Recruiting Momentum

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

You kind of said it. You quoted the post that said it and added "I agree with your sentiments here" and then added the part about the best players not caring about those things. So, I took it to mean you thought that too.

There are plenty of blue chip players IU can recruit. Crean's already recruited numerous blue chip players and has been a finalist for several others. I doubt he paid the ones he got, so the blue chippers are certainly available for IU. Maybe not all of them, but they're there. If Crean gets Bryant that's 5 years in a row with a McDonalds AA.

You didn't say this, but I'm just having a hard time with the line of thinking that IU can't compete with the big boys for players because we won't cheat. Under that premise, basically all of MSU, OSU, Duke, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, Florida, etc are all cheating?
 

I'm talking about the best 7-10 players in America, not the ones IU has gotten. I'm talking about Kentucky, Kansas, and Arizona.

[87ashtonhoosier 150]

I'm talking about the best 7-10 players in America, not the ones IU has gotten. I'm talking about Kentucky, Kansas, and Arizona.

Florida

[HoosierTrav 7,731]

Easy, bud. I know it's hard to see reality with Brad Stevens sack in your face, but it's simply a fact that the noise surrounding this program has influenced the thinking of recruits and their parents. Not that it is going to cost Indiana, but it has everyone in a holding pattern. THAT is why "recruiting momentum" has slowed. That is the only point I wanted to make.

. It's hilarious that you're even speaking on what is and isn't reality. I said give me an example of ONE recruit who was affected negatively by IU fans. You couldn't provide me with ONE! Your absolute certainty that this is the reason IU's recruiting has slowed is laughable and just furthers everyone else's suspicions of your delusions. You'll do everything in your power to deny fact, if that fact gives your daddy a bad image. If you think Brad Stevens wouldn't be a MAJOR upgrade over Crean, then I'm not sure you have any credibility talking basketball. We can go on all night proving how Stevens is far more qualified for the Indiana job than Crean but you've made it clear that you do not care to be confronted with facts. Does it really surprise you that Indiana fans want what Stevens had at Butler? 2 former IU players have said the closest thing they'd seen to the culture of old IU was Brad Stevens program at Butler. Not my words. Not some other "Crean hater's." Those are the words of past players. Are you saying you prefer what we have now over the back to back runner up seasons? You prefer relying on having to have high level recruiting over having the peace of mind that your coach didn't have to win with have 2 high lotto picks and (4) 1000 point scorers (Stevens was in position to win 2 national titles with 0 all Americans)? It's been 3 years now since I've lost my confidence in Crean. I was once a staunch supporter. I've been begging him to make me eat crow but it just hasn't happened. I give him credit whenever it's due, as much as it pains me to do so. What I refuse to do, is give this guy credit for the positive and not hold him accountable when things go wrong.

[BGleas 7,880]

Yeah, I guess we need to define "blue chip" for the conversation to make sense. I consider Zeller, Yogi, and JBJ blue chip players.

I think our fanbase would be doing backflips if we could land players like Zeller, Yogi, JBJ, Creek, RoJo, Watford, etc consistently. On paper, most everyone was really happy with our 12 (ended up not panning out for the most part) 13 (losing Luke was a killer) and fall signing period of the '14 class. It's the Spring of '14 until now that people have problems with.

I'm talking about the best 7-10 players in America, not the ones IU has gotten. I'm talking about Kentucky, Kansas, and Arizona.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,939]

Yeah, I guess we need to define "blue chip" for the conversation to make sense. I consider Zeller, Yogi, and JBJ blue chip players.

I think our fanbase would be doing backflips if we could land players like Zeller, Yogi, JBJ, Creek, RoJo, Watford, etc consistently. On paper, most everyone was really happy with our 12 (ended up not panning out for the most part) 13 (losing Luke was a killer) and fall signing period of the '14 class. It's the Spring of '14 until now that people have problems with.

agree

[87ashtonhoosier 150]

agree

Yes

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

No real proof to back it up but I feel like coach was having a battle within himself as how to recruit.  He switched it up with the '12 and '13 class by going after the stars.  We saw how a few of those turned out and recruiting was setback a year or two because of it.  I see a lot more of Watford and Hulls type recruits coming in hungry.  I'm not saying we won't go after or land a blue-chipper again but I don't see us going after a class full of them. 

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

How old are you, 12? You REALLY get brought down by the actions and comments by Louisville fans?

I was at that game too and heard a lot of booing by Indiana fans and negative comments towards Crean. While I was embarrassed, I had no rebuttal... IU got outplayed and outcoached incredibly from halftime on

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,939]

No real proof to back it up but I feel like coach was having a battle within himself as how to recruit. He switched it up with the '12 and '13 class by going after the stars. We saw how a few of those turned out and recruiting was setback a year or two because of it. I see a lot more of Watford and Hulls type recruits coming in hungry. I'm not saying we won't go after or land a blue-chipper again but I don't see us going after a class full of them.

Ive thought about this as well. May be some truth to it, BUT he continues to recruit the high rated guys without success, so I am thinking it's a strategy of necessity more than choice.

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

I want Crean to recruit tough players. Guys with heart and drive and will not back down or let his team lose. The only guy on out team that embodies that is Yogi. We need more Oladipos, moyes, Howard from Stevens days at Butler, Brian cardinal, shabaaz Napier, Russ smith...

I just mentioned a lot of really talented guys, but the commonality is heart, desire and toughness. We haven't had a lot of those kind of guys

* or no *, I want to see heart that doesn't allow complete melt downs where you lose the second half by 20 points repeatedly

[XLevel 144]

I want Crean to recruit tough players. Guys with heart and drive and will not back down or let his team lose. The only guy on out team that embodies that is Yogi. We need more Oladipos, moyes, Howard from Stevens days at Butler, Brian cardinal, shabaaz Napier, Russ smith...
I just mentioned a lot of really talented guys, but the commonality is heart, desire and toughness. We haven't had a lot of those kind of guys
* or no *, I want to see heart that doesn't allow complete melt downs where you lose the second half by 20 points repeatedly

Have you been in the restroom every time Collin Hartman has played this year?

I really don't see a lack of heart from this group. I think you are way offbase here.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

. It's hilarious that you're even speaking on what is and isn't reality. I said give me an example of ONE recruit who was affected negatively by IU fans. You couldn't provide me with ONE! Your absolute certainty that this is the reason IU's recruiting has slowed is laughable and just furthers everyone else's suspicions of your delusions. You'll do everything in your power to deny fact, if that fact gives your daddy a bad image. If you think Brad Stevens wouldn't be a MAJOR upgrade over Crean, then I'm not sure you have any credibility talking basketball. We can go on all night proving how Stevens is far more qualified for the Indiana job than Crean but you've made it clear that you do not care to be confronted with facts. Does it really surprise you that Indiana fans want what Stevens had at Butler? 2 former IU players have said the closest thing they'd seen to the culture of old IU was Brad Stevens program at Butler. Not my words. Not some other "Crean hater's." Those are the words of past players. Are you saying you prefer what we have now over the back to back runner up seasons? You prefer relying on having to have high level recruiting over having the peace of mind that your coach didn't have to win with have 2 high lotto picks and (4) 1000 point scorers (Stevens was in position to win 2 national titles with 0 all Americans)? It's been 3 years now since I've lost my confidence in Crean. I was once a staunch supporter. I've been begging him to make me eat crow but it just hasn't happened. I give him credit whenever it's due, as much as it pains me to do so. What I refuse to do, is give this guy credit for the positive and not hold him accountable when things go wrong.

I'm not going to debate you any longer as it's clear what the stances are... but this comment gives me pause. This is a huge block IMO. The culture of old IU, whatever the hell that is, isn't coming back. This program kind of started anew in 2008.. (Edit for levity's sake: christ, it had to have been Obama causing all this "change") Why are we as a program constantly looking back? Former player involvement, etc. is incredibly important--it's living history. But, whatever this whole "old IU" stereotype is... it doesn't make much sense for the current coach to have to live up to hallmarks of years gone by. I am NOT knocking tradition's place or value. Maybe IU wants to be a seen as a "hustle" or "play hard" program where guys have to cut their hair and take out their jewelry but that isn't going to win many championships. If that's the aim, we can just hire Matt Painter. He never did get his shot to be a Hoosier. Ha

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

I want Crean to recruit tough players. Guys with heart and drive and will not back down or let his team lose. The only guy on out team that embodies that is Yogi. We need more Oladipos, moyes, Howard from Stevens days at Butler, Brian cardinal, shabaaz Napier, Russ smith...

I just mentioned a lot of really talented guys, but the commonality is heart, desire and toughness. We haven't had a lot of those kind of guys

* or no *, I want to see heart that doesn't allow complete melt downs where you lose the second half by 20 points repeatedly

 

I believe Hartman is that type of player.  RoJo and Holt will show more as they gain experience. 

[Big Bad Wolf 101]

Crean can still turn this thing around and most of us want him to.

He's got to make the tourney this season. And it would be really helpful to win a game in it. Two would be incredible but just one would really help.

This would take a lot of the pressure off. Not all but the dead man walking won't be as prevalent.

I like the two guys he has coming next season, coupled with DD coming back. But he really needs Yogi to come back. If he does, he may have a pretty darn good team.

He's got to get recruiting going again starting with 2016. If the above happens, u think he's going to have a much easier time.

[HoosierCoop 3,885]

I remember how pumped I was on the movement.

 

then for the longest time...we only had DD and Colin Hartman signed to the following class.  I recall people saying the same thing that we had a weak class coming in.

 

Then it became NV, Luke, DD, TW, Stan, and Colin.  This class has left the movement in the dust in my opinion.

 

There is no crystal ball in recruiting...only faith that players will fit the system and work hard to improve.

[BGleas 7,880]

Noah is definitely a blue chipper, but I didn't include him because I think he's more what SPQ was talking about. Noah is the top 10 guy that's probably more focused on being 1 and done and the NBA than anything else. 

 

Basically top fifty ranked players out of high school. Gotta put Noah in there.

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

Guys, we cant keep saying give it a couple years it will turn around. We are gonna look up 10-15  years from now and nobody is gonna care. We already have a generation of basketball fans in the state that have seen basically nothing from IU. That is why there are so many UK,Duke, UofL and OSU fans in this state. Us old guys start dying off and Assembly Hall will be half empty. When recruiting tanks your program tanks. What we are discussing now has a long term effect on our program. It HAS to be turned around NOW!

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

We have such a HUGE advantage in this state and we need to grab it and take control. Its like I have an oil well on my farm and 90% is going to 4-5 of my neighbors. If Crean or whoever the coach may be can figure out how to make Btown the cool hip destination for our top in state talent he wins. We starve the competition, IU has a self sustaining feeder system of top talent, we return to the national picture and challenge and win championships and the coach can name his price and nobody will care. This is where we need Cuban's help in marketing.

[GloryDays 5,913]

If we land a stong center, we will be alright....it isn't the end of the world. Let's just wait and see what happens at the end of the season.

That's the most reasonable post Ive read in this entire thread.

I think everyone here sees that need and I'm sure the coaching staff does also.By all accounts most of their recruiting efforts are concentrated there.

  All this tit for tat ,love CTC ,hate CTC crap is really getting annoying. This is our coach and squad and that won't change right now no matter how much we bitch

Lets try and enjoy the rest of the season and then things can get sorted out.If recruiting doesn't remedy the problem we can light the torches  again.

Go Hoosiers!

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

Have you been in the restroom every time Collin Hartman has played this year?

I really don't see a lack of heart from this group. I think you are way offbase here.

yogi called his team "soft" and everyone I watch games with complains about how soft we are. Very little fire. You could throw Hartman in with Yogi I suppose but 2 men don't get it done.

Since we start 2 burger boys and another two top 50 players which is more talent than just about anyone we play, why do you suppose then that we get blown out in the second half? Blown out by UofL, blown out by MSU, blown out by OSU, blown out by PU... When you have the talent that we have, fluke losses happen from time to time but to repeatedly get blown out in the 2nd half of games is a lack of toughness and heart. I think you are incredibly off base