The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

18 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Not here to do anything but point things out :

1)  Indiana played less than 5 games this season with every available player healthy.  If it wasn't Thompson, it was Davis.  If it wasn't Davis it was Green.  If it wasn't Green it was Phinisee (and I don't think he was really "back" for a few weeks).  If it wasn't Phinisee it was McRoberts.  Then it was Langford.  And Thompson again.  And Morgan for a short time

2)  Morgan - as good as he was, played out of position for 2 years.  Since we had trouble shooting for whatever reason, he got doubled a lot and couldn't be as effective.   That's just a sad truth.  Davis was not yet mobile enough (and may never be) to allow Morgan to play the 4 and have a consistent post partner.   

3)  Romeo's agenda hurt.  He was very clearly not on the same page with the others; and I will submit a terribly disappointing player, despite scoring 16.5.  (And I don't buy that he was out with a bad back for one second)

4)  Because Davis was limited, we had very little depth in the front court, and were forced to play Fitzner in spots he just wasn't used to because Moore is Godawful and Forrester just wasn't ready yet.

5)  Durham, a sophomore was our only high-minutes player who was healthy all season, and not only were we thin up front, we were equally so in the back court.   

6)  Not having Hunter hurt us.  No if's, and's or but's.  Especially so with the OTHER injuries and Anderson not being close to ready.  (I sawe that guy stand around in high school, and it worried me.  Reminded me a lot of how Jeremy Hollowell played.  In a perfect world, he and Moore would transfer, and we'd add a couple of grad transfers or incoming freshmen.  One big and a couple of shooters to replace the would-be 5 openings we'll have to add to Franklin and Jackson-Davis.

7)  Sometimes...the pieces just don't fit.  We had pieces that didn't fit, others that weren't ready to play; others who tried to do things they can't do, and it just didn't work.   I truly believe Archie learned some things this season.   It was subtle, but I saw growth in him and a couple of players, including Green, as much as he frustrated the holy hell out of me.   I'm here to tell you....Frankin will help.  Who knows what opportunity he'll get, but the last game I saw him play was against Lawrence North, who has at least 2 D1 kids, and he scored an easy 30.  He did what Romeo does and he's a better shooter.  Not THE shooter we need, but better; and he's very long and explosive.   Jackson-Davis is also going to help.  With those 2 and Hunter, I already think we gain more than we lose; and if we add other pieces, that gap widens.  Plus another year of improvement and maturity for Green, Phinisee, Durham, Davis, and Thompson?   And a 3rd year in a system with coaches who are more comfortable?   I like our chances to be better.  I also think adding multi-year players is a good thing and the new option for high school players will help Indiana.   We can get better talent than Purdue. We simply need to so simple things like value the ball and rebound.  Shooting will come...Archie HAS to prioritize that, and he knows.   Lots of reasons this season was difficult, and I don't think they're excuses.  

Everyone knew Davis would be limited. Achilles injuries take time to heal and its more of a two year injury to get back to 100%. The fact we didn't have another option there knowing this is on the staff for not bringing someone in...oh wait they brought in Fizner :)

[RaceToTheTop 24,117]

3 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

WALLOWING.

 

IN. 

 

MEDIOCRITTTTYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

Great band name.  Maybe even better than Dusty Banners.

[Old Friend 8,389]

2 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

Everyone knew Davis would be limited. Achilles injuries take time to heal and its more of a two year injury to get back to 100%. The fact we didn't have another option there knowing this is on the staff for not bringing someone in...oh wait they brought in Fizner :)

They also thought Thompson would be healthy and perhaps that Moore would develop into......anything.    I don't blame Archie for not having depth there.  I'm sure he thought he did.  Like I said, sometimes the pieces don't fit.

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

They also thought Thompson would be healthy and perhaps that Moore would develop into......anything.    I don't blame Archie for not having depth there.  I'm sure he thought he did.  Like I said, sometimes the pieces don't fit.

The whole thing was just banking on too many unproven pieces that have never contributed at the D1 level.  Davis was never going to be 100%. Needed someone to step up there, they didn't or were injured. That was kind of the theme at a number of positions. Hopefully, Archie can sort it out and bring in some more new pieces on top of TJD and Franklin that will fit better. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,117]

3 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

Everyone knew Davis would be limited. Achilles injuries take time to heal and its more of a two year injury to get back to 100%. The fact we didn't have another option there knowing this is on the staff for not bringing someone in...oh wait they brought in Fizner :)

I think we all were fine at the time when he was brought in.  He was supposed to help fill a need.....you don't shoot 40% from three for three straight seasons by accident.  And while his shooting percentage could have been expected to fall a little bit, the drop he had surely wasn't.  By the end of the year, teams were giving him that   And he had played in two NCAA games and five NIT games coming in....that kind of experience should have been helpful.

I guess I don't get the criticism in hindsight.  I don't recall much criticism when he committed.  It was a free scholarship for one year going to a guy who was supposed to fit a role.  It didn't work out, but I don't think we were predicting what we got.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

After pondering the meaning..... of IU basketball the past couple days, and much discussion with IU buds....
I think having a one and done this year was actually a set back. I don't think I want another one and done until we develop a solid base of kids in the system. i'd be ok with 3 one and dones at the same time though :-)
at minimum, we need strong leadership next season. not sure who that will be. 

Ok but what do you fo when the next ine and done from southern indiana comes around? Just ignore him.

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[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

4 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

I think we all were fine at the time when he was brought in.  He was supposed to help fill a need.....you don't shoot 40% from three for three straight seasons by accident.  And while his shooting percentage could have been expected to fall a little bit, the drop he had surely wasn't.  By the end of the year, teams were giving him that   And he had played in two NCAA games and five NIT games coming in....that kind of experience should have been helpful.

I guess I don't get the criticism in hindsight.  I don't recall much criticism when he committed.  It was a free scholarship for one year going to a guy who was supposed to fit a role.  It didn't work out, but I don't think we were predicting what we got.

Numbers can be misleading. People were excited solely based on that without ever seeing the kid play. Kid clearly couldn't play in the Big 10. He just couldn't. I am not even talking shooting. He was a good spot up shooter. But he couldn't guard, rebound, dribble or do anything near the post. It was a miss. We move on but Archie needs to hit on the next one as I wouldn't be surprised if we explore this market again and we surely have some needs to fill still. 

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

23 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

Numbers can be misleading. People were excited solely based on that without ever seeing the kid play. Kid clearly couldn't play in the Big 10. He just couldn't. I am not even talking shooting. He was a good spot up shooter. But he couldn't guard, rebound, dribble or do anything near the post. It was a miss. We move on but Archie needs to hit on the next one as I wouldn't be surprised if we explore this market again and we surely have some needs to fill still. 

He was bricking wide open 3s as well. 

[Southside 1,914]

31 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

Ok but what do you fo when the next ine and done from southern indiana comes around? Just ignore him.

 

1 hour ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Not that I’m disagreeing with your point. But imagine a top 10 pick one and done going to any other Big10 school and someone from that fan base saying what you just said.

 

If I were the coach, I'd have to take him. As a fan, I'd want a guy that's going to be around.

Unfortunately we didn't have a good base that could utilize a one and done this year. it just hurt our development and perhaps our locker room. it didn't help either with the perceived personality that RL had. 

 

[RaceToTheTop 24,117]

10 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

He was bricking wide open 3s as well. 

But that's my point....there was no reason to believe that he would have done that.  There was literally nothing that would have lead you to believe the one thing he was very good at that he would stop doing.

[RaceToTheTop 24,117]

40 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

Ok but what do you fo when the next ine and done from southern indiana comes around? Just ignore him.

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Seems like a lot of guys were pretty bummed about Keion Brooks going to Kentucky with visions of being a one and done.  And if TJD were to somehow play well enough to be a OAD....should we have ignored him?

[Bailey7878 2,506]

Seems like a lot of guys were pretty bummed about Keion Brooks going to Kentucky with visions of being a one and done.  And if TJD were to somehow play well enough to be a OAD....should we have ignored him?

No not according to me. I wanted brooks bad.

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[HoosierAloha 29,966]

I understand the point you are making.....but when those 2 more scholarships are going to players like Bawa Muniru, Peter Jurkin, Jeremiah April, Tim Priller, Gelon Grant.....I'm not sure you can't really spot talent.  I think the two guys whose talent exceeded expectations were Oladipo and Anunoby.  And Anunoby really didn't get a chance to showcase anything because of how short he was here and injury.

Agreed, if coach A only gets 5 chances to find that diamond in the rough and coach C gets 20 who is more likely to find those few players.

Crean missed 5 for everyone he hit on, maybe more.


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[HoosierAloha 29,966]

If you have already built your culture and you have upperclassmen leading the program it’s much easier to bring in a one and done. I don’t think Romeo was our last OAD but I hope it’s our last that ends the way it did this season.


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

If you have already built your culture and you have upperclassmen leading the program it’s much easier to bring in a one and done. I don’t think Romeo was our last OAD but I hope it’s our last that ends the way it did this season.


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I often wonder if we should have hired an iu guy after knight. Now not sure who it would have been but izzo and painter were already part of the culture. It seems we had a few iu guys as assistants but really not many and have none now. Who knows.

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[Feathery 4,003]

7 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

No system works without consistent effort 

Correct. This is where having players who aren’t soft, who are mentally tough, and play with an edge are key. He is changing a culture, that takes time. 

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

Correct. This is where having players who aren’t soft, who are mentally tough, and play with an edge are key. He is changing a culture, that takes time. 

Except all the times it doesn’t. OSU and Louisville for example

[Honkyman 1,670]

IMO, it is worth having Peter Jerkin (who started and averaged 7.5 points his senior year at East Tennessee State), Jeremiah April, and Tim Priller sitting at the end of the bench if it means IU also brings in a Victor Oladipo or an OG Anunoby. What difference does it make whether it is Peter Jerkin sitting at the end of the bench or Jake Forrester? Coach Knight used to always recruit players who sat on the bench (except when he wanted to teach a rotation player a lesson). Some of them became role players by the end of their time at IU--but not all of them. Crean is no longer the problem at IU and nobody should be blaming him for players he recruited who are still on the team. I hope we can focus on next year rather than 3-4 years ago.

[Capt. Crimson 3,395]

For the record, his name was Grant Gelon. Not Gelon Grant. Lol


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[Brass Cannon 24,069]

19 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

IMO, it is worth having Peter Jerkin (who started and averaged 7.5 points his senior year at East Tennessee State), Jeremiah April, and Tim Priller sitting at the end of the bench if it means IU also brings in a Victor Oladipo or an OG Anunoby. What difference does it make whether it is Peter Jerkin sitting at the end of the bench or Jake Forrester? Coach Knight used to always recruit players who sat on the bench (except when he wanted to teach a rotation player a lesson). Some of them became role players by the end of their time at IU--but not all of them. Crean is no longer the problem at IU and nobody should be blaming him for players he recruited who are still on the team. I hope we can focus on next year rather than 3-4 years ago.

Jake was a 4 star recruit who happened to be a freshmen(not sure what people aren’t getting about that). April, Priller, Gelon and So many more were evaluated a Division 2 players and either never did or never were going to contribute. Big difference. Your bench warmers should always be young players who grow into a contributors