TOM CREAN FIRED

[raorIU 320]

What would you say are the three to five most important components of this formula that is considered to be a multi-faceted animal? Who are your top three candidates that would excel in this multifaceted formula that would be possible replacements for Crean when/if he and the administration decide to part ways?

1) Consistent, effective style play on both offense and defense with the ability to do so at any pace or location

2) Adaption to circumstance, whether that is maximizing player strengths or countering in game adjustments

3) Build a stable roster that is able to, or preferably taught to, conduct items 1 and 2 without an excess of off-the-court issues

Candidates:
Brad Stevens
Brad Stevens
Brad Stevens

[Brass Cannon 24,913]

Hmm looks like Ainge is trying to trade for Kevin Love. That is not what that team needs. Good Ainge keep fooling around. It can only help us.

[Old Friend 8,389]

What would you say are the three to five most important components of this formula that is considered to be a multi-faceted animal?  Who are your top three candidates that would excel in this multifaceted formula that would be possible replacements for Crean when/if he and the administration decide to part ways?

I'll give you 10 because my answer to your second question is a one man list right now.   There are more than this, but I like the discussion.

 

1)   Win consistently.  Be a player every year, and make no excuses.

2)   Avoid being in the news for off court stuff, and if it happens, it happens once and people know you've got it handled

3)   Every once in a while, and often enough for people to see it as a pattern, win a game because of your plan, your adjustments, and your execution

4)   Be great at something.   Whether it's changing defenses to take away a player or a team's favorite way to score, halftime adjustments, etc.  Be so good at something that Purdue Person Vitale calls you "the best in college basketball!"  Let it win for you when you need it.

5)   Avoid living and dying by the 3 point shot.  Have an offense you can go to and get good shots consistently.  And have kids who understand "why!"

6)   Focus recruiting on kids who will fit your system and who understand where they are.  All should be high basketball IQ guys and leaders.

7)   Be great with the media.  

8)   When people walk in the building, they should know what they're going to see, and be a b!tch on defense.

9)   Set publicly high expectations and own them.   "Our goal is to win the Big Ten."

10) Coach to a level, not to results.  Get the most from every team, regardless of the roster.

 

The list, until it isn't, is Brad Stevens.   Glass has to know, absolutely, if and when he might be available.  If he's not, we can talk about other options.  But he's widely considered the best young (under 40) coach in basketball; and he's a wizard at the college game because he's shown he can game plan, adjust, recruit, and everything else.  College basketball is largely a coach's game where the NBA is a player's league.   He's a basketball coach.  He may love it there and never be interested in college basketball again.  I don't happen to believe that, but it's possible.  If that's the case, we can move on if and when it's time for Crean to go.  But if I were Fred Glass, Stevens is the one target I'd have on my radar, and I'd be willing to wait for him (in a reasonable time frame) no matter what. I've heard he doesn't like recruiting, but he has to know at Indiana, all it's going to take with him there is a phone call, and kids around here will walk over fire to play at Indiana for Brad Stevens.  and they would.

[X-Hoosier 529]

Hmm looks like Ainge is trying to trade for Kevin Love. That is not what that team needs. Good Ainge keep fooling around. It can only help us.

will be interesting to see if they pull the trigger on anything. They've rumored with Dwight Howard, Al Horford and Love.

[maxwell 598]

Thank you for your very well written response.  I’m obviously a supporter of CTC  I feel that he has been making strides for over a year to bring IUBB consistently into the conversation when comes to the B1G championship.  I feel Brad Stevens is not a prospective coach here due to the fact that when he agreed to coach Boston, he didn’t set out to try it and see how it would work out.  He is not coaching there to have a mild representation of success.  He is the type of professional that is driven to own a level of excellence for both he and his players and imo this will probably not happen within what we would consider a “reasonable time frame”.

 

As I was expressing my opinion of Brad, I’m really thinking the exact same things are true of Tom.  A couple of not-so-great recruiting classes and a less than desirable start to this season have tarnished the perception of the work and coach he has become.  The key here is what he has endured and grown from during this tough time span.

 

I like your list here and would like to add a couple of comments in regards to CTC and our team.

 

1)   Win consistently.  Be a player every year, and make no excuses. Tom Crean is well on his way to doing this very thing this year and has a tremendous foundation laid to follow it up with another strong season.

2)   Avoid being in the news for off court stuff, and if it happens, it happens once and people know you've got it handled.  Valid point here.   I feel Tom has not only taken care of business here, he has also admitted to instances that he wish were handled differently.  I feel he has positive momentum here based on the kids and families that are coming into the program.

3)   Every once in a while, and often enough for people to see it as a pattern, win a game because of your plan, your adjustments, and your execution.  We all are going to see what we want to see here.  I'm sure I can do a better job of looking at such patterns more objectively.  In my opinion this may a bit of a challenge because it seams like there should be a different set of objectives for each team based on how you are trying to impose your strengths on the other teams weaknesses.  Crean after wins continues to praise his staff and players and seems to minimize the self edification in my opinion.  I also like the way his players take the spot light that they receive during post game presses and shine the positive aspects that their team mates bring to the table.  That takes class and character to drill on those characteristics that the kids do this almost habitually.

4)   Be great at something.   Whether it's changing defenses to take away a player or a team's favorite way to score, halftime adjustments, etc.

5)   Avoid living and dying by the 3 point shot.  Have an offense you can go to and get good shots consistently. 

6)   Focus recruiting on kids who will fit your system and who understand where they are.  All should be high basketball IQ guys and leaders.  Combining four, five and six here.  This IU team is great at knocking down the three and Tom Crean is recruiting players that either shoot or compliment those types of players very well.  Of the 19 highlights on this video, just less than a third are 3 pt plays.  It's very clear that we a building in other areas outside of the 3pt shot.  Is this a good source to prove my point? Absolutely Not! There are many other stats that better support or destroy my belief about our offense.   But do understand…. I’m Luv-N me some Don Fischer!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl6yOMNJpc8

 

7)   Be great with the media.  Our man Bobby Knight was always great, right?  I really don't have strong views here other than to have some input from our fans on coaches that always handle the media well after losses.  One of the best I've listen to was Fran.  And that was not this year.  So I would love to know the coaches that handle this to the professional level our fans feel it should be dealt with.

8)   When people walk in the building, they should know what they're going to see. 

9)   Set publicly high expectations and own them.   "Our goal is to win the Big Ten."  [8 &9] I agree there should always be a standard.  I feel Tom is always pushing for a higher level of consistency.

 

10) Coach to a level, not to results.<-- This is what I like most about what you’ve posted.  The idea of concentrating on the process of development in sports is very important to me.  That is why I embrace the difficulties this team endured in Maui and even the late loss to PSU.  I feel our guys are making great strides in the defeats AS WELL AS THE VICTORIES.  There are some very important defensive and rebounding issues we still need to grow in despite the fact we beat Iowa and this is something CTC has suggested in his pressers for those fans that don’t always write him off as a bunch of “coach speak comments”.   Btw I personally don’t have a problem with his referencing that he needs to study the film.  I find it humorous when people get worked up over this as I see other coaches reference it often considering the small amount of time I listen to opposing coaches and their pressers.

 Get the most from every team, regardless of the roster.  Imo this becomes a matter of a coach working within a set of his personal preferences and I struggle to see how most fans feel they have the insight to direct any college coach with this personal preference.  The opinions of long-term goals and immediate results are just going to differentiate to much imo.

 

Thanks again for your response! I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.

[Hoosiers219 178]

will be interesting to see if they pull the trigger on anything. They've rumored with Dwight Howard, Al Horford and Love.

Horford is the only one who makes sense. IMHO. So, I like the Cs, but anything to make Stevens look our way is preferable.

Also, re: recruiting. I think having someone with Brad Stevens clout does wonders, but you still need to show love and interest to these recruits. Perhaps you pair Stevens will a phenomenal head recruiter who manages the day-to-day and does the heavy lifting.

[KingPG21 6,587]

Horford is the only one who makes sense. IMHO. So, I like the Cs, but anything to make Stevens look our way is preferable.

Also, re: recruiting. I think having someone with Brad Stevens clout does wonders, but you still need to show love and interest to these recruits. Perhaps you pair Stevens will a phenomenal head recruiter who manages the day-to-day and does the heavy lifting.

How does Howard not make sense? That team has absolutely no interior defender worth anything on that roster. Howard still is one of the best interior defenders in the league. 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

We, most,all agree that Stevens is our best option both to unite the fanbase and,win as most of us,desire. Imo, he is not leaving Boston anytime soon. He is an honorable man, with his own goals and the team goals to look after. If he leaves the NBA, it will be after his contract, or Boston decides to go in another direction.

[Hoosiers219 178]

How does Howard not make sense? That team has absolutely no interior defender worth anything on that roster. Howard still is one of the best interior defenders in the league.

I suspect you are correct. I just have never been impressed with Howard. He was a tremendous athlete with a great physical presence. He never really seem to improve or learn anything at all regarding the game of basketball. I guess I let my personal feelings for the player cloud my judgment as to his inclusion with the Celtics. With that being said, I still think that Horford is the best fit for the team.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

I'll keep saying it until it comes true.  I believe part of coach Stevens being in the NBA is to help him recruit when he returns to the college game.  He will be able to tell and show recruits what he achieved in the NBA and what it will take for a player to develop into a next level player.  I just hope when BS decides to return to college basketball he comes home to coach the state school.  the Stevens family and Btown are a match made in heaven!

[Old Friend 8,389]

I'll answer in blue...and just be matter of fact.  I love your optimism, and appreciate your thoughts.  This will read more harshly than I mean it, simply because I don't want to over-write.  Thank you for your very well written response.  You're very welcome.  Good question.  I’m obviously a supporter of CTC  I feel that he has been making strides for over a year to bring IUBB consistently into the conversation It's going to take more than a year, and I guess I don't understand your point that he's been making strides lately to win consistently.  when comes to the B1G championship.  I feel Brad Stevens is not a prospective coach here due to the fact that when he agreed to coach Boston, he didn’t set out to try it and see how it would work out.  He is not coaching there to have a mild representation of success.  He is the type of professional that is driven to own a level of excellence for both he and his players and imo this will probably not happen within what we would consider a “reasonable time frame”.  I don't think there's any way to know one way or the other.   Based solely on what I DO know, he is absolutely a prospective coach at Indiana.  The question is the timing.  There are very few college coaches (in fact, I can't name one) who go to the NBA and stay there.   His level of excellence in the NBA is not controlled by him; and that's the main reason I think he'll come back to college at some point, and Indiana cannot let him go to Duke or anywhere else.  

 

As I was expressing my opinion of Brad, I’m really thinking the exact same things are true of Tom.  A couple of not-so-great recruiting classes and a less than desirable start to this season have tarnished the perception of the work and coach he has become.  This all happened this year?  What's changed about him that has changed 17 years of history?  The key here is what he has endured and grown from during this tough time span.  Indiana lost to Penn State a week ago.  They're not yet consistent within a season, let alone year over year.  Yes, they had a big win at home this week; but does that change losses to Wake Forest and UNLV?    I'm not following your logic.  Indiana is a tournament team, but they also have 3 McDonald's All Americans on their roster; plus a good group of experienced seniors, and another freak athlete who may be the toughest transitional matchup in the Big Ten.  They SHOULD be a good team this season.

 

I like your list here and would like to add a couple of comments in regards to CTC and our team.

 

1)   Win consistently.  Be a player every year, and make no excuses. Tom Crean is well on his way to doing this very thing this year and has a tremendous foundation laid to follow it up with another strong season.  Gonna' take a LOT more than this season to convince most people.   Crean has a 17 year resume that's not flattering relative to consistency, and Indiana followed up a conference title with 8th and 7th place finishes.  Crean has also had very little post season success.  This year means very little.

2)   Avoid being in the news for off court stuff, and if it happens, it happens once and people know you've got it handled.  Valid point here.   I feel Tom has not only taken care of business here, he has also admitted to instances that he wish were handled differently.  I feel he has positive momentum here based on the kids and families that are coming into the program.  His recruitment of kids who didn't understand where they were started the problem, and a lack of leaders compounded it.   This is a weakness that has showed signs of early improvement, but I am not convinced he's over the hump.

3)   Every once in a while, and often enough for people to see it as a pattern, win a game because of your plan, your adjustments, and your execution.  We all are going to see what we want to see here.  Perhaps, but I don't know that I've ever heard anyone compliment Crean on a specifically great game plan or adjustment that led to a big win.  What I see is a team that shoots well when it wins and doesn't when we lose.  Generally speaking, of course. I'm sure I can do a better job of looking at such patterns more objectively.  In my opinion this may a bit of a challenge because it seams like there should be a different set of objectives for each team based on how you are trying to impose your strengths on the other teams weaknesses.  Crean after wins continues to praise his staff and players and seems to minimize the self edification in my opinion.  I'm not concerned about to whom he gives praise or credit.  I know his coaches do a lot of the high-level game planning.  That happens everywhere.  I'm more concerned with the details and the adjustments.  I also like the way his players take the spot light that they receive during post game presses and shine the positive aspects that their team mates bring to the table.  That takes class and character to drill on those characteristics that the kids do this almost habitually.

4)   Be great at something.   Whether it's changing defenses to take away a player or a team's favorite way to score, halftime adjustments, etc.

5)   Avoid living and dying by the 3 point shot.  Have an offense you can go to and get good shots consistently. 

6)   Focus recruiting on kids who will fit your system and who understand where they are.  All should be high basketball IQ guys and leaders.  Combining four, five and six here.  This IU team is great at knocking down the three they're great sometimes, and more often than not at home.  Living and dying by the 3 point shot is not what I mean, here; and I think we're WAY too focused on it.   and Tom Crean is recruiting players that either shoot or compliment those types of players very well.  Of the 19 highlights on this video, just less than a third are 3 pt plays.  There are examples you can point to...but they're limited so far.  Crean's teams have at times shot 50% + of their shots from behind the arc.  It's very clear that we a building in other areas outside of the 3pt shot.  Is this a good source to prove my point? Absolutely Not! There are many other stats that better support or destroy my belief about our offense.   But do understand…. I’m Luv-N me some Don Fischer!  Me, too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl6yOMNJpc8

 

7)   Be great with the media.  Our man Bobby Knight was always great, right?  This is not a conversation about Knight, nor is he a guy I'd like to bring back.  But the reality?  He was awesome with the media.  I didn't say the media had to love him.  Knight was one of the best of all time.  I really don't have strong views here other than to have some input from our fans on coaches that always handle the media well after losses.  One of the best I've listen to was Fran.  And that was not this year.  So I would love to know the coaches that handle this to the professional level our fans feel it should be dealt with.  There's nobody better than Stevens.  

8)   When people walk in the building, they should know what they're going to see. 

9)   Set publicly high expectations and own them.   "Our goal is to win the Big Ten."  [8 &9] I agree there should always be a standard.  I feel Tom is always pushing for a higher level of consistency. Based on what?  He recruits with a shotgun, and doesn't recruit to any system.  It looks to me like he - to use a golf analogy - hits it and hopes.   Again, we have a 17 year resume to look at; not a 3 week microcosm of one season, and we just laid an egg at an also ran a week ago.    

 

10) Coach to a level, not to results.<-- This is what I like most about what you’ve posted.  The idea of concentrating on the process of development in sports is very important to me.  That is why I embrace the difficulties this team endured in Maui and even the late loss to PSU.  I feel our guys are making great strides in the defeats AS WELL AS THE VICTORIES.  There are some very important defensive and rebounding issues we still need to grow in despite the fact we beat Iowa and this is something CTC has suggested in his pressers for those fans that don’t always write him off as a bunch of “coach speak comments”.   Btw I personally don’t have a problem with his referencing that he needs to study the film.  I find it humorous when people get worked up over this as I see other coaches reference it often considering the small amount of time I listen to opposing coaches and their pressers.  Irrelevant to my point, but he still speaks in platitudes all the time.  Part of his failing with the media.  He talks around questions.  He's sometimes the guy who can talk for 10 minutes and not say anything.

 Get the most from every team, regardless of the roster.  Imo this becomes a matter of a coach working within a set of his personal preferences and I struggle to see how most fans feel they have the insight to direct any college coach with this personal preference.  Crean's rosters have been maddeningly inconsistent.  Two seasons ago, we couldn't shoot to save our lives, and he spent zero effort trying to bring in shooters to replace Hulls, Oladipo, and Watford.  None.  He went and got Stanford Robinson and Emmitt Holt.  He has shown no consistency relative to his preferences, which is why I said he doesn't recruit to any system or specifically any kind of kids.  He just puts warm bodies on the floor, hoping they'll gel.  Which is what Kentucky does, but they do it with 5* kids every year, which can work.  Crean doesn't really have a system.  Doesn't really have anything he's known for.   He can get kids to say yes, but that's not recruiting.  It's hoping.  The opinions of long-term goals and immediate results are just going to differentiate to much imo.

 

Thanks again for your response! I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.

[8bucks 6,557]

I am have not been a TC defender for a few years but with regards to the comment about complimenting Crean for an adjustment Beilein did this when we used Yogi on Stauskas.

Beilein on Crean

We didn't get many good shots today," Beilein said. "Credit their defense. The defensive game plan was outstanding. We have never seen anything like it since I've been here."


ESPN, in an article mentioned this:
"Did Crean crack the code? Michigan’s two games since are suggestive. "

He may not do this consistently but it has happened.

[maxwell 598]

^^@Old Friend, I understand your desire for Brad.  I could be wrong; however, I just don’t see leaving Boston anytime soon.   Even if he were to leave Boston, we will not be the only player throwing millions his way.  People talk like IU would be an obvious choice for Brad after Boston.  I’m not suggesting you here.  I’m just saying in general.  I believe it would be a tremendous fight just to land Stevens if Tom Crean and the administration decided to part ways.

 

I believe CTC will earn the extension just after the 2017 season. You say what he has done this year doesn’t matter in comparison to his career resume.  I totally disagree.  I believe that this team will do enough to have Crean back next year.  If he comes back with Thomas they will seal the deal, it’s just my opinion, but I feel your window of opportunity for Brad or anyone else will shrink to the size of a very small pane. I know many will not agree with this, but I believe at that point Coach Crean will be flat rolling with too much momentum through 2018.  Not only do I like the guy, but I believe that he more than deserves all the success that he is about to have in the next year and a half.  I'm hoping and expecting that momentum to continue on right there in the Izzo house tomorrow.

[chitown hoosier 743]

^^@Old Friend, I understand your desire for Brad. I could be wrong; however, I just don’t see leaving Boston anytime soon. Even if he were to leave Boston, we will not be the only player throwing millions his way. People talk like IU would be an obvious choice for Brad after Boston. I’m not suggesting you here. I’m just saying in general. I believe it would be a tremendous fight just to land Stevens if Tom Crean and the administration decided to part ways.

I believe CTC will earn the extension just after the 2017 season. You say what he has done this year doesn’t matter in comparison to his career resume. I totally disagree. I believe that this team will do enough to have Crean back next year. If he comes back with Thomas they will seal the deal, it’s just my opinion, but I feel your window of opportunity for Brad or anyone else will shrink to the size of a very small pane. I know many will not agree with this, but I believe at that point Coach Crean will be flat rolling with too much momentum through 2018. Not only do I like the guy, but I believe that he more than deserves all the success that he is about to have in the next year and a half. I'm hoping and expecting that momentum to continue on right there in the Izzo house tomorrow.

I agree that although BS is the ONLY coach that will unite the fan base, I just don't see him leaving the NBA any time soon. He has done a tremendous job at Boston so far. If Crean can land a couple of the big in state 2017 recruits and continue success next year then he most likely will get an extension.

[Brass Cannon 24,913]

I agree that although BS is the ONLY coach that will unite the fan base, I just don't see him leaving the NBA any time soon. He has done a tremendous job at Boston so far. If Crean can land a couple of the big in state 2017 recruits and continue success next year then he most likely will get an extension.

Continue success we haven't really had any yet. The next weeks will be very telling.

[8bucks 6,557]

^^@Old Friend, I understand your desire for Brad. I could be wrong; however, I just don’t see leaving Boston anytime soon. Even if he were to leave Boston, we will not be the only player throwing millions his way. People talk like IU would be an obvious choice for Brad after Boston. I’m not suggesting you here. I’m just saying in general. I believe it would be a tremendous fight just to land Stevens if Tom Crean and the administration decided to part ways.

I believe CTC will earn the extension just after the 2017 season. You say what he has done this year doesn’t matter in comparison to his career resume. I totally disagree. I believe that this team will do enough to have Crean back next year. If he comes back with Thomas they will seal the deal, it’s just my opinion, but I feel your window of opportunity for Brad or anyone else will shrink to the size of a very small pane. I know many will not agree with this, but I believe at that point Coach Crean will be flat rolling with too much momentum through 2018. Not only do I like the guy, but I believe that he more than deserves all the success that he is about to have in the next year and a half. I'm hoping and expecting that momentum to continue on right there in the Izzo house tomorrow.

IF we can keep our core and stop the roster turnover issues then i agree and think we may be on the cusp of a nice 3-4 year run. IF is the issue though. We felt this way with the Yogi class, then with the Troy/Stan/Noah class. Fisher fits in there somewhere too.


Some of the lesser known guys that left have hurt too. I would have liked to see Max in his upperclassmen years. Same with Devin Davis and Emmit Holt. These (other than Noah) were not early NBA guys.

IF Crean can decrease our roster turnover then sustained success is achievable except some of the roster turnover was due to kids that could not behave off the court. A lot of schools have some trouble but when we have kids transfer at a high rate and we have to kick kids off the turnover is hard to manage.

Can Crean figure this out? I dunno but if he does I think he can have us as a consistent winner.

[Trish 11,707]

How does Howard not make sense? That team has absolutely no interior defender worth anything on that roster. Howard still is one of the best interior defenders in the league.

Howard on the Celtics would be funny to watch. Don't know what you'll get from Howard with all the injuries he gets these days.

I expect many many trades on Thursday before the 3PM deadline.

[iceman 63]

1) Consistent, effective style play on both offense and defense with the ability to do so at any pace or location

2) Adaption to circumstance, whether that is maximizing player strengths or countering in game adjustments

3) Build a stable roster that is able to, or preferably taught to, conduct items 1 and 2 without an excess of off-the-court issues

Candidates:
Brad Stevens
Brad Stevens
Brad Stevens

Not gonna happen

Not gonna happen

Not gonna happen

[Feathery 4,005]

I like Archie.

I like Archie too, let's play some devils advocate.

What has he really done that is better than Crean? He has never won a conference title, never been to a final four, only finished above 5th in conference once. That sounds like a John Groce type hire in my opinion. Is this the guy you fire Crean to land?

[MikeRoberts 7,202]

I like Archie too, let's play some devils advocate.

What has he really done that is better than Crean? He has never won a conference title, never been to a final four, only finished above 5th in conference once. That sounds like a John Groce type hire in my opinion. Is this the guy you fire Crean to land?

no, not right now