Post-Butler Frustration Thread

[yogisballin]

18 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Coach Spaz? Come on buddy, everyone knows the rules


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What Ive called him for years. Dont really see it as a big deal. Not like i'm on here cussing or offending anyone, unless?

[Stuhoo]

22 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Coach Spaz? Come on buddy, everyone knows the rules


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2 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

What Ive called him for years. Dont really see it as a big deal. Not like i'm on here cussing or offending anyone, unless?

 

"Coach Calmness-Challenged"?

 

[HoosierCoop]

CTC gets fired......then what?

Unless we stoop to the bowels of the earth and get a slime ball for a coach that puts us in the fringe of the NCAA (who doesn't necessarily care for us anyways).  Or, we hire a successful mid-major coach and puts us in a Groce level which I do not want to happen.

All the high profile coaches whether in the NBA or in the NCAA are NOT coming to IU.

Who would be worthy of being the next coach?  I think we would be sadly disappointed.

Careful what you wish for.

[yogisballin]

I guess I should watch the game first before I pass judgement on this one. Based off JBJ's comments in his 1st response to a questions, EFFORT/ENERGY? Was that really an issue here? Just looking at the box score, what I see. Start with the obvious, Out-rebounded them by 16 with 12 OR's!!! We shot 28% from down town, went to the FT line 26 for nearly 77%, Newkirk shot 11 times (that's way, way, WAY too much), only had 11 assists, 13 TO's for a CTC team is actually good, and we gave up 83 points to Butler. Yeah I'd guess an L.

 

Back to our conversation on Green at PG. lets compare JN and DG's production from Saturdays game. JN 9pts on 3-11fgs with 4reb 1asts 2to's and 1steal and blk in 29 mins

DG 2pts on 0-1fgs, with 3asts 0to's 2rebs in 6 mins

Kid deserves a better shot imo! Not enough time thus far in the season. Maybe I'm crazy and just don't see it. But I see a whole lot more confidence in Green than Newkirk on a players level. And that's maybe because he feels the need to be Yogi, maybe its his knee. Some players just aren't the same mentally and I really hate that for him. But at this point it is, just what it is! I'll hush now and go watch the game with a slow day at work.

[mdn82]

It's funny that some of you think there is no way Crean is on the hot seat whatsoever. The KU & UNC games saved him after the IPFW loss which no blue blood should have ever lost to begin with. Freddie McSwain would have been their highest ranked recruit think about that. I have been one of Crean's biggest supporters period!! His player development is the best in the COUNTRY. The thing is at IU we don't need that as awesome as it is. We should be getting good enough players regardless that just need good coaching. We haven't let him go in the last few years cause there was NO options close to as good as him so why do it? There honestly isn't many out there that I would pick now over him, but there is some. I watch the NBA{sixers} fan more than most and I know Ainge loves Brad, but has also said he wants to see major improvements and isn't afraid of change. If Brad feels the pressure he could very well come here if they cant get Hayward this offseason. Like I said Crean and our team are fine THIS year. I fully expect B1G title & a good run come March. I also expect a middle of the pack w potential to be top 3 or 6-9 next year. If the 6-9 happens and Brad with another year of Ainge pushing for a title doesn't happen I would bet anything he is a possibility. Like I said in my previous post though..I think Crean is our coach for awhile unless he himself wants a change which is highly possible too, he would be highly coveted as well. I wasn't and am not calling for his job, but like I stated next year is a HUGE year for him and it isn't even worth mentioning until this time next year. A lot can change between then as well. Crean still shows the ability to be more than a player developer though and I have faith he can take us where we should be, but he reminds me of the Troy Williams of coaching. Next year at this time I will actually consider a change if it looks needed until then...Go Hoosiers!! Pray OG get's back to full strength as well.

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Actually Scott who transferred from PU would be way higher ranked than McSwain. But rankings mean jack once they get on the court. I was more disappointed by that loss obviously, but they do have some quality players.


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[mdn82]

Can Rob take the point and play big with Morgan in the lineup?  

Rob, JBj, OG,Morgan, Bryant 

I like this lineup. Wish we would go with it in crunch time.


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[HoosierCoop]

7 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

I guess I should watch the game first before I pass judgement on this one. Based off JBJ's comments in his 1st response to a questions, EFFORT/ENERGY? Was that really an issue here? Just looking at the box score, what I see. Start with the obvious, Out-rebounded them by 16 with 12 OR's!!! We shot 28% from down town, went to the FT line 26 for nearly 77%, Newkirk shot 11 times (that's way, way, WAY too much), only had 11 assists, 13 TO's for a CTC team is actually good, and we gave up 83 points to Butler. Yeah I'd guess an L.

 

Back to our conversation on Green at PG. lets compare JN and DG's production from Saturdays game. JN 9pts on 3-11fgs with 4reb 1asts 2to's and 1steal and blk in 29 mins

DG 2pts on 0-1fgs, with 3asts 0to's 2rebs in 6 mins

Kid deserves a better shot imo! Not enough time thus far in the season. Maybe I'm crazy and just don't see it. But I see a whole lot more confidence in Green than Newkirk on a players level. And that's maybe because he feels the need to be Yogi, maybe its his knee. Some players just aren't the same mentally and I really hate that for him. But at this point it is, just what it is! I'll hush now and go watch the game with a slow day at work.

JN is playing like a Junior year Yogi.  Tempo was way too fast and was getting caught with mid-air passes.

He will learn his role, but not as a starter IMO.

[Brass Cannon]

40 minutes ago, HoosierCoop said:

CTC gets fired......then what?

Unless we stoop to the bowels of the earth and get a slime ball for a coach that puts us in the fringe of the NCAA (who doesn't necessarily care for us anyways).  Or, we hire a successful mid-major coach and puts us in a Groce level which I do not want to happen.

All the high profile coaches whether in the NBA or in the NCAA are NOT coming to IU.

Who would be worthy of being the next coach?  I think we would be sadly disappointed.

Careful what you wish for.

Pay them and they will come. Right now Creab is one of the top paid coaches in the country. And frankly their are two in this state I would rather have. 

[recker222000]

CTC gets fired......then what?

Unless we stoop to the bowels of the earth and get a slime ball for a coach that puts us in the fringe of the NCAA (who doesn't necessarily care for us anyways).  Or, we hire a successful mid-major coach and puts us in a Groce level which I do not want to happen.

All the high profile coaches whether in the NBA or in the NCAA are NOT coming to IU.

Who would be worthy of being the next coach?  I think we would be sadly disappointed.

Careful what you wish for.

Crean is not getting fired. He will always win just enough games to make fred happy. Fred doesnt care about deep tourney runs.

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[HoosierAloha]

Actually Scott who transferred from PU would be way higher ranked than McSwain. But rankings mean jack once they get on the court. I was more disappointed by that loss obviously, but they do have some quality players.


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Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard. In both losses it seemed like we thought we could turn it on whenever we wanted and win. Finally, they turned it on and made good comebacks but couldn't get over the hump.

I can still see players finding roles. (Theme under Crean for years) they're still learning to play together (another issue when you play eleventy billion different lineups) and looking for a leader. (Yup, another Crean issue for years outside senior Yogi, 2013)

I love the player development at IU. Any player that has his head on straight and is willing to work on his individual skill has a chance to be special under Crean. However, the system to win, and win big, is flawed. It has been for awhile and if it's not changed Crean won't win at a level that most IU will be satisfied. (Making it past the Sweet 16). Play hard, play smart, and play together.

[bigrod]

Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard. In both losses it seemed like we thought we could turn it on whenever we wanted and win. Finally, they turned it on and made good comebacks but couldn't get over the hump.

I can still see players finding roles. (Theme under Crean for years) they're still learning to play together (another issue when you play eleventy billion different lineups) and looking for a leader. (Yup, another Crean issue for years outside senior Yogi, 2013)

I love the player development at IU. Any player that has his head on straight and is willing to work on his individual skill has a chance to be special under Crean. However, the system to win, and win big, is flawed. It has been for awhile and if it's not changed Crean won't win at a level that most IU will be satisfied. (Making it past the Sweet 16). Play hard, play smart, and play together.

Couldn't agree more. We always get these theme answers from Crean. It's always about effort and never about the technical reasons we were getting beat over and over on offense. Freshmen were playing like freshmen and sophomores were playing like sophomores. Those aren't real reasons.

I like Crean. He's a great teacher of concepts and a great motivator (most of the time). Where he falls short is understanding strategic and technical aspects of the game and how to help his players when things aren't going as planned. Players aren't robots and have off nights. That is where the coach has to adjust and figure out what will work better. If a team is taking something away, how do we counter?

To me, that is what separates the really great coaches. For that reason, as you said, the winning part is flawed.


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[HoosierAloha]

Couldn't agree more. We always get these theme answers from Crean. It's always about effort and never about the technical reasons we were getting beat over and over on offense. Freshmen were playing like freshmen and sophomores were playing like sophomores. Those aren't real reasons.

I like Crean. He's a great teacher of concepts and a great motivator (most of the time). Where he falls short is understanding strategic and technical aspects of the game and how to help his players when things aren't going as planned. Players aren't robots and have off nights. That is where the coach has to adjust and figure out what will work better. If a team is taking something away, how do we counter?

To me, that is what separates the really great coaches. For that reason, as you said, the winning part is flawed.


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A few more things. I don't see IU having a counterpunch. If IU gets hit in the mouth (taking away transition and being physical) Crean doesn't have a go to counterpunch. (Good sets in the half court, secondary philosophy)

IU has the personnel to run a great high low with OG, JMo, TB, and DD. This is especially true when we have a size advantage. If teams (Butler) are going to takeaway transition and slow the game down why not punish them with TB and DD. There would be a disadvantage on defense but play a pack line to force contested jumpers.

It's just baffling to me, at this high level, that our coach resorts to "just play faster." Frustrating for fans and must be absolutely nuts for players.

[Alford Bailey]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

A few more things. I don't see IU having a counterpunch. If IU gets hit in the mouth (taking away transition and being physical) Crean doesn't have a go to counterpunch. (Good sets in the half court, secondary philosophy)

IU has the personnel to run a great high low with OG, JMo, TB, and DD. This is especially true when we have a size advantage. If teams (Butler) are going to takeaway transition and slow the game down why not punish them with TB and DD. There would be a disadvantage on defense but play a pack line to force contested jumpers.

It's just baffling to me, at this high level, that our coach resorts to "just play faster." Frustrating for fans and must be absolutely nuts for players.

Yea, a team like Butler gets a lead on us and all they really have to do is not allow us to get out on the break. We hit a couple baskets they call a timeout and kill momentum. We dont have a Yogi to force uptempo like last year.

[Yogi's Picnic Basket]

I admit I was one that had high faith in JN and a lot of people did, but unless a change is made or he starts getting better, which is possible but it is his vision that worries me. Idk if that can be fixed, but if he can we have a shot past the sweet sixteen and if no one else steps up and he stays this way...I don't see it. Guards always make the difference in March. Once I saw JN play though and Waters recruitment, this may be his only year here.

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[bleedhoosier]

But with JN, he is going to start tonight and probably look extremely serviceable for the next few games. And then we will run into Louisville and be right here again.

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[Stuhoo]

14 minutes ago, Napleshoosier said:

Political correctness is over now bro! Lol


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Grab 'em by their spastic p....?  ahh, never mind.

 

[ALASKA HOOSIER]

On 12/18/2016 at 0:41 PM, recker222000 said:

wants. Glass will never ever fire him. We have deal with this reality

I heart you stu!

[Stuhoo]

13 hours ago, ALASKA HOOSIER said:

I heart you stu!

 

Ewww, a message board love-in! My wife will need to know ;)

BTW, I've been critical of him, but I'm a fan of Josh Newkirk as a rotation player and as a very useful piece for a championship caliber team. I just don't see his decision making and point guard skills as that of a starting point guard on a championship caliber team. More like a Chris Reynolds athletic defensive specialist.

 

[yogisballin]

11 hours ago, HoosierCoop said:

JN is playing like a Junior year Yogi.  Tempo was way too fast and was getting caught with mid-air passes.

He will learn his role, but not as a starter IMO.

He had an entire season to learn, last year! Or are you saying just isn't a starter?

[HoosierCoop]

9 hours ago, yogisballin said:

He had an entire season to learn, last year! Or are you saying just isn't a starter?

Not as a starter.  Last night was a good example.

Come off the bench, provide a spark, see how the game is unfolding, not creating something that isn't there.

Much better game flow.