(2018) PG Robert Phinisee to Cincinnati

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I figured someone would do this.  I did not compare the two, and I think it's impossible to know another player would be "more like" another at this point.  Phinisee is a terrific player - a 4-star kid right now, for what it's worth.  What he will be in college and beyond isn't something anyone can know; but my comment had nothing to do with where kids were ranked (Bracey Wright and Andre Patterson were highly ranked.  Victor Oladipo was not - lower than Phinisee is.  It's 100% irrelevant and predictor of nothing).  
Indiana needs a point guard; needs a player who will make others better; and yeah....needs smart players who know how to play the game and not just the sport.  Phinisee is such a player; and I personally love that he's an Indiana kid. 21 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds, 3 steals per game last season.  52% shooter from the floor.  Not bad. Yogi was better?  Yogi played against far inferior competition in high school.  So..better?  Yogi had a better 4 year career than Phinnisee will have?   Nobody knows that at this point.

Rankings are absolutely relevant and good indicators of a players talent level and potential to contribute in college. I like Phinese too, but you constantly hurt your own arguments by taking such hardline stances against anything or anyone that doesn't completely support your opinions.

Also, Garland and Langford are also smart players who know the game and make others around them better. They also happen to be ranked higher than Phinese. Given Garland's height, it's not a guarantee, much like Yogi, that he'll be able to leave for the NBA early.

I'd take Phinese in heartbeat, but Garland would be a huge recruiting victory.


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[HoosierAloha 29,900]

It'd be nice to know the mentality of the players too. Would Phinisee be willing to play behind Garland the first few years and develop? Ditto for Garland. Would they be able to play on the floor together; not needing the ball to help win, defending bigger 2 guards, etc. is Garland likely to leave after a few years or be a four year player?

There are a ton of questions to be asked about situations like this. I would take both in a heartbeat if it would workout.

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

4 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It'd be nice to know the mentality of the players too. Would Phinisee be willing to play behind Garland the first few years and develop? Ditto for Garland. Would they be able to play on the floor together; not needing the ball to help win, defending bigger 2 guards, etc. is Garland likely to leave after a few years or be a four year player?

There are a ton of questions to be asked about situations like this. I would take both in a heartbeat if it would workout.

Didn't some of Daytons teams play 2 PGs?

if so could be an easy sell from a PT point of view 

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 hour ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Rankings are absolutely relevant and good indicators of a players talent level and potential to contribute in college. I like Phinese too, but you constantly hurt your own arguments by taking such hardline stances against anything or anyone that doesn't completely support your opinions.

Also, Garland and Langford are also smart players who know the game and make others around them better. They also happen to be ranked higher than Phinese. Given Garland's height, it's not a guarantee, much like Yogi, that he'll be able to leave for the NBA early.

I'd take Phinese in heartbeat, but Garland would be a huge recruiting victory.


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Rankings are based almost solely on ball skills and athletic ability.  They translate to those attributes alone.  They say nothing of how a kid makes others better or not.  Whether he understands angles, spacing, defensive positioning, etc.  Can he set or use a screen?  Is he a good team mate?  I don't care one bit if you agree with me or not.  I'm not here to please you nor anyone else; and the same 3-4 guys are the ones who agree with you.   You're telling me absolutely that a player who's more highly ranked nationally should be recruited more heavily than another kid?   Noah Vonleh..Hanner Parea....come on down.  Speaking of credibility.  

Is "rankings are absolutely relevant" a hardline stance?   It would seem so.  You need to spend more time doing something other than stalking me waiting to find something to disagree with.   Talk to me about kids like Daniel Orton, Marcus Lee, DeJuan Coleman, DeQuan Jones, Kieth Gallon, Magnum Rolle, Milton Jennings, Josh Selby, and on and on and on and on.  All 5-star recruits who did nothing; and there are plenty more.   My hard line stances are based on history and reality.  You can do your homework and look it up....or you can tell me how wrong I am.  Where was Oladipo ranked?  Gordon Heyward?   How many kids can you name ranked lower than others who turned out better?   

Let me guess....you don't think that supports anything, right?  Yet your saying what you say "Garland and Langford are smart players who make players around them better" is supported. By....what? 

[goonaha 2,972]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Rankings are based almost solely on ball skills and athletic ability.  They translate to those attributes alone.  They say nothing of how a kid makes others better or not.  Whether he understands angles, spacing, defensive positioning, etc.  Can he set or use a screen?  Is he a good team mate?  I don't care one bit if you agree with me or not.  I'm not here to please you nor anyone else; and the same 3-4 guys are the ones who agree with you.   You're telling me absolutely that a player who's more highly ranked nationally should be recruited more heavily than another kid?   Noah Vonleh..Hanner Parea....come on down.  Speaking of credibility.  

Is "rankings are absolutely relevant" a hardline stance?   It would seem so.  You need to spend more time doing something other than stalking me waiting to find something to disagree with.   Talk to me about kids like Daniel Orton, Marcus Lee, DeJuan Coleman, DeQuan Jones, Kieth Gallon, Magnum Rolle, Milton Jennings, Josh Selby, and on and on and on and on.  All 5-star recruits who did nothing; and there are plenty more.   My hard line stances are based on history and reality.  You can do your homework and look it up....or you can tell me how wrong I am.  Where was Oladipo ranked?  Gordon Heyward?   How many kids can you name ranked lower than others who turned out better?   

Let me guess....you don't think that supports anything, right?  Yet your saying what you say "Garland and Langford are smart players who make players around them better" is supported. By....what? 

By watching them I would guess

[Uspshoosier 44,345]

30 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Rankings are based almost solely on ball skills and athletic ability.  They translate to those attributes alone.  They say nothing of how a kid makes others better or not.  Whether he understands angles, spacing, defensive positioning, etc.  Can he set or use a screen?  Is he a good team mate?  I don't care one bit if you agree with me or not.  I'm not here to please you nor anyone else; and the same 3-4 guys are the ones who agree with you.   You're telling me absolutely that a player who's more highly ranked nationally should be recruited more heavily than another kid?   Noah Vonleh..Hanner Parea....come on down.  Speaking of credibility.  

Is "rankings are absolutely relevant" a hardline stance?   It would seem so.  You need to spend more time doing something other than stalking me waiting to find something to disagree with.   Talk to me about kids like Daniel Orton, Marcus Lee, DeJuan Coleman, DeQuan Jones, Kieth Gallon, Magnum Rolle, Milton Jennings, Josh Selby, and on and on and on and on.  All 5-star recruits who did nothing; and there are plenty more.   My hard line stances are based on history and reality.  You can do your homework and look it up....or you can tell me how wrong I am.  Where was Oladipo ranked?  Gordon Heyward?   How many kids can you name ranked lower than others who turned out better?   

Let me guess....you don't think that supports anything, right?  Yet your saying what you say "Garland and Langford are smart players who make players around them better" is supported. By....what? 

In Romeos case in my opinion the way he lead his team to a 4a state title as a sophomore while beating teams with better role players and overall talent would be my argument for him. I watched over 8 of his games that year and probably 5 more this year and with my eyes I haven't seen an Indiana high school kid in the last 15 years that made the game looked as easy as he made it He seemed to always make the right basketball play. I would highly recommend watching the semistate game last year against brunk and Scruggs of Southport. As far as Garland I can't speak on him

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

In Romeos case in my opinion the way he lead his team to a 4a state title as a sophomore while beating teams with better role players and overall talent would be my argument for him. I watched over 8 of his games that year and probably 5 more this year and with my eyes I haven't seen an Indiana high school kid in the last 15 years that made the game looked as easy as he made it He seemed to always make the right basketball play. I would highly recommend watching the semistate game last year against brunk and Scruggs of Southport. As far as Garland I can't speak on him

 

 

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Romeo is a great player, and I've seen him multiple times.  This really isn't about him.  I'd love him, and I think he's an important get.

[Old Friend 8,389]

3 hours ago, goonaha said:

By watching them I would guess

Hasn't been good enough for him.   Watching a kid and giving your opinion based on that is unsupported.  

[Uspshoosier 44,345]

4 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Romeo is a great player, and I've seen him multiple times.  This really isn't about him.  I'd love him, and I think he's an important get.

Agree and I think Phinisee is an important get as well. I just don't think history is on our side when it comes to getting committments from kids from the layafette area.  CAM will have his work cut out for him to land him in my opinion 

[Old Friend 8,389]

Just now, Uspshoosier said:

Agree and I think Phinisee is an important get as well. I just don't think history is on our side when it comes to getting committments from kids from the layafette area.  CAM will have his work cut out for him to land him in my opinion 

I agree; but I don't think I'd go to Purdue if I wanted to be a 4-year point guard.   He comes to Indiana, he has a chance to be an icon because I think he'll be surrounded by talent for 4 years.  At Purdue?  You just never know.  I was incredibly frustrated by Crean and Davis because they never nailed down any part of Indiana.   Langford should be hard to pry away from Indiana for the same reason you state Phinisee should be tough to pry away from Purdue.

[HoosierAloha 29,900]

Could we throw Garland into that conversation? He might not live in Indiana but he was born in Indiana and refers to himself as a Hoosier, I believe.

[goonaha 2,972]

Hasn't been good enough for him.   Watching a kid and giving your opinion based on that is unsupported.  

What? So how did you evaluate Oladipo and Hayward? Did you not watch them and decide that they seemed like smart, high potential players?


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[MikeRoberts 6,837]

Just need to get the right mix of guys and while that seems obvious, we are all used to seeing some very lopsided teams i.e. 6 man classes, no seniors, no shooters, no ball handlers, no bigs, all role players, all kids who need the ball in their hands etc etc, we've seen it all under Crean.

Let's hope Archie can construct a true team and do it consistently. A true point that gets others involved like Phinisee is a great start.



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[ap2345 7,099]

15 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Could we throw Garland into that conversation? He might not live in Indiana but he was born in Indiana and refers to himself as a Hoosier, I believe.

This is correct. The Garland's lived in Gary until 2012 when they moved to Brentwood. The kid is a hoosier.

[Old Friend 8,389]

14 hours ago, goonaha said:

What? So how did you evaluate Oladipo and Hayward? Did you not watch them and decide that they seemed like smart, high potential players?


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Not my point.  Whether or not I've seen a kid and base my opinion off of that isn't good enough for Boot.  He wants "support," and he stalks me about it.   I watched Heyward for 4 years and in fact chastised IU (Sampson in particular) for not recruiting him harder.   I absolutely agree with you.  I'm not the one you need to ask.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Rankings are based almost solely on ball skills and athletic ability.  They translate to those attributes alone.  They say nothing of how a kid makes others better or not.  Whether he understands angles, spacing, defensive positioning, etc.  Can he set or use a screen?  Is he a good team mate?  I don't care one bit if you agree with me or not.  I'm not here to please you nor anyone else; and the same 3-4 guys are the ones who agree with you.   You're telling me absolutely that a player who's more highly ranked nationally should be recruited more heavily than another kid?   Noah Vonleh..Hanner Parea....come on down.  Speaking of credibility.  
Is "rankings are absolutely relevant" a hardline stance?   It would seem so.  You need to spend more time doing something other than stalking me waiting to find something to disagree with.   Talk to me about kids like Daniel Orton, Marcus Lee, DeJuan Coleman, DeQuan Jones, Kieth Gallon, Magnum Rolle, Milton Jennings, Josh Selby, and on and on and on and on.  All 5-star recruits who did nothing; and there are plenty more.   My hard line stances are based on history and reality.  You can do your homework and look it up....or you can tell me how wrong I am.  Where was Oladipo ranked?  Gordon Heyward?   How many kids can you name ranked lower than others who turned out better?   
Let me guess....you don't think that supports anything, right?  Yet your saying what you say "Garland and Langford are smart players who make players around them better" is supported. By....what? 

You keep doing you. I'm honestly not even sure what your rambling is trying to convey. Between Phinese, Langford, and Garland, they are all excellent options for various reasons. It seems you are trying to discredit Langford and Garland because they're ranked highly and you believe that rankings are bogus and indicative of "me first" players. Like Phinese being ranked lower is actually a positive reflection of his ability to contribute to the team versus Langford. Clearly I don't understand your point. Is your point in referring to Oladipo and Heyward that if I do research I'll find that on average lower ranked players have greater success in college than higher ranked players? I don't need to conduct research to tell you that would be incorrect. Oladipo and Heyward are great examples of underrated players who worked hard and rose above their rankings over their years in college.

Also, saying something is relevant is not hardline. There's varying degrees of relevance. Irrelevant is a single hardline value of zero.

Additionally, if you are uncomfortable with my questioning of your logic, either ignore me or don't post. It's not stalking; it's a message board. If you are unable to defend your opinions against my counter arguments, that's probably indicative of a lack of sound reasoning. Happy posting!


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Robert Phinese said recently he plans to commit in the fall. CAM has some work to do to build up a strong relationship. Really hoping we land this kid. Would love to have a strong multi-year PG on the roster for CAM to mold.


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[Dalton26 16,891]

2 crystal ball picks for IU this week

[Bowhunter 2,667]

2 crystal ball picks for IU this week

I won't look at another crystal ball till 12-24 hrs before recruit picks .

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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I won't look at another crystal ball till 12-24 hrs before recruit picks .

 

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There are certain individuals to pay attention to. Also, its more of a "as of now" weather forecast. If CB is leaning IU, safe to assume we're in the drivers seat at this time. That can obviously change.

 

I think the CB is a really solid tool and really great at allowing everyone to visually understand the up and down swings in a player's recruitment.

 

 

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