Corruption in College Basketball

[Brass Cannon 25,174]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

Why would you text an Adidas rep "thank you" after a recruit committed if you had zero knowledge of what was going on....?

The adidas rep stole his phone and changes the contact to God?  Thats all ive got

[Stuhoo 85,601]

2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Why would you text an Adidas rep "thank you" after a recruit committed if you had zero knowledge of what was going on....?

"Why else would you" will not be enough to get the coaches in trouble in my opinion. If I was Self appearing before the NCCA I would say: 

"I knew that Adidas representatives had contacted various recruits and told them about how KU had the greatest fan base, facilities, coaching staff, family atmosphere, and player development. When one of those recruits committed I thanked all who informed that recruit about the positive qualities of our program. I NEVER knew there was any inappropriate financial inducement. Never."

In my opinion, coaches like Kenny Johnson (with testimony that he paid the recruit directly) have a big problem.

Louisville, which was already on double-secret probation, showed a complete lack of institutional control and has a mega-mega problem. 

Kansas and Self? Not too big of a problem.

That doesn't make KU innocent (not at all), it just makes the case against them difficult to sustain.

[JSHoosier 21,664]

I read somewhere Gassnola testified that Self had no knowledge of payments to recruits.

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

"Why else would you" will not be enough to get the coaches in trouble in my opinion. If I was Self appearing before the NCCA I would say: 

"I knew that Adidas representatives had contacted various recruits and told them about how KU had the greatest fan base, facilities, coaching staff, family atmosphere, and player development. When one of those recruits committed I thanked all who informed that recruit about the positive qualities of our program. I NEVER knew there was any inappropriate financial inducement. Never."

In my opinion, coaches like Kenny Johnson (with testimony that he paid the recruit directly) have a big problem.
Louisville, which was already on double-secret probation, showed a complete lack of institutional control and has a mega-mega problem. 
Kansas and Self? Not too big of a problem.
That doesn't make KU innocent (not at all), it just makes the case against them difficult to sustain.

I'm not saying Self had knowledge of payments or how much each recruit was costing. I'm saying Self had to have his head in the sand to not know what was going on. He won't be penalized by the NCAA but to think Self didn't know the game is awfully naive.


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[Stuhoo 85,601]

43 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I'm not saying Self had knowledge of payments or how much each recruit was costing. I'm saying Self had to have his head in the sand to not know what was going on. He won't be penalized by the NCAA but to think Self didn't know the game is awfully naive.


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Completely agree Aloha.

And that applies not just to Self; Coach K, Roy, Sean Miller, Calipari and many many many many others.

 

[DChoosier 9,222]

A little off topic but still related to cheating...

Does anyone hear anything about WWW (Worldwide Wes) anymore? There used to be a lot of articles about his “special relationship” with Scumapari/UK but the connection seems to be quiet these days.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,856]

Honestly this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg. This case won’t bring it all out.

I’m so happy that it’s happening though, so people can realize how far reaching Paying goes.

What we’ve learned (many already knew) is Paying isn’t cheating unless the coaching staff does it or knows about it. Bagley is a perfect example. I’d also love to know how Ayton got his lump sum.


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[ebridges24 2,452]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

I'm not saying Self had knowledge of payments or how much each recruit was costing. I'm saying Self had to have his head in the sand to not know what was going on. He won't be penalized by the NCAA but to think Self didn't know the game is awfully naive.


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there's no question he knew

[Class of '66 Old Fart 87,792]

The following is a series of tweets from Dan Wetzel.  Interesting tidbits that were not allowed to be admitted as evidence.  Kansas and LSU don't look so good.

In a taped conversation that was not allowed into evidence today, Adidas' Merl Code and Kansas asst Kurtis Townsend discuss the recruitment of Zion Williamson, who wound up at Duke. In arguing for admission, a transcript was read by Code defense atty Mark Moore. (thread)

New conversationDan Wetzel‏Verified account @DanWetzel 27m27 minutes ago

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Code: "Hey, but between me and you, he asked about some stuff ... I know what he's asking for. He's asking for opportunities from an occupational perspective, he's asking for cash in the pocket and he's asking for housing for him and his family."

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Kurtis Townsend: "I've got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that's what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we're going to have to do it some way."

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Because it was denied into evidence, there is limited context to it.

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Also, prevented from becoming evidence but read out in court was conversation between LSU coach Will Wade and defendant Christian Dawkins about 2019 recruit Balsa Koprivica who hails from Florida.

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One of Gatto's attorneys, Casey Donnelly, said this: "[Wade] is commenting to Christian Dawkins that he can get him what he needs – meaning money – if a player from Florida, Balsa Koprivica, plays for LSU."

From the call, per Donnelly. Dawkins: "Would you want Balsa?" Wade: "Oh, the big kid?" Dawkins: "OK, but there is other [expletive] involved in it." Wade: "I've got to shut the door … I can get you what you need but it's got to work."

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Donnelly's summation: "Dawkins would have heard a Division I head coach say, 'if you send Balsa to me, I will make sure you get this money." Again, because it was not allowed into evidence, the conversation lacks some context and likely detail.

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Also Tuesday, evidence of Adidas approving a $1,200 payment in 2016 to a "handler" of Markelle Fultz while he was still at Washington. Also denied from evidence.

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Text exchange between Louisville asst Kenny Johnson and head coach Rick Pitino concerning Brian "Tugs" Bowen. Johnson: "Coach, DePaul is trying to pay Bowen $200,000 to come there. Crazy world! Oregon, DePaul…desperate times." "Yep," Pitino responded. "We are going to be OK."

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Then there is this. Despite Bowen Sr. testifying Michigan State offered nothing for his son, he wanted Tugs to sign there. Dawkins text: "Go to Michigan State. Keep it simple." Bowen Sr. agrees but says its up to Tugs: "He just is not feeling them … I'm for MSU. It's him."

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A couple weeks later Tugs Bowen commits to Louisville as Dawkins works a deal for his dad to get $100,000. There may not even be a federal case if Tugs Bowen had just followed Jason Richardson and Draymond Green from Saginaw to MSU.

 

[tortex28 381]

Guess IU is gonna have to pay up to make sure we get Davis and Brooks lol.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,526]

The following is a series of tweets from Dan Wetzel.  Interesting tidbits that were not allowed to be admitted as evidence.  Kansas and LSU don't look so good.
In a taped conversation that was not allowed into evidence today, Adidas' Merl Code and Kansas asst Kurtis Townsend discuss the recruitment of Zion Williamson, who wound up at Duke. In arguing for admission, a transcript was read by Code defense atty Mark Moore. (thread)
New conversationDan Wetzel‏Verified account @DanWetzel 27m27 minutes ago
More
Code: "Hey, but between me and you, he asked about some stuff ... I know what he's asking for. He's asking for opportunities from an occupational perspective, he's asking for cash in the pocket and he's asking for housing for him and his family."
More
Kurtis Townsend: "I've got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that's what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we're going to have to do it some way."
More
Because it was denied into evidence, there is limited context to it.
More
Also, prevented from becoming evidence but read out in court was conversation between LSU coach Will Wade and defendant Christian Dawkins about 2019 recruit Balsa Koprivica who hails from Florida.
More
One of Gatto's attorneys, Casey Donnelly, said this: "[Wade] is commenting to Christian Dawkins that he can get him what he needs – meaning money – if a player from Florida, Balsa Koprivica, plays for LSU."
From the call, per Donnelly. Dawkins: "Would you want Balsa?" Wade: "Oh, the big kid?" Dawkins: "OK, but there is other [expletive] involved in it." Wade: "I've got to shut the door … I can get you what you need but it's got to work."
More
Donnelly's summation: "Dawkins would have heard a Division I head coach say, 'if you send Balsa to me, I will make sure you get this money." Again, because it was not allowed into evidence, the conversation lacks some context and likely detail.
More
Also Tuesday, evidence of Adidas approving a $1,200 payment in 2016 to a "handler" of Markelle Fultz while he was still at Washington. Also denied from evidence.
More
Text exchange between Louisville asst Kenny Johnson and head coach Rick Pitino concerning Brian "Tugs" Bowen. Johnson: "Coach, DePaul is trying to pay Bowen $200,000 to come there. Crazy world! Oregon, DePaul…desperate times." "Yep," Pitino responded. "We are going to be OK."
More
Then there is this. Despite Bowen Sr. testifying Michigan State offered nothing for his son, he wanted Tugs to sign there. Dawkins text: "Go to Michigan State. Keep it simple." Bowen Sr. agrees but says its up to Tugs: "He just is not feeling them … I'm for MSU. It's him."
More
A couple weeks later Tugs Bowen commits to Louisville as Dawkins works a deal for his dad to get $100,000. There may not even be a federal case if Tugs Bowen had just followed Jason Richardson and Draymond Green from Saginaw to MSU.
 

Here is an article about the tweets

https://sports.yahoo.com/zion-williamsons-kansas-recruitment-comes-hoop-scandal-trial-234727916.html
Zion Williamson's Kansas recruitment comes up in hoop scandal trial

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[Deserthoozier 1,102]

Legal minds -  pls explain how it is that all of the stuff above is being denied to be submitted into evidence?  Seems like it cripples the defenses strongest arguments that the coaches/schools knew and were complicit.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Deserthoozier

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

Carried over from another thread...

I'm sure there is already replacements in place that are helping recruits (family, friends, high school/AAU coaches, clingers) get their money. To think otherwise would be to deny the last 50+ years of the college basketball landscape. Those programs (Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, etc.) who have cheated over multiple decades will continue doing so.


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[mdn82 25,782]

Carried over from another thread...

I'm sure there is already replacements in place that are helping recruits (family, friends, high school/AAU coaches, clingers) get their money. To think otherwise would be to deny the last 50+ years of the college basketball landscape. Those programs (Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, etc.) who have cheated over multiple decades will continue doing so.


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Maybe but in the last 50+ years they didn’t have the FBI to deal with. If they didn’t? Probably. But I guarantee that was never a consideration before this.


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[HoosierAloha 30,092]

Maybe but in the last 50+ years they didn’t have the FBI to deal with. If they didn’t? Probably. But I guarantee that was never a consideration before this.

 

 

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There are plenty of ways to get money to recruits and plenty of people willing to do the dirty work, even it means possibly getting caught by the FBI.

 

 

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[Stuhoo 85,601]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

Maybe but in the last 50+ years they didn’t have the FBI to deal with. If they didn’t? Probably. But I guarantee that was never a consideration before this.


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21 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

There are plenty of ways to get money to recruits and plenty of people willing to do the dirty work, even it means possibly getting caught by the FBI.

 

 

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The FBI will not turn into the basketball police. An FBI case team developed an operational informant and ran with a particular (and fun to work) case. That led to indictments, though those indictments are defensible. The verdict, at best, will likely have some guilty counts and some not guilty counts. Either way, the case team did their job - worked with integrity and exposed chargeable criminal activity.

The investigation likely will largely end after the current pending indictments  (and any collateral fish in a barrel that plea out) and it will thereafter be up to the NCAA to police or not police their member institutions.

This is a smart group of readers; that is the heaping helping of background realism for y’all - it will be the NCAA’s turn to enforce or not enforce their rules soon.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,856]

NCAA and Condoleezza Rice fixed all the nefarious cheating that’s been ongoing at the grassroots level. Nothing to see here.

Sigh.


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[mdn82 25,782]

 
The FBI will not turn into the basketball police. An FBI case team developed an operational informant and ran with a particular (and fun to work) case. That led to indictments, though those indictments are defensible. The verdict, at best, will likely have some guilty counts and some not guilty counts. Either way, the case team did their job - worked with integrity and exposed chargeable criminal activity.
The investigation likely will largely end after the current pending indictments  (and any collateral fish in a barrel that plea out) and it will thereafter be up to the NCAA to police or not police their member institutions.
This is a smart group of readers; that is the heaping helping of background realism for y’all - it will be the NCAA’s turn to enforce or not enforce their rules soon.
 

I get that. But if Federal crimes are occurring and fall into their lap I doubt they walk away. Like most criminals they will just change the way they go about it. I don’t doubt it continues, but people will be more scared than they were in 2016.


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[mdn82 25,782]

There are plenty of ways to get money to recruits and plenty of people willing to do the dirty work, even it means possibly getting caught by the FBI.
 
 
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All I am saying is there was probably not one person before all of this that thought about federal crimes. That consideration is there now. Much like any criminal that gets caught and knows others that have. It will scare some away. Some won’t care, but be more careful. Then there will be some still doing things with both middle fingers in the air. Before the FBI? Most everyone had both middle fingers in the air.


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[DChoosier 9,222]

Three things are clear...

Kansas is a filthy, low-down dirty program.

The NCAA won’t do a damn thing.

If KU makes a run in the tourney their filth will be ignored by the talking heads just as they ignored the University of No Classes infractions