MSU....Heat on Izzo?

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

So we just sacrifice the falsely accused in the name of social justice? Women aren't always the innocent damsel in distress. They can make rape allegations up, they can lie, etc. They shouldn't automatically be believed. Here's s story from a year ago. 

"Police say Nikki Yovino, 18, confessed to making up rape allegations against college football players to gain the sympathy of a prospective boyfriend. The players were later cut from the team, had their scholarships stripped and were forced into leaving the school."

https://www.google.com/amp/www.ctpost.com/local/amp/Police-Football-players-falsely-accused-of-rape-10950934.php

Pretty sure Izzo isnt heing falsely accused here if 90 percent of the rapes are happening. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Pretty sure Izzo isnt heing falsely accused here if 90 percent of the rapes are happening. 

What? I'm not talking about Izzo. A couple hours ago a poster said that the accused should be presumed guilty until found innocent in these situations, and that's what I'm arguing against. 

[Tak42]

I'm starting to feel he is going to skate. The heat has already faded some on him. Watch him go out and it all to really rub salt in the womb.


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Wound


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[BGleas]

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Pretty sure false rape accusations are somewhere around 10 percent. So that means Izzo let his players committ like 15 rapes with little to no consequence. Not really that much better

Believe me, I’m in no way supporting Izzo. His handling of this situation was terrible, and after an investigation he should suffer whatever necessary consequences. But, shouldn’t we be far more upset with the East Lansing/MSU police department? 

Izzo isn’t the one who declined to press charges on what seemed like a pretty solid case. If these guys committed this assault they should be behind bars, not running suicides at The Breslin Center. 

Why weren’t charges filed? Did the athletic department (AD and/or Izzo) influence charges not being brought against the players? Those are the questions that need answers. 

[MikeRoberts]

Believe me, I’m in no way supporting Izzo. His handling of this situation was terrible, and after an investigation he should suffer whatever necessary consequences. But, shouldn’t we be far more upset with the East Lansing/MSU police department? 
Izzo isn’t the one who declined to press charges on what seemed like a pretty solid case. If these guys committed this assault they should be behind bars, not running suicides at The Breslin Center. 
Why weren’t charges filed? Did the athletic department (AD and/or Izzo) influence charges not being brought against the players? Those are the questions that need answers. 

I have heard that pressure was applied from many angles, the school and alumni mostly. I think izzo needs to ask himself how a rape accusation gets reduced to littering or whatever, it's common sense that something fishy happened


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[HoosierAloha]

It's not even close to being that simple. Girl gets mad because you won't return her calls? Boom, false accusation. The only solution would be to avoid all contact with the opposite sex, and even then you're not completely safe. 

I completely get that. You also get the accusers who completely make something up. What I'm saying is you greatly reduce the risk by being, somewhat, smart.


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[Hoosierfan2017]

Just now, HoosierAloha said:

I completely get that. You also get the accusers who completely make something up. What I'm saying is you greatly reduce the risk by being, somewhat, smart.


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Yeah for sure. Like you said, keep away from the drugs/alcohol and you save yourself from a lot of these problems. That probably isn't a realistic thing to expect college kids to do, especially popular athletes, but it would solve a lot of the issues. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

So we just sacrifice the falsely accused in the name of social justice? Women aren't always the innocent damsel in distress. They can make rape allegations up, they can lie, etc. They shouldn't automatically be believed. Here's s story from a year ago. 
"Police say Nikki Yovino, 18, confessed to making up rape allegations against college football players to gain the sympathy of a prospective boyfriend. The players were later cut from the team, had their scholarships stripped and were forced into leaving the school."
https://www.google.com/amp/www.ctpost.com/local/amp/Police-Football-players-falsely-accused-of-rape-10950934.php

Let's not forget the Duke Lacrosse team. Falsely accused should not be punished for the misconduct of those that actually do it. I don't know what the answer is, but the innocent shouldn't be punished.
As far as this case goes, I believe they admitted to what they did, so they should have been punished then and Izzo needs to go.

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[HoosierAloha]

Yeah for sure. Like you said, keep away from the drugs/alcohol and you save yourself from a lot of these problems. That probably isn't a realistic thing to expect college kids to do, especially popular athletes, but it would solve a lot of the issues. 

I've received more sexual harassment, sexual assault, rape training than one should ever have to go through. Amirite Alaska? It also helps to have great wingmen/wingwomem looking out for you. I guess it also helped going to college as a bit older than average student.

The most important thing is to be a good human being but as we've seen in this case there are horrible people in all walks of life.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Believe me, I’m in no way supporting Izzo. His handling of this situation was terrible, and after an investigation he should suffer whatever necessary consequences. But, shouldn’t we be far more upset with the East Lansing/MSU police department? 
Izzo isn’t the one who declined to press charges on what seemed like a pretty solid case. If these guys committed this assault they should be behind bars, not running suicides at The Breslin Center. 
Why weren’t charges filed? Did the athletic department (AD and/or Izzo) influence charges not being brought against the players? Those are the questions that need answers. 

Exactly

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[ebridges24]

I just hope this doesn't conveniently go away without those that deserve to be punished, are punished.

[323SGrant]

I just hope this doesn't conveniently go away without those that deserve to be punished, punished.

IMHO that’s why Izzo is stalling and won’t answer questions about him protecting perpetrators of these crimes. It’ll probably blow over without Izzo being held accountable.


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[Bailey7878]

IMHO that’s why Izzo is stalling and won’t answer questions about him protecting perpetrators of these crimes. It’ll probably blow over without Izzo being held accountable.


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Yes nothing is going to happen to izzo.

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[HoosierDribbler]

In this case  it is obvious a sexual assault took place. Payne admits to that in the police interrogation video with him. What part Izzo played in this, who knows. Hopefully the truth will eventually come out. What a mess.

[yogisballin]

A father just tried to jump Nassar in the courtroom.  Had three daughters abused.   This is beyond messed up.  

Dear lord, I couldn’t imagine even having 1 daughter abused let alone 3


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[Walking Boot of Doom]

17 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Holy crap this is absolutely insane. I really hope you're never falsely accused of sexual misconduct. Wow. Guilty until proven innocent? This is disturbing. 

Research suggests that false reporting of sexual assault ranges between only 2-10% of cases, on par with most other criminal accusations. Research also suggests that 40-63% of sexual assaults are NEVER reported for various reasons - embarrassment, fear of the public reaction, fear that the victim won't be believed, fear of the individual who committed the assault, etc.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=297

Prosecution rates for sexual assault cases are ABYSMALLY low, so the number of "false" reports of sexual assault are also inflated by decisions of "no crime" where there was not enough evidence or the prosecution chose not to prosecute - that does not necessarily mean that the victim lied or falsely reported sexual assault.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

What I listed above is disturbing. 

Now, out of context, I understand why "guilty till proven innocent" will bother any American raised on the principles of our judicial system. The American justice system is the institutional power, therefore, the burden of proof is placed on them in order to give the accused, who posses far fewer resources and lesser influence, a fair chance. When we add to this discussion the context of college athletics, the vested interest of men who hold more power than the individuals in place to prevent sexual assault and protect victims in the innocence of the accused , and the economic power behind a thriving athletics institution, which party do you believe needs the support and the benefit of the doubt in order to have a fair chance at obtaining justice?

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

12 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Research suggests that false reporting of sexual assault ranges between only 2-10% of cases, on par with most other criminal accusations. Research also suggests that 40-63% of sexual assaults are NEVER reported for various reasons - embarrassment, fear of the public reaction, fear that the victim won't be believed, fear of the individual who committed the assault, etc.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=297

Prosecution rates for sexual assault cases are ABYSMALLY low, so the number of "false" reports of sexual assault are also inflated by decisions of "no crime" where there was not enough evidence or the prosecution chose not to prosecute - that does not necessarily mean that the victim lied or falsely reported sexual assault.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

What I listed above is disturbing. 

Now, out of context, I understand why "guilty till proven innocent" will bother any American raised on the principles of our judicial system. The American justice system is the institutional power, therefore, the burden of proof is placed on them in order to give the accused, who posses far fewer resources and lesser influence, a fair chance. When we add to this discussion the context of college athletics, the vested interest of men who hold more power than the individuals in place to prevent sexual assault and protect victims in the innocence of the accused , and the economic power behind a thriving athletics institution, which party do you believe needs the support and the benefit of the doubt in order to have a fair chance at obtaining justice?

 

I believe that when people are accused of crimes they should be considered innocent until proven guilty. I'd rather not live in a society where an accusation is all that it takes for someone's life to be ruined. And while it's not the same as going to prison, losing a scholarship and getting kicked out of school is a very steep price to pay for something you might not have even done. People in the future shouldn't have to pay for other people's sins from the past. Yeah, the Izzo's and Michigan State's of the country screwed up, but that doesn't mean a kid in the future should pay for it by being considered guilty until proven innocent. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

6 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I believe that when people are accused of crimes they should be considered innocent until proven guilty. I'd rather not live in a society where an accusation is all that it takes for someone's life to be ruined. And while it's not the same as going to prison, losing a scholarship and getting kicked out of school is a very steep price to pay for something you might not have even done. People in the future shouldn't have to pay for other people's sins from the past. Yeah, the Izzo's and Michigan State's of the country screwed up, but that doesn't mean a kid in the future should pay for it by being considered guilty until proven innocent. 

That is the current structure we live in, and that is why two men accused of rape, Keith Appling and Adrian Payne, played four years of college basketball while on scholarship, receiving praise and glory for their athletic accomplishments. The list those impacted by false accusations pales in comparison to the list of individuals who suffered no punishment for one of the most heinous crimes someone can commit. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

4 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

That is the current structure we live in, and that is why two men accused of rape, Keith Appling and Adrian Payne, played four years of college basketball while on scholarship, receiving praise and glory for their athletic accomplishments. The list those impacted by false accusations pales in comparison to the list of individuals who suffered no punishment for one of the most heinous crimes someone can commit. 

So are you willing to sacrifice some innocent people in the process? Because that's exactly what will happen. We already see it in the current system, and it would only increase under the system you're proposing. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

So are you willing to sacrifice some innocent people in the process? Because that's exactly what will happen. We already see it in the current system, and it would only increase under the system you're proposing. 

Yes.

As opposed to, in the current system, allowing the sexual assault of 321,500, on average , innocent women each year?

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

If these individuals are innocent, let there be evidence that corroborates them. It's not a solution without cost, but our current system is completely broken when dealing withe sexual assault. Why continue to operate within a broken paradigm?