State of the program

[Brass Cannon]

4 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

Seriously. Recruiting criticisms? Two outta three classes with a 5* player. Hell, CAM has only 3 classes period. A mid-major coach comes in to a program that has lost its luster to most of everyone outside of the state and you are expecting him to be able to load up on top 50 players. Besides, after the top 30 or so, rankings are pure guesswork. Look at the programs that offered or was considering Galloway and Leal. Not like it was bottom feeders.

TJD wasn’t a 5 star

[Hurryin' Hoosiers]

I know he was a 5 star at one point.  At the very least, he is borderline 5 star.

[BGleas]

10 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

Seriously. Recruiting criticisms? Two outta three classes with a 5* player. Hell, CAM has only 3 classes period. A mid-major coach comes in to a program that has lost its luster to most of everyone outside of the state and you are expecting him to be able to load up on top 50 players. Besides, after the top 30 or so, rankings are pure guesswork. Look at the programs that offered or was considering Galloway and Leal. Not like it was bottom feeders.

Wow, take a post out of context much? I never said 'load up on top 50 players'. I'd love Archie to get to a point where there are 3-4 guys on the roster consistently that were ranked in that 20-50 range, and then keep surrounding those guys with what he's doing (the Phinisee, Franklin, Leal, Race Thompson and Galloway's of the world). While it is a crapshoot, the crapshoot is a lot less unpredictable in the 20-50 range than it is in the 100-150 range. 

To repeat myself, I love the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway, etc. recruitments, and I said I'm a big Archie supporter. I was basically looking for something to criticize and if I have to come up with one in terms of recruiting that is it. 

[Uspshoosier]

TJD wasn’t a 5 star

2 out of 3 classes with a McDonald’s All-American. Does that make it sound better


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

The big question is, will 3 star players with heart and desire outcompete the 5 star guys trying to move along ASAP.

I’m curious to find out. What’s even better is when you find the Yogi’s, Zeller’s that are both top end talented, want to win just as bad.

I think Thomas Bryant would have been that. He just was seriously misused his 2nd year.


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[mdn82]

Wow, take a post out of context much? I never said 'load up on top 50 players'. I'd love Archie to get to a point where there are 3-4 guys on the roster consistently that were ranked in that 20-50 range, and then keep surrounding those guys with what he's doing (the Phinisee, Franklin, Leal, Race Thompson and Galloway's of the world). While it is a crapshoot, the crapshoot is a lot less unpredictable in the 20-50 range than it is in the 100-150 range. 

To repeat myself, I love the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway, etc. recruitments, and I said I'm a big Archie supporter. I was basically looking for something to criticize and if I have to come up with one in terms of recruiting that is it. 

And what you are suggesting was mainly the Nova model for years. They have improved to where their bottom players are still top 75 or 100 for most part. But every year they supplement with usually 2 top 50. I think last year was more that approach. I think this year would have too if we got Brooks. Next year I know we want four but I see us with three. 2021 I see us getting back to that model.

 

 

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[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

To your point, kind of where I'm at is that I really, really like the Galloway and Leal commitments. Really happy with those, same as with guys like Franklin and Phinisee. Love those guys and think they'll all have positive impacts on the program, obviously Phinisee already is, and all have the chance to develop into great players. 

But, I think for Archie/IU to build a consistently winning program, you have to put those aforementioned guys around a team of 3-4 guys that are ranked in that 20-50 range (TJD, Hunter, Yogi, Bryant, Zeller, etc.). The UVA, Villanova and even UNC model. A consistent pipeline of borderline McDonald's All-American's surrounded by these lower ranked, but still really skilled and smart role players. The you sprinkle in the occasional Langford. 

I'm on record as an Archie supporter, I think he has the ability to end up being the long-term guy at IU. If I have a recruiting criticism right now it's that he's crushing the Franklin, Phinisee, Leal, Galloway types, but I don't think we're getting enough, yet anyways, of the TJD's, Hunter's and then going back the Yogi's, Bryant's, Creek's, Watford's, etc. The kind of 'star' power guys that stay 2-4 years.

P.S. I hate to make it all about rankings, but it just makes it easier to frame the conversation. 

  

 

32 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

And what you are suggesting was mainly the Nova model for years. They have improved to where their bottom players are still top 75 or 100 for most part. But every year they supplement with usually 2 top 50. I think last year was more that approach. I think this year would have too if we got Brooks. Next year I know we want four but I see us with three. 2021 I see ya getting back to that model.


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As is being alluded to here, 2021 offers a huge opportunity in state to follow that model. Lander, Furst, and Kaufman would fit that mold perfectly.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Brooks was expected to be a Hoosier by i think everyone, including coaches. That one hurt perception, but may not have a long term effect. It would’ve made us a better projected team for sure, but who really knows.


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[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Brooks was expected to be a Hoosier by i think everyone, including coaches. That one hurt perception, but may not have a long term effect. It would’ve made us a better projected team for sure, but who really knows.


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If Hunter is the real deal then we might not feel that miss too badly at least 

[mdn82]

If Hunter is the real deal then we might not feel that miss too badly at least 

If he is healthy I could see him having a Mo Creek type impact as a freshman (RS?). He could be that guy that gives us 12-15.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

No, the insiders said Kentucky had pulled ahead down the stretch. I didn’t expect Brooks to go to IU the day he announced.

True, but tides turned strongly at a certain point. Coaches thought we had him. Ask Schilling. I was told by 2 sources relatively close he would pick Indiana (not during announcement day but early in the recruitment). The losing streak and the Twitter vitriol seemed to have an effect.

 

 

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[Old Friend]

3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

If Hunter is the real deal then we might not feel that miss too badly at least 

Hunter is absolutely the real deal if he's healthy.    If he's healthy and 100% through the pre-season so he can integrate, I think he'll be our  best player before long.

[Uspshoosier]

True, but tides turned strongly at a certain point. Coaches thought we had him. Ask Schilling. I was told by 2 sources relatively close he would pick Indiana (not during announcement day but early in the recruitment). The losing streak and the Twitter vitriol seemed to have an effect.
 
 
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Can’t speak on Schilling but when people on twitter and the other board were saying that IU coaches were confident about brooks, snow jumped in and made it clear that not one coaching staff of the teams recruiting him were very confident at that time. He made that point several times. You guys from Fort Wayne nailed it early on by saying Kentucky would always be a serious contender and turns out you guys were right. I read it as a Sparty/IU battle


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[mdn82]

Can’t speak on Schilling but when people on twitter and the other board were saying that IU coaches were confident about brooks, snow jumped in and made it clear that not one coaching staff of the teams recruiting him were very confident at that time. He made that point several times. You guys from Fort Wayne nailed it early on by saying Kentucky would always be a serious contender and turns out you guys were right. I read it as a Sparty/IU battle

 

 

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Yeah that’s one I got pushback for early when nobody was saying Kentucky. I was really surprised the national media didn’t pick up on that one quicker. It wasn’t a huge secret and openly discussed at Spiece regularly. I do believe our season played a role in not getting him as Wayne does I am sure. That’s the biggest thing I dislike from last year. But everything happens for a reason. We will see.

 

 

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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Yeah that’s one I got pushback for early when nobody was saying Kentucky. I was really surprised the national media didn’t pick up on that one quicker. It wasn’t a huge secret and openly discussed at Spiece regularly. I do believe our season played a role in not getting him as Wayne does I am sure. That’s the biggest thing I dislike from last year. But everything happens for a reason. We will see.
 
 
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Agree with all. That Calipari visit resonated with the city. However Brooks was quoted and told to me through HS friends that he wanted to do what Romeo did. At THAT point of the Romeo commitment we were the heavy leaders.

UK, LaLU, and such, I don’t rule anything out. One of the things most fascinating to me about this upcoming season is how Brooks PT will play out at UK.




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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Can’t speak on Schilling but when people on twitter and the other board were saying that IU coaches were confident about brooks, snow jumped in and made it clear that not one coaching staff of the teams recruiting him were very confident at that time. He made that point several times. You guys from Fort Wayne nailed it early on by saying Kentucky would always be a serious contender and turns out you guys were right. I read it as a Sparty/IU battle


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Sparty was option 2 until UK struck out enough to emphasize Brooks as a priority recruit.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Sparty was option 2 until UK struck out enough to emphasize Brooks as a priority recruit.


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Kinda like Blackmon and Booker recruitment. We got Blackmon the same way we didn’t get Brooks.

Well, plus Mama wanted him closer.


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