IUFB HC Candidates

[JSHoosier 20,235]

That is just what you guys sound like...
Lets fire, Lets get so and so...
Arm chair QB's....
The Man will build a winning program just set back and let him do his job....

You're seeing IUFB fans that are starting to have expectations, that's a good thing.  You're seeing fans with the mindset that blowing a 25 point lead to Rutgers in year 5 is unacceptable, instead of "well, same old IUFB"; that's a good thing.

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

Bill Lynch in 3 seasons after the interim tag came off: 12-24.


Wilson in 4.5 seasons: 18-37.


How is Wilson "turning the program around?"

I understand where you're coming from, but you have to look at things outside of just wins and losses. Wilson has built some promise on the offensive side of the ball, but to me it's not that we are 18-37 it's how we're losing games. If you have to score 56 to beat Rutgers then I don't see what promise you have as a coach. I'm fine with giving Wilson another year, but regardless of out record the Defense better make a huge step forward.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

U PU fans(opps i mean IU fans) needs to cool your jets....
PU wanted to get rid of Tiller and go to the next level, and they idid, the Basement!!!!!
Wilson is turning this program around, and some the coaches have to learn also....
This will make the Coaching staff better and the Players better...
Don't f*** up and get rid of a coach and spend another 5 or 6 years to build a program to do the same thing!!!!
Wilson is getting players to come to Indiana that normally would not....
I can confirm that....
My Grandson grew up in Lafayette...
I lived next door to Greg Olson, at the time PU quarter back coach, so Brandon grew up knowing Drew Brees...
His other grand parents both worked at PU, his father Graduated from PU. Only thing that was in his closet was Black And Gold...
He chose IU over 11 other University...

I don't know that the situations are as comparable as you make them out to be.

 

Purdue didn't get rid of Tiller, he retired after a bad season. He was wildly successful at Purdue, missing only two bowls his entire tenure and reshaping the landscape of college offense. He had a long 11-year career and turned a team who had had only two winning records in 18 years into a perennial contender. And did so immediately, he was in a bowl his first year.

 

CKW is no Joe Tiller. Very few coaches are Joe Tiller, so we're already on the wrong foot trying to compare the two. CKW has had zero bowl games and 6 Big Ten victories in his tenure btw. I mean, they aren't even close. But, I'll roll with it.

 

Purdue then made a horrible hiring decision in Danny Hope because he had been Tiller's OC and Tiller had a great offense. Danny Hope was not head coach material. He ended up bringing down the whole program, and was ultimately let go because he couldn't hack it (despite two bowl games in his final two seasons). Danny Hope is actually pretty similar to CKW in his focus and style. He's also proof Tiller wasn't forced out, because you don't force someone out then hire their OC.

 

Purdue decided they weren't done with horrible hiring decisions and hired Hazell. This hire was like hiring the coach of some 14 seed who has a good first couple of rounds in the NCAA Tourny. Hazell peaked at exactly the right moment and Purdue bit hard. Hazell had minimal experience (mostly a position coach), but he took over a decent Kent State team and led them to a mediocre season. Then, the next year, he took that Kent State team and dominated the MAC in the regular season and got some national attention (lost all his postseason games though). Purdue hired him and... there they are.

 

So, as long as we aren't monumentally stupid in our hiring decisions, we should end up better than Purdue did.

 

I mean, when are people going to learn you never hire a guy just because he coached a single good season?

[JSHoosier 20,235]

I understand where you're coming from, but you have to look at things outside of just wins and losses. Wilson has built some promise on the offensive side of the ball, but to me it's not that we are 18-37 it's how we're losing games. If you have to score 56 to beat Rutgers then I don't see what promise you have as a coach. I'm fine with giving Wilson another year, but regardless of out record the Defense better make a huge step forward.

We read a lot about the defense taking a big step forward this year though.  They've shown flashes, they showed flashes last season, but for the most part it's just been more of the same.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

We read a lot about the defense taking a big step forward this year though.  They've shown flashes, they showed flashes last season, but for the most part it's just been more of the same.

We hear about the defense taking a big step forward every year. We make some incremental steps maybe, but at this rate it will be another decade before we have a good defense. Here we are ranked 83rd in defense, 91st last year, 97th the year before, 114th the year before, 119th the year before so, at the moment we at least look like we're improving but not by much (and we are barely in to Big Ten play when our D will really be challenged). 

 

It's the exact problem IUBB has; you can't win consistently if your entire game plan is score and hope the opposing offense screws up.

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

We read a lot about the defense taking a big step forward this year though. They've shown flashes, they showed flashes last season, but for the most part it's just been more of the same.

I know that's why at the end of next year it better be proven that a BIG step has been taken.

[KingPG21 6,584]

I know that's why at the end of next year it better be proven that a BIG step has been taken.

Isn't this the exact same argument people made last season at this time..... *hint* yes it is/was

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

Isn't this the exact same argument people made last season at this time..... *hint* yes it is/was

Which has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on our coaching situation, but thank you for that pointless information.

[KingPG21 6,584]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on our coaching situation, but thank you for that pointless information.

Wasn't pointless. Point is people can talk about a leap all they want, it hasn't happened. 

 

I even like Wilson, but if there was going to be a leap in the defensive performance then it would have happened by now. Plus, people aren't really talking about it, but his recruiting is kind of going downhill. Like we're competing with Purdue for the worst recruiting class as of 2016 right now. He had his big recruiting class, which was defensive based and it still hasn't really shown a leap on the field. 

 

Edit: Also, my bad I read your first comment as "I believe we'll see a big step up by the end of next season", instead of the " By the end of next year there better be results". Just saying it might be in our best interest to actually look for a defensive minded coach. 

[TheWatShot 14,000]

I understand where you're coming from, but you have to look at things outside of just wins and losses. 

 

Wins and losses are all that matters. We heard the same things when Lynch was here: the program is getting better because we're selling more tickets, recruiting is on the upswing because our class is 10th in the Big Ten instead of 11th, etc. 

 

 

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why Wilson is doing a good job here or why he deserves more time. How many successful coaches out there won at a .333 clip for five seasons and then started to win a lot more? All I hear is wishful thinking, timidity, mindless repetition of lame conventional wisdom and a general loser attitude. It's why we get coaches like Bill Lynch, Kevin Wilson, Mike Davis and Tom Crean and then keep them around for too long. 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Wins and losses are all that matters. We heard the same things when Lynch was here: the program is getting better because we're selling more tickets, recruiting is on the upswing because our class is 10th in the Big Ten instead of 11th, etc. 

 

 

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why Wilson is doing a good job here or why he deserves more time. How many successful coaches out there won at a .333 clip for five seasons and then started to win a lot more? All I hear is wishful thinking, timidity, mindless repetition of lame conventional wisdom and a general loser attitude. It's why we get coaches like Bill Lynch, Kevin Wilson, Mike Davis and Tom Crean and then keep them around for too long. 

 

I know you're not making the argument. But, I'll just point out recruiting has actually slipped over the past three years. 42nd ranked class in 2013, 48th in 2014, 51st in 2015, (and it's still pretty darn early but...) 75th in 2016.

[JSHoosier 20,235]

I know you're not making the argument. But, I'll just point out recruiting has actually slipped over the past three years. 42nd ranked class in 2013, 48th in 2014, 51st in 2015, (and it's still pretty darn early but...) 75th in 2016.

It could keep slipping as well.  He can try and sell promise as much as he wants, but eventually he has to perform and show the promise is being fulfilled.  If he's not to that point he's rapidly approaching and so far it doesn't look good.

[Magnanimous 4,603]

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why Wilson is doing a good job here or why he deserves more time. How many successful coaches out there won at a .333 clip for five seasons and then started to win a lot more? All I hear is wishful thinking, timidity, mindless repetition of lame conventional wisdom and a general loser attitude. It's why we get coaches like Bill Lynch, Kevin Wilson, Mike Davis and Tom Crean and then keep them around for too long. 

 

Most competent coaches get it done within a few years provided they have the pieces in place. Wilson built this team from scratch, so he was given the benefit of the doubt for an extended period (similar to Crean), but now that the team is in place, the same coaching deficiencies we pinned on a young team can't be brushed aside anymore (like Crean again). We know who we have at this point with Wilson and he isn't going to cut it. This is the season we can definitively say it. It may have been last year but that got scratched after Nate got hurt, and the Missouri win bought him some time. 

 

Going back to what I said about most great coaches getting it done within a few years provided the pieces are in place, over the last 15 or so years the national championships came within a a few years of a new coach taking over:

• Urban Meyer won his first UF NC in year 2 and his first OSU NC in year 3 (though he went undefeated his first season at OSU at well)
• Jimbo Fisher won his first FSU NC in year 4
• Nick Saban won his first LSU NC in year 4 and his first Bama NC in year 3
• Les Miles won his first LSU NC in year 3
• Pete Carroll won his first USC NC in year 3
• Larry Coker won his first Miami NC in year 1
• Bob Stoops won his first OU NC in year 2
• Lloyd Carr won his first UM NC in year 3

Not that IU should have the same expectations as these other programs right now, but Wilson likely won't make a bowl game in year 5 and the momentum/recruiting he built up the last few years is plateauing at best. There will be a better foundation for the next coach than what Wilson inherited, but unless he pulls something big out of his ass in the latter half of this season, he's done. I wouldn't even keep him if we go 6-6 and bowling. 

[ThompsonHoosier 3,414]

At the beginning of the season I was 80/20 in favor of Wilson. I really thought this was going to be the season we made big progress (even after the SIU game) and won 7 or 8 games. At this point I'm 50/50 on keeping or firing Wilson after this season. The season is not over, but unless there is an upset in one of the next 3 games and we win at Maryland and Purdue; I don't know if I can say he did enough to earn an extension. The funny thing is, if we would have won the Rutgers game (even if it was an ugly ugly win) most people would be happy with the program being 5-2. That game just brought a huge dark cloud over Wilson and the entire coaching staff.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Most competent coaches get it done within a few years provided they have the pieces in place. Wilson built this team from scratch, so he was given the benefit of the doubt for an extended period (similar to Crean), but now that the team is in place, the same coaching deficiencies we pinned on a young team can't be brushed aside anymore (like Crean again). We know who we have at this point with Wilson and he isn't going to cut it. This is the season we can definitively say it. It may have been last year but that got scratched after Nate got hurt, and the Missouri win bought him some time. 

 

I don't mean to keep building the intellectual argument against Wilson, there just is a good one. Personally, I don't think we're going to hire a better coach no matter what and we should be resigned to being at the bottom of the Big Ten.

 

Anyway...

 

Coach Wilson inherited a team that was just about where he is now. I know there is always some turmoil in switching coaches, but it's not really comparable to the dumpster fire Crean inherited. Wilson came into Roberson, Wynn, and Latimer and posted a 1-11. Bill Lynch had a 5-7 season his last year. 

[akhosrof 1,168]

http://www.indystar.com/story/hoosier-insider/2015/10/22/indiana-football-kevin-wilson-rutgers-fan-frustration/74260236/

Article from the Indy star with a "careful what you wish for" theme. Overall the article makes some OK points but I disagree with a couple of the main points:

It's hard to deny Wilson has turned IU football into a more competitive product. Indiana has improved its recruiting and overall talent level, thanks to a combination of significant facilities upgrades and better investment in staffing across the board.

The program lacks a natural recruiting base. It is surrounded on three sides, geographically, by powerhouse programs and conferences.

I don't agree with this at all. First, as others have pointed out recruiting has gotten worse the past two years.

Second, there is plenty of talent instate and in Ohio. Michigan, OSU and ND are programs that recruit nationally. They cannot get every top recruit in the region. Even when you consider the next tier of recruits in Ohio being recruited by PSU, MSU and Wisconsin, we are still getting beat by UK, Pitt, and heck even some MAC schools, for that next tier, which is still very good.

Here is an article detailing how the younger Stoops at UK has prioritized OSU leftovers in Ohio, and has built top recruiting classes.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2015/01/the_big_ten_killer_why_kentuck.html

There is no reason why IU cannot employ the same strategy to get better recruits. Which is why I believe a coach with deep Ohio roots like Pelini or Campbell would be great. We have a coach from NC who is trying to recruit SEC territory, which is equivalent to running in quick sand, while dabbling in a picked over Chicago. I love our guys, but our recruiting strategy is terrible. We are getting beat up in our own territory by Pitt and UK.

[RBB89 3,497]

Making 495K according to the article. Yeah, a quick Google search says Wilson is paid 1.2 which is near the bottom of the conference. The previously mentioned Jeremy Pruitt? 1.3 as a DC.

Campbell has done a pretty good job at Toledo so I'm sure bigger programs will come calling. He might listen to 1.2 or 1.3 since it's such a big raise, but he may not want to take over a dumpster fire.

Hazell did a pretty good job at Toledo too.

[RBB89 3,497]

I wouldn't even keep him if we go 6-6 and bowling.

If we don't get to a bowl, he's done. But if we were to fire him after taking us to a bowl, just because we "only" went 6-6, I may be done too. Not that anyone cares, really, but that would just be so stupid, even for IU. We aren't in a position to give the finger to any bowl appearance. We've been to 9 in 130 years of football. We've lost hundreds of games in hundreds of ways. It's beyond time to get over the Rutgers game. We can talk about settling for mediocrity, blah blah blah and I would love to get to the point where we get to upper tier bowls most years, but we just aren't there, and have really never been there. If we don't win 2 more, it's moot. But all the comments I'm seeing on boards about "even if we go 6-6 I would can him" are mind boggling to me.

[RBB89 3,497]

I don't mean to keep building the intellectual argument against Wilson, there just is a good one. Personally, I don't think we're going to hire a better coach no matter what and we should be resigned to being at the bottom of the Big Ten.

Anyway...

Coach Wilson inherited a team that was just about where he is now. I know there is always some turmoil in switching coaches, but it's not really comparable to the dumpster fire Crean inherited. Wilson came into Roberson, Wynn, and Latimer and posted a 1-11. Bill Lynch had a 5-7 season his last year.

Thats a little misleading, don't you think? Lynch's last year had a RS senior QB and a junior in Doss. Tre, Shane, and Cody were freshmen Wilson's first year.

[TheWatShot 14,000]

Hazell did a pretty good job at Toledo too.

 

Hazell coached at Kent State, and went 16-10 in two seasons. Campbell is 32-13 in his fifth season at Toledo.