So some concerns I’m having...

[Bailey7878]

Who was expecting to win a title this year?  How about just expecting consistent effort and intensity?  Or an offense that actually makes some sense?  We don't have that, 1.5 years in.

I expected 20 wins and an ncaa berth. Very realistic goals.

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[Old Friend]

10 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Meh I’ve made my thoughts on Dakich clear. “Knight guy” is just an excuse.

Expectations are a product of reality. Expecting to win the championship this year isn’t going to make it real. We need to build back to that. Program needs a cultural foundation to build from.


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No. His being a Knight guy is why he wasn't considered.  You may not know the story, but it's far more than an excuse.   There is a chronological sequence of events that began in September of 2000 that have led us directly to the point we are now.  These things happened.  Decisions were made for reasons, not all of which have been made public, but no less accurate.   Indiana University has itself and only itself, the board of trustees,  the presidents it's hired, and its policies to blame for the state of the basketball program.  

[Old Friend]

44 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Ball screen, dribble right. Ball screen dribble right. Ball screen dribble left. Dribble hand off. After all of that the ball ends up where it started at the top of the arc. That is my concern. I get that he's trying to run the pick n roll but to see the same thing ran for 75% of the game it makes it real easy to game plan against. Now with that being said I could live with a somewhat inept offense if the defense were elite.....but it's not. I'm going to give Archie some more time but I'll admit with each passing game he is losing me more and more. As for this season I'm just apathetic at this point and that is the most concerning thing of all to me personally.

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"Same as everybody else."    

[Old Friend]

4 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Dakich would have been a disaster for this program. He was mediocre at Bowling Green and went 3-4 as interim coach at IU.

You can win without being an abusive a-hole. Do Jay Wright and Tony Bennett look like maniacs? 

I don't disagree with this, and regardless of what I have said above, he isn't and wasn't ever the guy I wanted hired.  But....     Blue blood programs like Duke and North Carolina who have generally kept things "in the family" have had a large amount of success Indiana simply has not.   UCLA has not.  Dakich's comments I agree with are the ones when he says we have become just like everyone else.  We had a culture.  We had expectations.  The University let the drop in favor of east coast money, "diversity," "bigger names," and myriad other reasons.  

I will say this, however.  Mike Davis was also a disaster for this program. Kelvin Sampson was also a disaster for this program.  In some ways, Crean was a disaster for this program.  I didn't ever want Dakich either, but he would have been no worse than who we hired.    We bring back Michael Lewis?  Dane Fife?  Someone like that as the hire if Archie doesn't get it done in a couple of years?  We'll be better off than we have been.  I know many if not most will disagree, but I'm convinced.  There's a culture at Indiana that's been largely ignored for 2 decades and look where we are.

[Feathery]

11 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I don't disagree with this, and regardless of what I have said above, he isn't and wasn't ever the guy I wanted hired.  But....     Blue blood programs like Duke and North Carolina who have generally kept things "in the family" have had a large amount of success Indiana simply has not.   UCLA has not.  Dakich's comments I agree with are the ones when he says we have become just like everyone else.  We had a culture.  We had expectations.  The University let the drop in favor of east coast money, "diversity," "bigger names," and myriad other reasons.  

I will say this, however.  Mike Davis was also a disaster for this program. Kelvin Sampson was also a disaster for this program.  In some ways, Crean was a disaster for this program.  I didn't ever want Dakich either, but he would have been no worse than who we hired.    We bring back Michael Lewis?  Dane Fife?  Someone like that as the hire if Archie doesn't get it done in a couple of years?  We'll be better off than we have been.  I know many if not most will disagree, but I'm convinced.  There's a culture at Indiana that's been largely ignored for 2 decades and look where we are.

Why not just hire Fife or Lewis as assistants and give them a pay raise. I’ve felt like every time a new coach has came in here, they paid lip service to the past but never embraced it. I’m hopeful that Archie will bring in a guy like Lewis as his staff changes over the years. 

[HoosierAloha]

Why not just hire Fife or Lewis as assistants and give them a pay raise. I’ve felt like every time a new coach has came in here, they paid lip service to the past but never embraced it. I’m hopeful that Archie will bring in a guy like Lewis as his staff changes over the years. 

Lewis, I agree with. I’d love to have Fife on the staff but don’t see it happening. Now, if Fife and Archie were on the same page from day 1 I could see that working out well. Unfortunately, I believe Fife will be the next head coach at MSU when the current head turd steps down.


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[mdn82]

I don't disagree with this, and regardless of what I have said above, he isn't and wasn't ever the guy I wanted hired.  But....     Blue blood programs like Duke and North Carolina who have generally kept things "in the family" have had a large amount of success Indiana simply has not.   UCLA has not.  Dakich's comments I agree with are the ones when he says we have become just like everyone else.  We had a culture.  We had expectations.  The University let the drop in favor of east coast money, "diversity," "bigger names," and myriad other reasons.  
I will say this, however.  Mike Davis was also a disaster for this program. Kelvin Sampson was also a disaster for this program.  In some ways, Crean was a disaster for this program.  I didn't ever want Dakich either, but he would have been no worse than who we hired.    We bring back Michael Lewis?  Dane Fife?  Someone like that as the hire if Archie doesn't get it done in a couple of years?  We'll be better off than we have been.  I know many if not most will disagree, but I'm convinced.  There's a culture at Indiana that's been largely ignored for 2 decades and look where we are.

I think only North Carolina has kept it in the family. They were blessed with Guthridge and Doherty before getting Williams. Duke hasn’t kept it in the family unless you mean assistant coaches. Then sure. But there is zero chance of us firing Archie and then hiring an assistant no matter where they went to college at.


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[yogisballin]

Sounds like Race is going to play this season after all. Archie said we are looking to use him down the stretch if we need him.


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IF we need him? Seriously?


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[yogisballin]

Disagree.   He's not there because of things well beyond his knowledge.  He never had a chance at the job  because he was a Knight guy and because IU's administration was convinced Tom Crean was their guy,  Had zero to do with whether or not he had the answers.  He's absolutely spot on as far as I'm concerned and I don't have any idea why so many people think he's wrong.  We've tried it every other way we can, and look where the program is.  You're selling him way short if you believe his answers are created sitting at a desk.  Not like he played and coached at Indiana for 18 years or whatever it was.

I’m with you and Dakich on this. Don’t really understand why people get so upset at him either. Truth hurts maybe? Idk...


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[yogisballin]

Ball screen, dribble right. Ball screen dribble right. Ball screen dribble left. Dribble hand off. After all of that the ball ends up where it started at the top of the arc. That is my concern. I get that he's trying to run the pick n roll but to see the same thing ran for 75% of the game it makes it real easy to game plan against. Now with that being said I could live with a somewhat inept offense if the defense were elite.....but it's not. I'm going to give Archie some more time but I'll admit with each passing game he is losing me more and more. As for this season I'm just apathetic at this point and that is the most concerning thing of all to me personally.

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It sounds like we are in the same boat with Archie bc this is how I feel. He hasn’t lost me just yet. I am not making excuses for anyone here boys but the fact of the matter is. Talent just isn’t there and what pieces were using, just doesn’t work well with one another. We have no way to stretch the floor. It’s really this simple, we are too easy to guard. I said this after the Arkansas game and got slammed for it.


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[yogisballin]

It sounds like we are in the same boat with Archie bc this is how I feel. He hasn’t lost me just yet. I am not making excuses for anyone here boys but the fact of the matter is. Talent just isn’t there and what pieces were using, just doesn’t work well with one another. We have no way to stretch the floor. It’s really this simple, we are too easy to guard. I said this after the Arkansas game and got slammed for it.


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Also if you watch our guys close enough on offense (I get it, it’s very hard to do lol) but our guys don’t cut, set screens, etc with a purpose/passion. We’re “going through the motions” more or less


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[cthomas]

37 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

We’re “going through the motions” more or less

You mean like most AAU games are played? The danger in recruiting the top kids is that they are more interested in auditioning for their next stop than being a part of a college team. The degree to which Langford succeeds here will influence whether other similar kids want to play here in my opinion. We seem to be caught between wanting the best players available and wanting a disciplined, structured basketball team that plays with a discernible purpose. I'm not sure those two things are compatible in today's environment.

[Old Friend]

2 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I think only North Carolina has kept it in the family. They were blessed with Guthridge and Doherty before getting Williams. Duke hasn’t kept it in the family unless you mean assistant coaches. Then sure. But there is zero chance of us firing Archie and then hiring an assistant no matter where they went to college at.


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Duke has hired a lot of Duke players to stay part of the program....and UNC has always had lots of their former players around that program, too.   There are 5 true blue blood college basketball programs and 2 of them have a long history of cheating.  UCLA and Kentucky.  The other 3 are Duke, North Carolina, and Indiana.   There are lots of teams and programs that have achieved a high level in the last 30 years, but go back 60-70 years.  That's the list.  Indiana has lost a lot of luster for many reasons in my mind.  One of those is going far away from our culture in favor of Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson, and Tom Crean.  Jury out on Miller, but we look awful at the moment.

[DChoosier]

6 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

 

Honestly I think Dakich would have been a better hire than Crean. Because Dakich isn’t going to do his own PR to help get a pass his first 3 years, therefore if he didn’t produce, he’d be fired pretty quickly, allowing us to hire someone else


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Every and any coach would have been given a pass and not fired those first three years. 

[Josh]

I wanted a coach who could take 5 random players and beat another team through strong coaching and knowledge of basketball.  Even Archie's supporters admit that he must have far superior talent to win a game.  That's not even coaching, that's just recruiting and praying.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

I wanted a coach who could take 5 random players and beat another team through strong coaching and knowledge of basketball.  Even Archie's supporters admit that he must have far superior talent to win a game.  That's not even coaching, that's just recruiting and praying.

I don’t think I have seen anybody claim that Archie requires more talented players in order to win

[Walking Boot of Doom]

I wanted a coach who could take 5 random players and beat another team through strong coaching and knowledge of basketball.  Even Archie's supporters admit that he must have far superior talent to win a game.  That's not even coaching, that's just recruiting and praying.

This ain’t Hickory basketball my friend. College basketball doesn’t work that way.


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[mdn82]

Duke has hired a lot of Duke players to stay part of the program....and UNC has always had lots of their former players around that program, too.   There are 5 true blue blood college basketball programs and 2 of them have a long history of cheating.  UCLA and Kentucky.  The other 3 are Duke, North Carolina, and Indiana.   There are lots of teams and programs that have achieved a high level in the last 30 years, but go back 60-70 years.  That's the list.  Indiana has lost a lot of luster for many reasons in my mind.  One of those is going far away from our culture in favor of Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson, and Tom Crean.  Jury out on Miller, but we look awful at the moment.

I would certainly put Kansas on that list. I get what you are saying, but Duke has done everything they have done in the last 30 years. They really weren’t only hiring from within until the last 20-25 years. So I can’t go back 60-70 years with them. 2 out of the 5 Bluebloods you have stated and I would clearly add Kansas due to their 3 titles and overall history hire assistants from within. Only UNC has done that mostly regularly longer than 30 years. So I guess I am not really sure of the overall significance of two teams doing it. Syracuse does it as well. I wouldn’t consider them a Blueblood or think that has elevated them. I think Duke over the last 30 years has got 2 really solid players as assistants and a third ok one that have all been head coaches. Knight really didn’t have any that would be worthy of being here. Just not sure we have many viable options as assistant under CAM that is from the Knight tree. I don’t really consider Fife since he played one year under Knight. Lewis? He doesn’t come up often as a recruiter or in game coaching assistant so I will be honest and say I don’t know where his role would be. I just don’t see where a net positive is in bringing in a person that their upper hand on a job is they played at IU twenty years ago. IU today is very different than 20 years ago. Hell RMK would tell you IU in the 90s was nothing like the 70s. We are at a point we have to build a new legacy much like Knight did after Branch. Too much of a gap between eras for Lewis or Fife to tell a player how great it was when they were there. Lewis at the end of the Knight era and Fife mainly playing for Mike Davis. I am not sure they understand the IU basketball you are imagining either OF.


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[Stuhoo]

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

Even Archie's supporters admit that he must have far superior talent to win a game.  That's not even coaching, that's just recruiting and praying.

 

^^Whaaa...?? ^^

• That IU team that started Freddie McSwain at center, walk-on Zach at SF, and Devonte at PG last year and went 9-9 in the B1G had "superior talent?" 
• Those teams he put into the tourney year after year at Dayton (and went as far as the elite 8) without ever having a top 100 recruit had some "superior talent?"

 

 

[Josh]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t think I have seen anybody claim that Archie requires more talented players in order to win

I've seen it a thousand times.  People here excuse the losing because of our roster.  Nevermind that our roster is much more talented than teams that we're losing to.  We need better players?  How many all conference players do we need to beat Nebraska at home?  To quit losing to Northwestern?