IU vs Bellarmine Post Game Thread

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

To add to the lineup discussion. Courtesy of The Assembly Call:

25 lineups (24 unique) and 12 players were used.
The starters were the only group to play together more than once, finishing at -4 for the game.
Just six combinations were used more than two minutes, while nine played less than one minute.
Hartman and Johnson were both part of the top two lineups, which combined to go +13 in 5:08.
In all, 10 lineups outscored Bellarmine, and at least one of Hartman or Johnson was in nine of those combinations.

12 players? I didn't even remember Niego playing. Poor Priller. He is the only eligible player, scholarship or walk-on, who didn't see the floor.

[yogisballin 2,379]

This is what I was trying to find out, but couldn't since I couldn't watch.

I did notice when we played our starters in the second half and Bellarmine started hitting a bunch of threes, we pulled Bryant and went with a 3 guard lineup with RoJo (I think?), and that seemed to help lock down the perimeter.

If we can do things like that with our defense, I'm really liking this squad.

If I remember correctly, Bielfeldt over helped on 2 of those 3 3ptrs by Suggs. I still think we would be better with Bielfeldt coming off the bench. I think it would really benefit the team if he could develop into a Jarrad Odle type player. After these 2 exhibitions for some reason I catch myself cringing when he takes a jumper. And he has done fairly decent in that department. Who do we replace him with? Hartman? Go back to the 3 guard lineup? There is such a big drop off after our top 6.

I do however like what Morgan can bring to the table. Yes he is not flashy but seems to do the little things. On TB, man he is raw! Not HMP raw but he still has a ways to go, on the offensive end. I would've like to see us get him a lil more involved than we did last night. Sorry for my rant guys

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

If I remember correctly, Bielfeldt over helped on 2 of those 3 3ptrs by Suggs. I still think we would be better with Bielfeldt coming off the bench. I think it would really benefit the team if he could develop into a Jarrad Odle type player. After these 2 exhibitions for some reason I catch myself cringing when he takes a jumper. And he has done fairly decent in that department. Who do we replace him with? Hartman? Go back to the 3 guard lineup? There is such a big drop off after our top 6.

I do however like what Morgan can bring to the table. Yes he is not flashy but seems to do the little things. On TB, man he is raw! Not HMP raw but he still has a ways to go, on the offensive end. I would've like to see us get him a lil more involved than we did last night. Sorry for my rant guys

Bielfeldt should never take a shot unless the shot selection is just too perfect to pass up or if he's scoring from the post. He is absolutely not here to score on jumpers. Maybe on another team, but he joined an elite shooting team and those elite shooters should be taking those shots.

 

I think a 3 guard lineup plays our strengths better. Yogi, JBJ, Troy, and Tommy are obvious. Rojo hasn't started I think primarily so he can relieve Yogi, but there has to be a better way of doing it. He should be the third starter as the all-around player who can do everything well. Max adds size and leadership, but isn't offensively at the right level. Hartman is another great all-around player like Rojo. He also plays very well coming off the bench, a lot like Will was a great 6th man but not a great starter. Except Hartman is a good starter, just better off the bench. 

 

Hartman and Rojo sharing starting depending on matchups would work for me too. Even Max occasionally when size is going to change the game, but usually not. He needs to fall into his role, adding size sometimes, experience all the time. He should be giving TB advice from the bench when he isn't playing. OG and Juwan both are doing well. They're freshman and they play like freshman. They should get minutes where appropriate and take everything in while it's not. They'll develop into really nice players for the program, but we can't expect the moon from them right now.

 

Who didn't I cover? Oh yeah, Z3. If Z3 keeps missing threes then there is no reason for him to ever see the floor. His laser accuracy and ability to always catch and shoot without issue are what made him the second most efficient offensive player in the nation and a value to the team last year. He's still a huge liability on defense and doesn't add much else on offense. Maybe he just needs to find his rhythm and that's fine. But, if he can't find it then he can't play. 

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

12 players? I didn't even remember Niego playing. Poor Priller. He is the only eligible player, scholarship or walk-on, who didn't see the floor.

Quentin Taylor is eligible correct? I don't think he played. I know Newkirk & Fuchs aren't but don't we have a 16 man roster right now?

 

Surely Priller is ahead of him in the pecking order... I mean why doesn't CTC see what we all see with MSB?

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Quentin Taylor is eligible correct? I don't think he played. I know Newkirk & Fuchs aren't but don't we have a 16 man roster right now?

 

Surely Priller is ahead of him in the pecking order... I mean why doesn't CTC see what we all see with MSB?

Oh yeah. Totally forgot him. Will probably forget him again.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Disagree with the comments about not wanting Beifeldt to shoot. He actually has a fairly nice jumper, and I believe a lot of the reason we've seen him playing alongside Bryant is because Crean sees him as a big man who can also stretch the floor and draw the defenders out of the post away from Bryant. He should avoid 3's, but he's 6 of 13 from 2. He also appears to be fairly comfortable in that 12-16 foot range. I'd like to see him continue to be a threat there.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Disagree with the comments about not wanting Beifeldt to shoot. He actually has a fairly nice jumper, and I believe a lot of the reason we've seen him playing alongside Bryant is because Crean sees him as a big man who can also stretch the floor and draw the defenders out of the post away from Bryant. He should avoid 3's, but he's 6 of 13 from 2. He's also appears to be fairly comfortable in that 12-16 foot range. I'd like to see him continue to be a threat there.

6-of-13

 

But, 4-of-7 and only 2-of-6. So, which game is the real Max? How many of the makes/misses were on jumpers?

[Old Friend 8,389]

I would narrow it to lack of depth and experience upfront. Bryant is a freshmen and Bielfelt is a career sub from Michigan even though they lacked a front court presence much of the time as well.

Yeah....this.  I would have thought people knew what I meant.  And yes, I watched the game.  Assuming Williams plays a wing, we don't have a single front court player on the roster (other than Priller and Hartman if you count him, I think he's a tweener) who has experience in our system.  Juwan Morgan is 3rd in line, and Bielfelt, who was marginal at Michigan, is #2.  A freshman is #1.  Deepest team Crean's had??   Not even close.   Warm, inexperienced bodies don't equate to depth.   Let's talk in a month and see where we are relative to "depth."  If we're counting on Onunoby and Morgan to provide it, we have a "maybe."  Not "depth."   I'll stick with "we're really good if we stay with our top 6-7 kids.  After that, it's marginal."    I also think we have some significant limitations defensively because we can't afford Bryant in foul trouble; and he's going to have to play 30+ minutes every night in order for this team to maximize it's potential.   That means to me that we have a high glass ceiling.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,014]

I don't think TB's lungs can handle 30+ minutes per game for a season. Probably going to be more around 25-28. Interesting thing is this is one of the most interesting factors going into this season. Based on roster makeup it would seem we need TB 30-35 minutes per game.

Need much more of a sampling but our front court is very young and thin.

[BGleas 7,917]

If there's two things this team is missing, it's interior depth and an athletic 6-5 to 6-7 wing that allows Troy to play the 4.

IU would be a true contender if we had something like:
Yogi
JBJ
Wing with size
Troy
Bryant

And then you bring Rojo, Max, Zeisloft, Hartman and a true backup 5 off the bench.

Yeah....this.  I would have thought people knew what I meant.  And yes, I watched the game.  Assuming Williams plays a wing, we don't have a single front court player on the roster (other than Priller and Hartman if you count him, I think he's a tweener) who has experience in our system.  Juwan Morgan is 3rd in line, and Bielfelt, who was marginal at Michigan, is #2.  A freshman is #1.  Deepest team Crean's had??   Not even close.   Warm, inexperienced bodies don't equate to depth.   Let's talk in a month and see where we are relative to "depth."  If we're counting on Onunoby and Morgan to provide it, we have a "maybe."  Not "depth."   I'll stick with "we're really good if we stay with our top 6-7 kids.  After that, it's marginal."    I also think we have some significant limitations defensively because we can't afford Bryant in foul trouble; and he's going to have to play 30+ minutes every night in order for this team to maximize it's potential.   That means to me that we have a high glass ceiling.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

If there's two things this team is missing, it's interior depth and an athletic 6-5 to 6-7 wing that allows Troy to play the 4.

IU would be a true contender if we had something like:
Yogi
JBJ
Wing with size
Troy
Bryant

And then you bring Rojo, Max, Zeisloft, Hartman and a true backup 5 off the bench.
 

 

Wing with size... OG? Step up young man.

[mdn82 25,546]

Yeah....this. I would have thought people knew what I meant. And yes, I watched the game. Assuming Williams plays a wing, we don't have a single front court player on the roster (other than Priller and Hartman if you count him, I think he's a tweener) who has experience in our system. Juwan Morgan is 3rd in line, and Bielfelt, who was marginal at Michigan, is #2. A freshman is #1. Deepest team Crean's had?? Not even close. Warm, inexperienced bodies don't equate to depth. Let's talk in a month and see where we are relative to "depth." If we're counting on Onunoby and Morgan to provide it, we have a "maybe." Not "depth." I'll stick with "we're really good if we stay with our top 6-7 kids. After that, it's marginal." I also think we have some significant limitations defensively because we can't afford Bryant in foul trouble; and he's going to have to play 30+ minutes every night in order for this team to maximize it's potential. That means to me that we have a high glass ceiling.

I think by those standards every team has a glass ceiling then. I mean if your best player at a position has to stay on the court 30 min to be good then yes everyone has a glass ceiling. I didn't realize we were putting those limitations on teams this early in a season.

[KingPG21 6,587]

41-26 we out--rebounded them and they were about the same size. There's a bright spot.

 

We also shot 50% the second half even though it did not seem like it.

I mean, if they are the same size as us there really isn't any reason we shouldn't outrebound the opponent. Based on our athletic ability alone we should be able to, athleticism plays a big part in being able to rebound outside of your area. Our issue isn't getting outrebounded by guys that have the same size as us, our issue is we're going to play a number of teams that are bigger, in some cases considerably bigger. Our athleticism, Troy, should help, but when he is going up against guys that are 6'10, 230+ pounds that are really good at the basics of rebounding he won't win a ton of those

[Old Friend 8,389]

I think by those standards every team has a glass ceiling then. I mean if your best player at a position has to stay on the court 30 min to be good then yes everyone has a glass ceiling. I didn't realize we were putting those limitations on teams this early in a season.

Everybody's best interior player and supposed "missing piece" isn't an inexperienced freshman a team is counting on for 30 minutes a night in order to reach its potential.    People can be realistic or not, but to be critical of reality seems a fool's errand.   We are absolutely counting on a freshman to anchor our interior against teams in a conference (especially our chief rival) who have plenty of depth, plenty of experience, and plenty of size.     I don't know of many teams who have to count on 150 minutes every night from it's 5 best players, by the way.    We can deal with Blackmon, Johnson, Hartman, Bielfelt, or Zeisloft getting into foul trouble.   We cannot get away with Bryant in foul trouble.   That's just reality, and it's a limitation; like it or not.  This team is not close to perfect or complete; and we struggled for long stretches against Bellarmine and Ottowa.  We'll see a lot better than that.   

[coonhounds 9,530]

I can't put much stock in a exhibition game. If I remember right Noah v went 0 for 12 from free throw line in his exhibition game and he ended up being good from the line all season. I listened to crean on radio and there was a bunch of things he listed that they haven't even worked on yet wish I could remember what all they were in am sure somebody can help me out with that. There are some things I don't like and am worried about but will wait till real games to make any kind of real judgment. This team should at least be a top 20 team all season with the players we have and if they aren't I will probably blame crean. Just hope they can stay healthy and make a strong post season run. Can't wait for Friday!

[mdn82 25,546]

Everybody's best interior player and supposed "missing piece" isn't an inexperienced freshman a team is counting on for 30 minutes a night in order to reach its potential.    People can be realistic or not, but to be critical of reality seems a fool's errand.   We are absolutely counting on a freshman to anchor our interior against teams in a conference (especially our chief rival) who have plenty of depth, plenty of experience, and plenty of size.     I don't know of many teams who have to count on 150 minutes every night from it's 5 best players, by the way.    We can deal with Blackmon, Johnson, Hartman, Bielfelt, or Zeisloft getting into foul trouble.   We cannot get away with Bryant in foul trouble.   That's just reality, and it's a limitation; like it or not.  This team is not close to perfect or complete; and we struggled for long stretches against Bellarmine and Ottowa.  We'll see a lot better than that.   

That is fair if we are discussing Purdue.  We are not a good matchup with them at all inside.  Just as we are not a good matchup for them outside.  Other than them, I don't see too many teams where we are that overmatched inside.  I just don't see where you gather that much intel from 2 exhebition games where "we struggled for long stretches".  You coach.  Do you honestly play your midseason lineup in exhibition games their normal minutes?  We can pick bits and pieces out of the games, but to act like we can gather true patterns is a stretch.  You are right about one thing imo, we will see a lot better than that.  So will they.  Ryan Burton will not be in a game in the first half against a team worth a damn the rest of the season.  He was put in at the under 4 with us up 23.  Come on man.  I know you like to analyze the hell out of this the same as I do, but really?  You are really stressing big depth at this point?  Purdue is the only big team we play.  Max is far better than Tom Pritchard as a 5th year senior.  This is unfortunately the best depth Crean has had.  You can ignore who he has had by his own doing if you want.  But I take Max over HMP every day of the week.  Now if we had Holt?  I would say we are deep. 

[davewood 119]

I agree. And I have no problem giving up a lead to play guys in exhibition games who need the experience. I just think Max is much more limited vs what some others think.

I agree about Max. Hopefully his mid-range jumper is as good as they say. He's a good rebounder and put back guy, but his foot work in the post leaves a lot to be desired

[Alford Bailey 12,424]

Everybody's best interior player and supposed "missing piece" isn't an inexperienced freshman a team is counting on for 30 minutes a night in order to reach its potential.    People can be realistic or not, but to be critical of reality seems a fool's errand.   We are absolutely counting on a freshman to anchor our interior against teams in a conference (especially our chief rival) who have plenty of depth, plenty of experience, and plenty of size.     I don't know of many teams who have to count on 150 minutes every night from it's 5 best players, by the way.    We can deal with Blackmon, Johnson, Hartman, Bielfelt, or Zeisloft getting into foul trouble.   We cannot get away with Bryant in foul trouble.   That's just reality, and it's a limitation; like it or not.  This team is not close to perfect or complete; and we struggled for long stretches against Bellarmine and Ottowa.  We'll see a lot better than that.   

We mostly got away with it Cody's freshmen year so guys think Bryant can do the same. Since Bryant is already in the "boot of death" I dont have much faith he can give 30 min. a night.

[davewood 119]

I agree. And I have no problem giving up a lead to play guys in exhibition games who need the experience. I just think Max is much more limited vs what some others think.

I agree about Max. Hopefully his mid-range jumper is as good as they say. He's a good rebounder and put back guy, but his foot work in the post leaves a lot to be desired

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I agree about Max. Hopefully his mid-range jumper is as good as they say. He's a good rebounder and put back guy, but his foot work in the post leaves a lot to be desired

Who is the "they" in that sentence?