IU v OSU BTT Thread

[Golfman25 6,223]

1 hour ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

I agree.  What I don’t understand is that we have a guy (Race) that albeit undersized has shown that he is more than willing to mix it up and he doesn’t see the court.  I like Juwan and I get that he is playing out of position but he has shown repeatedly he can’t match up against legit big men.  He kind of just goes away.  He showed that today a number of times.

Race got slapped around like a nat the few seconds he was in.  We needed Davis to match up against the big butts.  

As frustrated as I was, all is not lost.  I have the feeling that CAM had the team focus only on defense  once conference play started and our defensive weakness was exposed.  Defense definitely got better.  But offense and shoot went to crap.  Offense Just started to come back the last few weeks. I'm betting they put a little more work towards that.  CAM has to understand that you can't be one dimensional in the BIG. He needs to fix that.  He needs big improvement next year   

I think Romeo's a questionmark.  Will all depend on NBA scouts view of his potential, today after a year of college.  I myself think he's at least 1, if not 2, years away.  NBA has some big dudes.   If he's a top pick, he takes the money.  If not, who knows.  

[Bowhunter 2,887]

I still wish Archie would have played Morgan more at the 4 with Davis at the 5 today. When we found out Smith was having another bad outing, it would have been nice to try that.


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

I talked to some after the game and they weren't happy.  Problem is, the people in charge couldn't possibly care less.

You got it

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[8bucks 6,917]

As good as Morgan is, we suffer when we lean on him to be our #1. Romeo only had a few flashes but he really did not seem comfortable as the #1 either. And yet those were our drivers for the bulk of the year.

Do we have a #1 or #2 guy on the roster? I think we have 2 that are more suited to it but struggle for different reasons.

Green would love the be the #1 but he can’t seem to be consistent enough and at times does too many questionable things. Plus he does not seem to be an Archie guy.

Rob seems more comfortable as a #2 and occasionally as the #1 but his injury really set him back.

Those 2 are all we’ve got there. I like that Rob is young and as he develops he can have great games scorning, defending or passing. His future is bright.

We need more help here though at the top because even if Green works out he has 1 year left. Could Al move into that role? If it were me, I would have had Al be our primary 3pt shooter this year. Look for that first and foremost. Become our leading outside shooter. Too often, like the others, he wanted to drive. Had he been able to be our best shooter and a real weapon he might have been able to find a role as a top player. Right now he is ok at a lot of things. I would love to see him become great at a few things.

Then we need big improvements from the rest of the guys. Race, Jake or Moore. So far they have not played enough to show that we can hope for a big jump next year.


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[cbp4iu 1,970]

I have a soft spot for Smith(my preseason favorite player) I thought he was going to be our Watford. Unfortunately he has no shot and is playing out of position but too slow to play a wing position. Depending on who IU brings in I could see Smith only getting 8-10 minutes a game next year. TJD DeRon Race will take the bulk of the minutes. IU has to get more shooting. Less weight room more shooting this off season. It should be mandatory 400 shots a day this summer. Guards 200 threes 100 12-14 footers and 100 free throws. 

[Old Friend 8,505]

2 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

So when will Glass be fired?  And why hasn't he been fired already?

Because he is doing his job as defined by the president and board of trustees.   IU is in the black and many bought into his athlete bill of rights and guaranteeing scholarships...signing off on it, even.   

[mdn82 25,765]

IU can’t keep losing in football and basketball without consequences. Even its fans and boosters have their limits for what they will tolerate. Glass is already getting booed at home games.

When? I was at 7 home games this year and I didn’t see it. Maybe at one of the games in the midst of the losing streak but I personally have not seen it at any game I have been too. I am guessing if it did happen it’s not exactly the aha moment you are looking for. Not exactly widespread at all.

 

Edit: I have seen Green and Smith booed at games. Where he sits is far away from the students. They don’t typically put him on the board unless he is doing something at halftime. Fred Glass is not a focal point at all at any basketball game.

 

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[RaceToTheTop 28,086]

6 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

We are far less talented than most assume. Many Hoosier fans thought Morgan was a lock first team all B1G when he was in fact honorable mention. Then we act like the injuries didnt make a difference.

Our starting point guard was a 136th ranked freshman and Al Durham was like 250th by 247 composite.  

Reality check:  We had exactly three players on our roster that were top 100 recruits by 247 when they entered IU.  Juwan Morgan wasn't....he was at 117.  Phinnissee wasn't....he was at 136.

The guys ranked in the top 100 were Langford, De'ron Davis (at 40), Jerome Hunter (at 59), and Justin Smith (78).  Davis was coming off a torn ACL and still isn't capable of playing big minutes.  Hunter didn't play a minute. 

We all love Juwan Morgan....but how much of that is based on the fact that he gets so much out of what he has and not from the fact that he is actually an ultra gifted player?

 

[RaceToTheTop 28,086]

4 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

So when will Glass be fired?  And why hasn't he been fired already?

I'm an optimist.  I see Glass as half-fired.

[RaceToTheTop 28,086]

9 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

When? I was at 7 home games this year and I didn’t see it. Maybe at one of the games in the midst of the losing streak but I personally have not seen it at any game I have been too. I am guessing if it did happen it’s not exactly the aha moment you are looking for. Not exactly widespread at all.

 

Edit: I have seen Green and Smith booed at games. Where he sits is far away from the students. They don’t typically put him on the board unless he is doing something at halftime. Fred Glass is not a focal point at all at any basketball game.

 

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I think the fan base has been very bad toward DeVonte Green.  He certainly plays out of control on quite a few occasions, but I never doubted his effort.  And his ceiling is high.

[RaceToTheTop 28,086]

30 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

IU can’t keep losing in football and basketball without consequences. Even its fans and boosters have their limits for what they will tolerate. Glass is already getting booed at home games.

Honestly, forget the hiring of Miller as something that he should ever be fired for.  We can be revisionist, but nationally people in the know felt like it was a good hire.

The unforgivable offense was the hiring of Tom Allen.  That is no basic due diligence.

[Old Friend 8,505]

18 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

IU can’t keep losing in football and basketball without consequences. Even its fans and boosters have their limits for what they will tolerate. Glass is already getting booed at home games.

I don't disagree with any of that.  I was simply answering the question "why isn't he fired yet?"

Here's the thing.   Regardless of how upset fans are, Indiana consistently ranks within the top 10-20 in money collected by its athletic fundraising arm....in our case, the Varsity Club.    Indiana Sports Properties is still one of the wealthiest in the country.  This is fueled almost entirely by our rabid fan base.   The boosters may have their limits, but they have not yet spoken with their donations or lack thereof.  So..what limits are there?   We don't yet know.

Our president keeps score with money and stature.   Not wins and losses or true successes.   Hence, the Kelly School's drop in status; the influx of east coast kids and their dollars; as you mentioned, drop in status and results with men's basketball; firing a winning football coach because he wasn't politically correct and treated the precious athletes like a meanie.  

Look no further than the school in Lafayette.  They hire a president who's a true leader FROM Indiana who expects and demands excellence throughout the university.  Indiana has an Austrailian dude who couldn't care less about sports or IU's tradition; and who doesn't realize or care that his most marketable entity (and it's not close) is men's basketball.  I think Archie cares and I think Glass cares. I also think Glass and McRobbie screwed the pooch with the athlete bill of rights, and I find it laughable that Glass is surprised nobody else has followed suit.   Glass is a problem...no doubt.   But the root of it?  The core?    It's McRobbie and it's the board of trustees.

The last thing I want right now is Archie Miller to be fired or even worried about it.   What I DO want are people like McRobbie; Dr. Michael Mirro; Pat Shoulders and that stupid mustache of his, Harry Gonso, and Donna Spears (who is an "associate broker" with Coldwell Banker.   Yes....she is a realty assistant and a trustee of Indiana University) to give a damn.   To care about excellence throughout the university.  I want Quinn Buckner to speak up instead of giggle like Dr. Hibbert on The Simpsons.   I want Cindy Simon-Skjodt to demand excellence in the building she just spent $45 million improving.  I want the athlete bill of rights torn up and athletes to be held accountable.  I want coaches to be unafraid to hold their players accountable and unafraid of the crap that comes from the snowflakes who don't want their babies yelled at by coaches dependent on their performance in order to keep their jobs.

The problems at IU definitely include Fred Glass; but they are hardly limited to him.   Pat Shoulders and Michael McRobbie are far worse culprits.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

IU can’t keep losing in football and basketball without consequences. Even its fans and boosters have their limits for what they will tolerate. Glass is already getting booed at home games.

Who is going to hold glass accountable? The president?

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[RaceToTheTop 28,086]

I....gulp.....agree with Old Friend.

[RaceToTheTop 28,086]

6 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

Who is going to hold glass accountable? The president?

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Donors.

[yogisballin 2,408]

Race got slapped around like a nat the few seconds he was in.  We needed Davis to match up against the big butts.  
As frustrated as I was, all is not lost.  I have the feeling that CAM had the team focus only on defense  once conference play started and our defensive weakness was exposed.  Defense definitely got better.  But offense and shoot went to crap.  Offense Just started to come back the last few weeks. I'm betting they put a little more work towards that.  CAM has to understand that you can't be one dimensional in the BIG. He needs to fix that.  He needs big improvement next year   
I think Romeo's a questionmark.  Will all depend on NBA scouts view of his potential, today after a year of college.  I myself think he's at least 1, if not 2, years away.  NBA has some big dudes.   If he's a top pick, he takes the money.  If not, who knows.  

I think he’s at least 1 year away myself. You get physical with him he’s nowhere near aggressive and kinda checks out for a bit.


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[yogisballin 2,408]

I don't disagree with any of that.  I was simply answering the question "why isn't he fired yet?"
Here's the thing.   Regardless of how upset fans are, Indiana consistently ranks within the top 10-20 in money collected by its athletic fundraising arm....in our case, the Varsity Club.    Indiana Sports Properties is still one of the wealthiest in the country.  This is fueled almost entirely by our rabid fan base.   The boosters may have their limits, but they have not yet spoken with their donations or lack thereof.  So..what limits are there?   We don't yet know.
Our president keeps score with money and stature.   Not wins and losses or true successes.   Hence, the Kelly School's drop in status; the influx of east coast kids and their dollars; as you mentioned, drop in status and results with men's basketball; firing a winning football coach because he wasn't politically correct and treated the precious athletes like a meanie.  
Look no further than the school in Lafayette.  They hire a president who's a true leader FROM Indiana who expects and demands excellence throughout the university.  Indiana has an Austrailian dude who couldn't care less about sports or IU's tradition; and who doesn't realize or care that his most marketable entity (and it's not close) is men's basketball.  I think Archie cares and I think Glass cares. I also think Glass and McRobbie screwed the pooch with the athlete bill of rights, and I find it laughable that Glass is surprised nobody else has followed suit.   Glass is a problem...no doubt.   But the root of it?  The core?    It's McRobbie and it's the board of trustees.
The last thing I want right now is Archie Miller to be fired or even worried about it.   What I DO want are people like McRobbie; Dr. Michael Mirro; Pat Shoulders and that stupid mustache of his, Harry Gonso, and Donna Spears (who is an "associate broker" with Coldwell Banker.   Yes....she is a realty assistant and a trustee of Indiana University) to give a damn.   To care about excellence throughout the university.  I want Quinn Buckner to speak up instead of giggle like Dr. Hibbert on The Simpsons.   I want Cindy Simon-Skjodt to demand excellence in the building she just spent $45 million improving.  I want the athlete bill of rights torn up and athletes to be held accountable.  I want coaches to be unafraid to hold their players accountable and unafraid of the crap that comes from the snowflakes who don't want their babies yelled at by coaches dependent on their performance in order to keep their jobs.
The problems at IU definitely include Fred Glass; but they are hardly limited to him.   Pat Shoulders and Michael McRobbie are far worse culprits.

Nice ole buddy


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[JSHoosier 21,467]

8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

I don't disagree with any of that.  I was simply answering the question "why isn't he fired yet?"

Here's the thing.   Regardless of how upset fans are, Indiana consistently ranks within the top 10-20 in money collected by its athletic fundraising arm....in our case, the Varsity Club.    Indiana Sports Properties is still one of the wealthiest in the country.  This is fueled almost entirely by our rabid fan base.   The boosters may have their limits, but they have not yet spoken with their donations or lack thereof.  So..what limits are there?   We don't yet know.

Our president keeps score with money and stature.   Not wins and losses or true successes.   Hence, the Kelly School's drop in status; the influx of east coast kids and their dollars; as you mentioned, drop in status and results with men's basketball; firing a winning football coach because he wasn't politically correct and treated the precious athletes like a meanie.  

Look no further than the school in Lafayette.  They hire a president who's a true leader FROM Indiana who expects and demands excellence throughout the university.  Indiana has an Austrailian dude who couldn't care less about sports or IU's tradition; and who doesn't realize or care that his most marketable entity (and it's not close) is men's basketball.  I think Archie cares and I think Glass cares. I also think Glass and McRobbie screwed the pooch with the athlete bill of rights, and I find it laughable that Glass is surprised nobody else has followed suit.   Glass is a problem...no doubt.   But the root of it?  The core?    It's McRobbie and it's the board of trustees.

The last thing I want right now is Archie Miller to be fired or even worried about it.   What I DO want are people like McRobbie; Dr. Michael Mirro; Pat Shoulders and that stupid mustache of his, Harry Gonso, and Donna Spears (who is an "associate broker" with Coldwell Banker.   Yes....she is a realty assistant and a trustee of Indiana University) to give a damn.   To care about excellence throughout the university.  I want Quinn Buckner to speak up instead of giggle like Dr. Hibbert on The Simpsons.   I want Cindy Simon-Skjodt to demand excellence in the building she just spent $45 million improving.  I want the athlete bill of rights torn up and athletes to be held accountable.  I want coaches to be unafraid to hold their players accountable and unafraid of the crap that comes from the snowflakes who don't want their babies yelled at by coaches dependent on their performance in order to keep their jobs.

The problems at IU definitely include Fred Glass; but they are hardly limited to him.   Pat Shoulders and Michael McRobbie are far worse culprits.

Oh, I definitely agree that Glass isn't the only problem.  I'd prefer to get rid of him and start addressing said problems, but of I'm being honest we're stuck with him because of the other problems.

[HoosierDYT 1,757]

Not to be that guy, but don’t we have a thread specifically to complain about Fred Glass?

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,505]

30 minutes ago, HoosierDYT said:

Not to be that guy, but don’t we have a thread specifically to complain about Fred Glass?

 

 

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Sometimes conversations morph.    Better to just deal with it and don't be "that guy."

Do you eat all of one thing on your plate before moving to the next thing?    Do you truly expect people to say "oh....there's a thread about this..let's go there?"   Sometimes...conversations change topic and direction.