IU vs. Michigan Post-Game Thread

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Anybody who tries and claims the D didn't show up for the Penn State and OSU games is basically saying they didn't watch the games. 

 

The D gave up 29 points to Penn State that should have been enough.  Going into the third they had only given up 19 but after an INT and a crappy punt they scored 10 points. 

 

And against OSU the defense played lights out the first half gave the offense countless opportunities and they squandered them all.  After our 10th possession in that game we were only down 13-10.  We had wasted 8 of those possessions. 

 

We are supposed to be a high powered offense, when you are averaging a point a drive, and still in the game its not the D thats to blame.

Against Penn State the D had some bad penalties and then they completely failed to get pressure on a 5-man rush the whole second half which left our secondary open to be gashed while Hacks had all the time in the world to find his receivers.

 

Against OSU, Urban made adjustments at the half and we didn't. We held them to fewer than 20 running yards the first half, then they came out in a different formation and Elliot destroyed us with it twice. OSU also had tons of dumb penalties making the defense look better. Ultimately though, they were 18 of 27 in the pass and Elliot averaged 11.9 yards-per-carry.

 

And more importantly, they both cut us up in the same way everyone does. With throws between the deep and the under. Those high 20 to low 30 yard passes get us every single time. 

 

It's fair to say the whole team failed against both teams. But, since the offense was missing key players and have shown us repeatedly they can get things done, it seems like it makes a lot more sense to point out the defensive failings.

 

And no offense should be expected to deal with a defense whose defensive effort gets praise for only giving up 29 points. That's terrible.

[Brass Cannon 24,810]

Against Penn State the D had some bad penalties and then they completely failed to get pressure on a 5-man rush the whole second half which left our secondary open to be gashed while Hacks had all the time in the world to find his receivers.

 

Against OSU, Urban made adjustments at the half and we didn't. We held them to fewer than 20 running yards the first half, then they came out in a different formation and Elliot destroyed us with it twice. OSU also had tons of dumb penalties making the defense look better. Ultimately though, they were 18 of 27 in the pass and Elliot averaged 11.9 yards-per-carry.

 

And more importantly, they both cut us up in the same way everyone does. With throws between the deep and the under. Those high 20 to low 30 yard passes get us every single time. 

 

It's fair to say the whole team failed against both teams. But, since the offense was missing key players and have shown us repeatedly they can get things done, it seems like it makes a lot more sense to point out the defensive failings.

 

And no offense should be expected to deal with a defense whose defensive effort gets praise for only giving up 29 points. That's terrible.

 

We run the hurry up offense thats exactly what the team is designed to do.  Score fast, score often, outscore opponent. 

 

And if the D got so torched against Penn State in the second half how come they only gave up 10 points.  The FG drive was after a pathetic punt and they only got 15 yards on it.  Thats not really the D failing.  Thats the offense and special teams setting them up to fail and them doing the best they can. 

 

Against OSU they held the #1 team in the country to 34 points.  That is a solid defensive effort for the type of offense we run.  Thats the 3rd fewest points we have allowed all season.  And if the offense had done their job in the first half it would have helped the D in the second half by making the OSUs play calling more predictable. 

 

Hell to add another game the D had us in the MSU game, but they fell apart at the end because they were gassed because the offense couldn't hold onto the ball and let them rest. 

[mdn82 25,510]

Against Penn State the D had some bad penalties and then they completely failed to get pressure on a 5-man rush the whole second half which left our secondary open to be gashed while Hacks had all the time in the world to find his receivers.

Against OSU, Urban made adjustments at the half and we didn't. We held them to fewer than 20 running yards the first half, then they came out in a different formation and Elliot destroyed us with it twice. OSU also had tons of dumb penalties making the defense look better. Ultimately though, they were 18 of 27 in the pass and Elliot averaged 11.9 yards-per-carry.

And more importantly, they both cut us up in the same way everyone does. With throws between the deep and the under. Those high 20 to low 30 yard passes get us every single time.

It's fair to say the whole team failed against both teams. But, since the offense was missing key players and have shown us repeatedly they can get things done, it seems like it makes a lot more sense to point out the defensive failings.

And no offense should be expected to deal with a defense whose defensive effort gets praise for only giving up 29 points. That's terrible.

That YPC of Elliott is deceiving though. He had 200 yards on 3 carries.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

We run the hurry up offense thats exactly what the team is designed to do.  Score fast, score often, outscore opponent. 

 

And if the D got so torched against Penn State in the second half how come they only gave up 10 points.  The FG drive was after a pathetic punt and they only got 15 yards on it.  Thats not really the D failing.  Thats the offense and special teams setting them up to fail and them doing the best they can. 

 

Against OSU they held the #1 team in the country to 34 points.  That is a solid defensive effort for the type of offense we run.  Thats the 3rd fewest points we have allowed all season.  And if the offense had done their job in the first half it would have helped the D in the second half by making the OSUs play calling more predictable. 

 

Hell to add another game the D had us in the MSU game, but they fell apart at the end because they were gassed because the offense couldn't hold onto the ball and let them rest. 

If our D is so good, why are they ranked 104th in the country (and were 110th until yesterday's game)?

 

Yes, we run a hurry up offense designed to score quickly and frequently. I don't understand why you believe that means the defense should be praised for giving up "only" 29 points or "only" 10 points in a half? Are you saying because our offense is designed to score quickly our defense is designed to let them score? Or what? Our offense's ability to score and the defense's ability to stop a score are not connected like that. 

 

I mean, I don't even know what to say. If you believe that allowing a team to score 34 or 29 points is a defensive wall, then I can't imagine what they would have to do for you to believe they didn't play well. I guess your argument is, our defense doesn't have to be "good" because our offense is supposed to score well enough to make up for it? Because we run a fast-paced offense we should praise the defense for "only" giving up 34 points? That's not really an argument for the defense. Maybe if we had a defense who could occasionally hold a team to under 3 touchdowns in a game or get off the field on 3rd down then our offense wouldn't have to score at least 35 points a game to ever have a shot at winning.

 

How many successful teams can you point to who have to score at least 3 touchdowns + a field goal to win a single game? Even Baylor has held teams to 7. What team do you think should be our model so we can consistently win while our defense gives up 34 points?

 

 

That YPC of Elliott is deceiving though. He had 200 yards on 3 carries.

And it's bad defensive play to let the other teams star RB get 200 yards on 3 carries. 

[Naturalhoosier 15,434]

It's a combination of everything.

--our receivers are inconsistent in making catches
--our cover corners can't cover very well
--the d-line can't break the outside edge
--the blitz has seen been more bad than good
--the middle d-line has racked up a fair amount of penalties
--our QB stares down receivers and floats passes >30 yards

The only thing consistent is Jordan Howard and the o-line. Not on every play in every game, but as a body of work they have done consistently well. Also Howard holds on to that ball. It feels like our fumbles are down down by a significant margin but I could be mistaken.

[Seeking6 33]

Giving praise for 34 and 29? Our Defense is one of the key reasons that we continue to become a bubble bowl eligible team every single year. Just one play vs Michigan, one play vs Rutgers....even using your example of Ohio St. One play holds any of those long runs and changes game.

 

I'm ticked at our clock management. I'm ticked at not running Howard. In the end though our defense is the reason we've been beat 6 straight. Anyone who doesn't see that either has a nephew on the team or a relative on the defensive staff.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

It's a combination of everything.

--our receivers are inconsistent in making catches
--our cover corners can't cover very well
--the d-line can't break the outside edge
--the blitz has seen been more bad than good
--the middle d-line has racked up a fair amount of penalties
--our QB stares down receivers and floats passes >30 yards

The only thing consistent is Jordan Howard and the o-line. Not on every play in every game, but as a body of work they have done consistently well. Also Howard holds on to that ball. It feels like our fumbles are down down by a significant margin but I could be mistaken.

The blitz is one of the biggest (or at least most visible) issues with the defense.

 

It seems when it is working well (and it has worked very well), Knorr backs off of it or doesn't keep it fresh enough to stop it from being picked up every time. It was great during MSU, in some parts of Iowa it was helping, PSU it was a huge factor, but eventually the play-calling stops matching their O-line and we're either committing to the blitz but being picked up and leaving guys open behind or not committing and giving the QB unlimited time for WRs to break coverage, which will inevitably happen no matter how good the secondary is. Knorr just seems to have trouble finding that sweet spot where he gets pressure but doesn't sacrifice the rest of the defense for it.

 

How many of the plays that saved Michigan Saturday night came during big blitzes that were immediately picked up?

[Brass Cannon 24,810]

If our D is so good, why are they ranked 104th in the country (and were 110th until yesterday's game)?

 

Yes, we run a hurry up offense designed to score quickly and frequently. I don't understand why you believe that means the defense should be praised for giving up "only" 29 points or "only" 10 points in a half? Are you saying because our offense is designed to score quickly our defense is designed to let them score? Or what? Our offense's ability to score and the defense's ability to stop a score are not connected like that. 

 

I mean, I don't even know what to say. If you believe that allowing a team to score 34 or 29 points is a defensive wall, then I can't imagine what they would have to do for you to believe they didn't play well. I guess your argument is, our defense doesn't have to be "good" because our offense is supposed to score well enough to make up for it? Because we run a fast-paced offense we should praise the defense for "only" giving up 34 points? That's not really an argument for the defense. Maybe if we had a defense who could occasionally hold a team to under 3 touchdowns in a game or get off the field on 3rd down then our offense wouldn't have to score at least 35 points a game to ever have a shot at winning.

 

How many successful teams can you point to who have to score at least 3 touchdowns + a field goal to win a single game? Even Baylor has held teams to 7. What team do you think should be our model so we can consistently win while our defense gives up 34 points?

 

 

And it's bad defensive play to let the other teams star RB get 200 yards on 3 carries. 

 

I never said our D was good.  Your putting words in my mouth to make my point less valid. 

 

Our D put us in position to win in 2 or 3 games this year despite not being good.  And our offense has crapped the bed.  Our offense is supposed to be constant and consistent side of the ball.  

 

They scored 10 points on the first 10 possessions of the game against OSU.  The defense had held OSU in check the D should have had the benefit of a 24-6 lead, instead they had a 10-6 lead.  10 of the 17 points against OSU in the second half had to come off turnovers because the offense couldn't get their crap together to mount an 80 yard drive. 

 

Against Penn State we had slightly over 24 minutes time of possession.  We had 7 points the entirety of the Penn State game. Penn state 

 

They hold these opponents pretty well during the first 3 quarters but then get blown out in the 4th because they are built to play with a lead, and they occasionally need to rest with a long drive. 

 

I never said our defense was good.  But to act like we are always losing because of our defense is stupid.  They have given us chances.  But they are rarely set up for success.  Playing 35+ minutes a game with a deficit. 

[Brass Cannon 24,810]

Giving praise for 34 and 29? Our Defense is one of the key reasons that we continue to become a bubble bowl eligible team every single year. Just one play vs Michigan, one play vs Rutgers....even using your example of Ohio St. One play holds any of those long runs and changes game.

 

I'm ticked at our clock management. I'm ticked at not running Howard. In the end though our defense is the reason we've been beat 6 straight. Anyone who doesn't see that either has a nephew on the team or a relative on the defensive staff.

 

At what point is the onus on the offense to give the D time to rest

 

All 4 of Penn States TDs came after IU possessions of 2 minutes or less. 

3 of the 4 OSU TDs came after IU possessions of 2 minutes or less. 

 

Some of them were even less than a minute. 

 

They are a defense built to play in conjunction with a high powered if the offense could get its crap together they would look better. 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I never said our D was good.  Your putting words in my mouth to make my point less valid. 

 

Our D put us in position to win in 2 or 3 games this year despite not being good.  And our offense has crapped the bed.  Our offense is supposed to be constant and consistent side of the ball.  

 

They scored 10 points on the first 10 possessions of the game against OSU.  The defense had held OSU in check the D should have had the benefit of a 24-6 lead, instead they had a 10-6 lead.  10 of the 17 points against OSU in the second half had to come off turnovers because the offense couldn't get their crap together to mount an 80 yard drive. 

 

Against Penn State we had slightly over 24 minutes time of possession.  We had 7 points the entirety of the Penn State game. Penn state 

 

They hold these opponents pretty well during the first 3 quarters but then get blown out in the 4th because they are built to play with a lead, and they occasionally need to rest with a long drive. 

 

I never said our defense was good.  But to act like we are always losing because of our defense is stupid.  They have given us chances.  But they are rarely set up for success.  Playing 35+ minutes a game with a deficit. 

 

Do you have any examples of total offensive failure using our starters? Or just OSU and PSU? I mean, no one is ever going to argue Zander Diamont or Kirk Cameron properly fits the offensive scheme. Did our defense put us in the position to win but we lost because of the offense against Rutgers? Michigan? MSU? Iowa? Did our defense actually put us in a position to win against OSU and PSU or are those just two games where they played better than the offense? Our offense can't be constant and consistent without Sudfeld and Howard and I don't think anyone believes they're supposed to be. We aren't designed deep.

 

People blame the defense because through every single game they've been bad. They've been bad in the same ways over and over. Teams score at will against us, especially during the end of the game. It's nice that during four games we had an offense high-powered enough to cover up the defensive failings, but that does not mean the defense is not failing. A team that has a defense so bad they need to score 3 points per possession or the offense is letting the defense down has a bad defense.

 

Even when playing with a lead, the defense cannot do the basic tasks asked of them. And that you're celebrating games where the defense put us in such a great position because all the offense had to do was make an 80-yard drive just shows how truly awful they are. 

[Seeking6 33]

So basically your point is that our offense needs to slow down how often/fast it scores because it's their responsibility to help the defense out too? Maybe Howard should start stopping after 9 yards (even with open field ahead of him) just so we don't get a first down and give our defense an extra 15-25 seconds to rest...

 

In terms of how quickly Penn St and Ohio St scored. Take a look at the landscape of college football. 2 minutes drives are sometimes an eternity with stoppage of play every first down. 

 

We can agree to disagree....but  IU Defense is the only reason we haven't been to a bowl game recently and quite honestly over the last 20+ years. 

[Naturalhoosier 15,434]

We can agree to disagree....but IU Defense is the only reason we haven't been to a bowl game recently and quite honestly over the last 20+ years.

Your arguments are sound but to say that the defense is the only reason we haven't been to a bowl game...etc etc is a tad naive.

[sirhoosierlot 2,764]

I was at the game and when we were driving on them with about 2 min to go my friend said "we are leaving way too much time on the clock"...and he was right. We gave away the game in the last two minutes. I swear I'm starting to think our program is cursed or something.

Your friend sounds like a football savant. He should be on television.

[ThompsonHoosier 3,414]

Your friend sounds like a football savant. He should be on television.

No he's kind of annoying sometimes!

[IUsafety 2,775]

Foster Farms
Schlabach: Indiana vs. Washington State
McMurphy: Penn State vs. Utah


Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl
Schlabach: California vs. Colorado State
McMurphy: Utah State vs. Indiana

Still hanging on.

[Hovadipo 56,256]

Foster Farms
Schlabach: Indiana vs. Washington State

Winner of that game would need 85 points.

[Seeking6 33]

Your arguments are sound but to say that the defense is the only reason we haven't been to a bowl game...etc etc is a tad naive.

Of course it's not the only reason but for the sake of all facets of each game....our defense over the years is numero uno.

[IUsafety 2,775]

Winner of that game would need 85 points.

Would be a fun game to watch. Not much separates us from them except they have won the close games.

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

All in all, still a much more entertaining year that we are used too. Im not in the "give Wilson more time" crowd but I definitely dont think he should move on. You guys are much smarter than I am with football though. Maybe I should go check the recruiting board and see how things are looking.

[LIHoosier 26,205]

Winner of that game would need 85 points.

It would take a triple digit number to consider betting the under.