short sided decision that shouldn't impact a coaching decision. Also was Crean really going to be hampered by his contract that he wasn't going to be able to recruit? that notion is a complete farce. Recruiting would have been the same for the 2013-2014 year. However, the recruits for 2014-2015 may have been different because the fan base would have not allowed that contract extension to ever take place. 
 
Glass could have happily extended Crean at the END of the season, but he didn't. He ignored all the red flags, he ignored the better coaches within the state that wanted to coach there, and because of that our AD signed one of the worst extensions in all of college basketball. BTW,  I completely understand that firing a coach with a pre-season #1 team is ludicrous... But choosing to wait less than 365 days before handing him that extension is more than reasonable.
 
For complete disclosure, I also have been adamant on here that I firmly believe Chris Beard is a better coach than Archie Miller. I say that very objectively because I'm sure you're thinking to yourself "well what would SouthernIndianaHoosier2 do if he were AD".. As AD  I'm moving on to Chris Beard at the end of this year, barring a miracle. 
 

I wonder how Chris Beard would view that? Perhaps he would jump at a chance to coach IU or maybe he thinks, wow they really turned on Archie fast.


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[mdn82 25,510]

Mind expanding on this?   I agree McRobbie should be gone for myriad reasons, but the BOT is a bunch of yes men and women who have their own agendas.   They won't vote him out.    HE has to fire Glass, and he won't because Glass is doing as he asks.   Glass won't fire Miller (and I have zero belief he should...in fact, I don't even understand the suggestion) or Allen right now because both programs are in relatively good shape; and both better than they were within the last decade and basketball since 2016.   
Everybody wants to win, including Fred Glass.   The suggestion above that he doesn't is moronic.   But you don't win by constantly changing coaches when things don't happen right away.   That's a recipe for losing and building a horrible culture no coach will be attracted to.   I guess I see Indiana Athletics as on an upward trend.  I know there are people who want an immediate fix.  Me?  I want consistency.  I want to get old and stay old.  That doesn't happen overnight.  But in basketball?  It's happening.

Oh completely agree. I am more discussing those above FG that have become road blocks to things asked when coming from the football and basketball programs. When those two programs aren’t getting what they want within reason due to a few people I think that speaks for itself. I know he won’t get props here but his persistence has got us what we have got over the last ten years.


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[mdn82 25,510]

First of all its not complicated why an AD should not have extended him. Yes we did have the #1 pre-season team going into that year. However, you need to take a look at all of the data points, and not just select a la carte what improves your own narrative while ignoring the underlying issues. My theory is that either you're upset because you fully believed in Crean and to this day still refuse to believe that you were wrong by drinking the Kool-Aid he was pouring,. Just admit it was a terrible decision by Glass to extend him.  

First:  what was happening behind closed doors: Crean was undoubtedly rubbing people the wrong way, having his own players conspire behind his back (per sources regarding Yogi and Hanner during the 2012-2013 season), not having a practice schedule, the supposed story of recruiting Kyrie, etc. I don't know all of the stories. but there was enough by Summer 2012 where there were a lot of unanswered questions... Now some of these were things the public didn't have access too at the time, but the AD did, and this should have been factored into his extension decision.

 

Second: Don't forget that IU had other options besides Crean that IU could have went after for their next head coach. Brad Stevens was a coach in the State of Indiana that supposedly had in his Butler contract that the only 2 places he could leave for within the college ranks was Indiana and Duke... so Before you say "So your plan was to fire him with the #1 pre-season team?"... No, i'm not saying that. I'm saying he was never a proven coach at IU. What did he prove outside of beating UK and having 1 nice season out of 4? Without Crean having proved anything it made more sense to wait another year to see what he could do. Additionally, if you as the coach just were rewarded with a massive contract for the results he had, what message does that send? not a competitive one. It made more sense to evaluate him after the year was over by evaluating the situation within the program by interviewing the players, etc. I mean he made S16 rings one year and then cut down the nets after a loss. Truly bizarre stuff happening that looking back were huge red flags

 

Third: Indiana had absolutely all the leverage. Where was Crean going to go? He couldn't have gone to the NBA, he couldn't have left for a better college job... You're saying recruiting? That is a short sided decision that shouldn't impact a coaching decision. Also was Crean really going to be hampered by his contract that he wasn't going to be able to recruit? that notion is a complete farce. Recruiting would have been the same for the 2013-2014 year. However, the recruits for 2014-2015 may have been different because the fan base would have not allowed that contract extension to ever take place. 

 

Glass could have happily extended Crean at the END of the season, but he didn't. He ignored all the red flags, he ignored the better coaches within the state that wanted to coach there, and because of that our AD signed one of the worst extensions in all of college basketball. BTW,  I completely understand that firing a coach with a pre-season #1 team is ludicrous... But choosing to wait less than 365 days before handing him that extension is more than reasonable.

 

For complete disclosure, I also have been adamant on here that I firmly believe Chris Beard is a better coach than Archie Miller. I say that very objectively because I'm sure you're thinking to yourself "well what would SouthernIndianaHoosier2 do if he were AD".. As AD  I'm moving on to Chris Beard at the end of this year, barring a miracle. 

 

 

I am with you on Beard, but wow. You really didn’t follow too closely back then did you? I will just say disagree and move on if that’s what has made up your mind. Crazy you got that much from his first four years. HP and Yogi turned on Crean? His mom would disagree with that and has actually on this very site. When she posted here for most of Yogis time at IU. This was hands down the funniest post I have seen in a while though. I will give you that.

 

 

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[Alford Bailey 12,384]

2 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Yeah, I am pissed about the whole situation. So many wasted years under poor leadership. It just infuriates me how winning isn’t the top priority in athletics. Why the hell do you even play, coach, or administer sports if not to win? 

Obviously not a priority. I think most can see that. But, Im sure cool dads hands are tied somewhat by McRobbie.

[Josh 12,640]

5 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I can agree with that. That’s why I want a complete overhaul at the top because I feel you can do both. Without changes at the top the expectations don’t change and we will be in the same boat ten years from now.


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That last line sounds like you don't have faith in Archie?

[mdn82 25,510]

That last line sounds like you don't have faith in Archie?

Not if his hands are handcuffed I don’t.


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[mdn82 25,510]

I am with you on Beard, but wow. You really didn’t follow too closely back then did you? I will just say disagree and move on if that’s what has made up your mind. Crazy you got that much from his first four years. HP and Yogi turned on Crean? His mom would disagree with that and has actually on this very site. When she posted here for most of Yogis time at IU. This was hands down the funniest post I have seen in a while though. I will give you that. 
 
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I should add before I am asked Beard is the only coach in the NCAA I would fire damn near any coach for. I personally think he is just that good.


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[Josh 12,640]

37 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Not if his hands are handcuffed I don’t.


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How do you mean?  Handcuffed how?

[mdn82 25,510]

How do you mean?  Handcuffed how?

Not anymore than any other coach at IU. So I am not saying it’s a special circumstance. There are just things different sports ask for they don’t get. That could make things easier. Do I think those things stop a Chris Beard from winning here? No, but it would be great if the admin or some on the BOT would want to win as much as the fans. Some do, and some don’t. I think both football and basketball should be a higher priority but understand the other side of that argument as well.


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[Josh 12,640]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

Not anymore than any other coach at IU. So I am not saying it’s a special circumstance. There are just things different sports ask for they don’t get. That could make things easier. Do I think those things stop a Chris Beard from winning here? No, but it would be great if the admin or some on the BOT would want to win as much as the fans. Some do, and some don’t. I think both football and basketball should be a higher priority but understand the other side of that argument as well.


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Are you referring to allowing him to "play the game" in recruiting?  Otherwise I guess I still don't follow.  I feel like if he's a great coach, he wins regardless.  I don't see anything that's handcuffing him.

[mdn82 25,510]

Are you referring to allowing him to "play the game" in recruiting?  Otherwise I guess I still don't follow.  I feel like if he's a great coach, he wins regardless.  I don't see anything that's handcuffing him.

Agree to disagree then. That’s modern college imo. It’s an arms race. Not just to get recruits. But to recover, to develop, to train, and to be comfortable. Beyond that I feel we “play the game”. But not to the level others do. Another area where compliance is aiming to catch our programs like they are a New York Detective catching a coke dealer. I am not saying go full blown LSU but we aren’t even aloud to work in the gray a lot of the time. Sometimes you just have to. This isn’t about a coach like you want this to be and I know that’s where it’s headed. It don’t matter who is here for any level of consistency as things stand imo.


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[Josh 12,640]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

Agree to disagree then. That’s modern college imo. It’s an arms race. Not just to get recruits. But to recover, to develop, to train, and to be comfortable. Beyond that I feel we “play the game”. But not to the level others do. Another area where compliance is aiming to catch our programs like they are a New York Detective catching a coke dealer. I am not saying go full blown LSU but we aren’t even aloud to work in the gray a lot of the time. Sometimes you just have to. This isn’t about a coach like you want this to be and I know that’s where it’s headed. It don’t matter who is here for any level of consistency as things stand imo.


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Actually, I agree.  I wish we played in the grey more than our conpliance department allows us to.

I just don't see it as that big of a handcuff.  I think we have a better situation than most.

[lucel15 3,052]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

Actually, I agree.  I wish we played in the grey more than our conpliance department allows us to.

I just don't see it as that big of a handcuff.  I think we have a better situation than most.

When it comes to compliance office....or academic admission....ik that IU had 3 good grad transfers.....most schools in the big ten work with teams to get kids in...IU does not. 3 kids that could have tremendously helped with depth and let youth develop more especially on OL and DL. 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

16 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I am with you on Beard, but wow. You really didn’t follow too closely back then did you? I will just say disagree and move on if that’s what has made up your mind. Crazy you got that much from his first four years. HP and Yogi turned on Crean? His mom would disagree with that and has actually on this very site. When she posted here for most of Yogis time at IU. This was hands down the funniest post I have seen in a while though. I will give you that.

 

 

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As far as not following too closely. I was against the extension when it happened. I was a student at the time. 

 

My question is: What was present at the time of Crean's firing that wasn't already present by the end of 2013 and especially by the end of the 2013-2014 season (which is when I've always suggested IU part ways). Because every reason he was fired for was clear and apparent by 2013 IMO we didn't learn anything new over the next four years. 

[mdn82 25,510]

As far as not following too closely. I was against the extension when it happened. I was a student at the time. 
 
My question is: What was present at the time of Crean's firing that wasn't already present by the end of 2013 and especially by the end of the 2013-2014 season (which is when I've always suggested IU part ways). Because every reason he was fired for was clear and apparent by 2013 IMO we didn't learn anything new over the next four years. 

Nothing. I mean you added theories, and rumors into your initial post to me that mean nothing. But contracts and timelines don’t exactly work the way you are wanting at this level. Never have. The thing you are asking on firing is apparent in every coach. Every coach within a couple of years you will see why they end up getting fired. Why Crean got fired is because those reasons became more and more. Honestly Crean was fired more for his inability to recruit this state at the end than anything. Take that with the losses and it was time. It was not that way in 2012-13. To that point he was extremely popular in the AD due to his ability to speak to and receive donations. So the things that frustrated you just weren’t a consideration until January of the year he was fired due to the fanbase turning on him. Other than that I have nothing for your initial post. My opinion won’t matter much to you based on your “theories”.


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[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

1 hour ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

As far as not following too closely. I was against the extension when it happened. I was a student at the time. 

 

My question is: What was present at the time of Crean's firing that wasn't already present by the end of 2013 and especially by the end of the 2013-2014 season (which is when I've always suggested IU part ways). Because every reason he was fired for was clear and apparent by 2013 IMO we didn't learn anything new over the next four years. 

If you were a student at the time of the extension (I was too), it should be apparent why he got the extension. He was the most beloved man on campus. He got a team that stunk the three years prior and took IU to the first sweet sixteen in a decade and had the number one team in the country going into 2013.

If you saw the clear and apparent issues at that time, especially if as a student, then you were one of the few. 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

5 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Nothing. I mean you added theories, and rumors into your initial post to me that mean nothing. But contracts and timelines don’t exactly work the way you are wanting at this level. Never have. The thing you are asking on firing is apparent in every coach. Every coach within a couple of years you will see why they end up getting fired. Why Crean got fired is because those reasons became more and more. Honestly Crean was fired more for his inability to recruit this state at the end than anything. Take that with the losses and it was time. It was not that way in 2012-13. To that point he was extremely popular in the AD due to his ability to speak to and receive donations. So the things that frustrated you just weren’t a consideration until January of the year he was fired due to the fanbase turning on him. Other than that I have nothing for your initial post. My opinion won’t matter much to you based on your “theories”.


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I totally get and understand your position. I really do. Obviously Crean wasn't fired at the end of the 2014 season. Also my post did include rumors posted on multiple boards. I was told by a source close to the program that Yogi and Hanner were not 100% bought into Crean in their first year and it showed in their attitudes toward him. I also listened to a podcast that did not dismiss a rumor that Crean's players told a recruit not to come to IU...My argument is that our AD is a BAD AD and never handled the Crean saga the way I felt he should have. I also get that  timing played a huge part in writing his contract.... What I'm saying is that the AD should have been close enough to the program where he was able to see the red flags, these same red flags that he was fired for a few years later. Its not like he was a great coach and then all of a sudden he wasn't. He really was the same coach for his entire tenure. Which is why i'm saying that Glass shouldn't have fallen for the "Well he brings in donations and is a good speaker", and "well I don't want it to negatively impact recruiting", "wow next year we could get Noah Vonleh". Again, none of those reasons listed have anything to do with the ability to Win a National Championship. I was against the extension when it happened. I suggested that we wait until the end of the season. we didn't. Had we waited, it would have been a hard sell extending Crean after the S16 loss. Crean gets fired at the end of 2014, Stevens still goes to Boston, but we get Archie at the end of the 2014 season. we'd be heading into Archie's 6th year, and if Archie wasn't the man, we'd be able to move on to Chris Beard this year. Instead now its a wait and see if Archie is our guy.

 

I am totally aware that you can go backwards in time and change the past. But what I'm saying is that looking back, it seems very clear to me that you could have fired Crean at any time after the 2013-2014 season. I don't want the administration to make the same mistake 2x.  Which is why i'm viewing Chris Beard as the next Brad Stevens and am adamant that if Archie doesn't get it done, we need to cut ties sooner rather than later and go after Beard. 

 

 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

5 minutes ago, Andowen1990IU said:

If you were a student at the time of the extension (I was too), it should be apparent why he got the extension. He was the most beloved man on campus. He got a team that stunk the three years prior and took IU to the first sweet sixteen in a decade and had the number one team in the country going into 2013.

If you saw the clear and apparent issues at that time, especially if as a student, then you were one of the few. 

The campus literally had so much energy because of the basketball team. haha.

It was frustrating arguing my point in 2013 when he was extended. No one wanted to listen... The single biggest thing that turned me off of Crean was him not allowing Matt Roth to come back for the 2012-2013 team in favor of giving a spot to Jerimiah April. Also I had talked to a few people close to the program and it wasn't hard to find out the Crean was full of BS. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,370]

Talking about Crean and BS.

I was listening to a Keion Brooks interview yesterday and they ask why Kentucky? I’m paraphrasing here but he said something to the effect of Calipari and a straight shooter never told him any lies and that he was going to have to come in and work hard, and he was right.

So naturally, with Indiana being a finalist, you think, we’ll Archie is a straight shooter too. At least I believe him to be way more than Crean and most other coaches.

Anyway, thought it was odd with the direction he went with that question when he could have gone any direction with it.

Anyone else hear it?


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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,370]

Talking about Crean and BS.

I was listening to a Keion Brooks interview yesterday and they ask why Kentucky? I’m paraphrasing here but he said something to the effect of Calipari and a straight shooter never told him any lies and that he was going to have to come in and work hard, and he was right.

So naturally, with Indiana being a finalist, you think, we’ll Archie is a straight shooter too. At least I believe him to be way more than Crean and most other coaches.

Anyway, thought it was odd with the direction he went with that question when he could have gone any direction with it.

Anyone else hear it?


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Also, I guess saying “they have a great bag man” wasn’t an option. But he still could have gone so many other ways.


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