College Bball Thread

[Stuhoo 85,640]

11 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I don't believe there are 95 players better than Antonio Reeves.

I believe that there are far more than 99 players who are better than Fletcher Loyer.

With Zach Edey in a constant state of being double and triple teamed, last year he shot 36.7 fg, 32.6 3 pt, and was regularly pulled on the defensive end during late game situations. If I'm being generous? He was a freshman and he may very well improve.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

I believe that there are far more than 99 players who are better than Fletcher Loyer.

With Zach Edey in a constant state of being double and triple teamed, last year he shot 36.7 fg, 32.6 3 pt, and was regularly pulled on the defensive end during late game situations. If I'm being generous? He was a freshman and he may very well improve.

My guess is that Loyer will probably average about 15 and shoot in the 37-40 range from 3. I think he will end the season and be considered a top 15 player. Top 20 at worst. And he's already a Top 25 player in the B1G... though I'm not sure how much that's saying about the B1G.

[Stuhoo 85,640]

9 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

My guess is that Loyer will probably average about 15 and shoot in the 37-40 range from 3. I think he will end the season and be considered a top 15 player. Top 20 at worst. And he's already a Top 25 player in the B1G... though I'm not sure how much that's saying about the B1G.

That is your guess. So far, evidence has not supported that guess.

Loyer compares to Al Durham in size and lots of freshman minutes. Admittedly, Durham shot it a lot better from 2 pt than Loyer as a freshman.

Sure, it's certainly possible, but they don't always get much better.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

16 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

That is your guess. So far, evidence has not supported that guess.

Loyer compares to Al Durham in size and lots of freshman minutes. Admittedly, Durham shot it a lot better from 2 pt than Loyer as a freshman.

Sure, it's certainly possible, but they don't always get much better.

Sure, but I can 100% guarantee you'd be singing the opposite tune if he were wearing an Indiana jersey.

[Stuhoo 85,640]

22 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Sure, but I can 100% guarantee you'd be singing the opposite tune if he were wearing an Indiana jersey.

How about this; I expect CJ Gunn's efficiency from his freshman year to improve, but it may never get him to where he's a plus player in the B1G. Especially if, like Loyer, he doesn't gain some strength for the defensive end and for finishing near the rim.

Gunn's shooting numbers were even worse, but like Loyer the eye test shows a decent outside shooting stroke. Unlike Loyer, at least Gunn has some bounce and quickness.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

How about this; I expect CJ Gunn's efficiency from his freshman year to improve, but it may never get him to where he's a plus player in the B1G. Especially if, like Loyer, he doesn't gain some strength for the defensive end and for finishing near the rim.

Gunn's shooting numbers were even worse, but like Loyer the eye test shows a decent outside shooting stroke. Unlike Loyer, at least Gunn has some bounce and quickness.

You don't have to be athletic in college to be a good enough defender to be on the floor and be a positive player while on the floor. Jordy Hulls is a great example of that. A shooter who wasn't a good defender but was able to be his because of those surrounding him.

[Tasmanian Devil 1,825]

41 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You don't have to be athletic in college to be a good enough defender to be on the floor and be a positive player while on the floor. Jordy Hulls is a great example of that. A shooter who wasn't a good defender but was able to be his because of those surrounding him.

Look who Jordy had around him.

Then look at who Loyer has around him.

Sure, he has Edey down low defensively, which allows him to apply pressure a bit more. But besides Edey, the Boilers had Mason Gilles, Braden Smith, and Ethan Morton. Compare that trio to C-Wat, Vic and Yogi.
 

THAT lack of athleticism is exactly why the Boilers lost to FDU. And Loyer - while a good player - doesn’t have that physical ability. Which is WHY he doesn’t belong in the top 100.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

39 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Look who Jordy had around him.

Then look at who Loyer has around him.

Sure, he has Edey down low defensively, which allows him to apply pressure a bit more. But besides Edey, the Boilers had Mason Gilles, Braden Smith, and Ethan Morton. Compare that trio to C-Wat, Vic and Yogi.
 

THAT lack of athleticism is exactly why the Boilers lost to FDU. And Loyer - while a good player - doesn’t have that physical ability. Which is WHY he doesn’t belong in the top 100.

Can you name a player that's actually better than him though? Probably. But when you're in that area of a Top 100, Loyer could easily be #85 and he could be #115. #115 could be #85. To expect Loyer to not improve is kinda silly and he's probably going to be a top 5 SG in the B1G this coming year. Which again, not sure what that says about the B1G.

[Stuhoo 85,640]

11 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Can you name a player that's actually better than him though? Probably. But when you're in that area of a Top 100, Loyer could easily be #85 and he could be #115. #115 could be #85. To expect Loyer to not improve is kinda silly and he's probably going to be a top 5 SG in the B1G this coming year. Which again, not sure what that says about the B1G.

IU's starting shooting guard is Trey Galloway. I betcha he's not in that top 100.

Compared to FLoyer, Trey Galloway:

• Has a better handle
• Shoots from outside far better
• Shoots 2pt fgs far better
• Has a better assist/turnover ratio
• Is 1,000,000% tougher
• Defends 1,000,000% better
• AND, (most importantly) has way better hair.

And even if Loyer improves, Trey Galloway is very likely to again be better than Loyer this coming year in every one of those aspects.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

19 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

IU's starting shooting guard is Trey Galloway. I betcha he's not in that top 100.

Compared to FLoyer, Trey Galloway:

• Has a better handle
• Shoots from outside far better
• Shoots 2pt fgs far better
• Has a better assist/turnover ratio
• Is 1,000,000% tougher
• Defends 1,000,000% better
• AND, (most importantly) has way better hair.

And even if Loyer improves, Trey Galloway is very likely to again be better than Loyer this coming year in every one of those aspects.

Sure, but you can still project Loyer to be ahead of him. Loyer was the 2md best player on arguably the best team in the nation last season. Yea a lot of that had to do with Maple Yao, but Loyer is going to get a lot of credit for being #2 as a freshman on a team that was that good for the season. Galloway doesn't get that love because he wasnt the 2nd best player on arguably the best team in the nation. And like I said, you can make an argument for Trey Galloway to be Top 100, Top 85. Hell you could probably find a way for Top 75 if you wanted. But Galloway was still the 4th best player on a team that did and didn't underachieve. Loyer was #2 on a team that WAY overachieved. He's going to get way more love. He also has a Top 10 coach and a media darling at that.

[Tasmanian Devil 1,825]

22 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Sure, but you can still project Loyer to be ahead of him. Loyer was the 2md best player on arguably the best team in the nation last season. Yea a lot of that had to do with Maple Yao, but Loyer is going to get a lot of credit for being #2 as a freshman on a team that was that good for the season. Galloway doesn't get that love because he wasnt the 2nd best player on arguably the best team in the nation. And like I said, you can make an argument for Trey Galloway to be Top 100, Top 85. Hell you could probably find a way for Top 75 if you wanted. But Galloway was still the 4th best player on a team that did and didn't underachieve. Loyer was #2 on a team that WAY overachieved. He's going to get way more love. He also has a Top 10 coach and a media darling at that.

Your fallacy is considering Purdue “arguably the best team in the nation.”

That’s not Boiler hate talking, either. Purdue was going to end up losing at some point in the tournament because of the three positions I mentioned earlier -  Morton, Loyer, and Smith. The total lack of athleticism and ability to cover would require another great athlete to go along with Edey down low - and they just don’t have it.

FDU out-quicked them, but it was only a matter of time before somebody would be able to match up enough with Edey down low to be able to exploit the rest of the team.

 

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

16 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Your fallacy is considering Purdue “arguably the best team in the nation.”

That’s not Boiler hate talking, either. Purdue was going to end up losing at some point in the tournament because of the three positions I mentioned earlier -  Morton, Loyer, and Smith. The total lack of athleticism and ability to cover would require another great athlete to go along with Edey down low - and they just don’t have it.

FDU out-quicked them, but it was only a matter of time before somebody would be able to match up enough with Edey down low to be able to exploit the rest of the team.

 

 

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

[hoosierbgh 1,264]

27 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

It's certainly true that the best team doesn't always win in March but what in the world does that have to do with Purdue?

[Stuhoo 85,640]

54 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

1) The “best team” had a really good early season run, played each and every one of the four B1G bottom dwellers twice, faded down the stretch of the B1G regular season when the competition was tougher (didn’t fall apart, but wasn’t nearly as good), had no rotation players miss time due to injuries, and lost to a 16 seed in the tournament.

2) While Braden Smith is short…REALLY SHORT ;) he was also better than Loyer in every statistical category without exception and was probably that team’s second best player. Maybe Gillis was third best.

[Tasmanian Devil 1,825]

53 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

I agree. 1975 Indiana, 1991 UNLV and 2015 Kentucky are great examples of that.

Purdue - under the right circumstances - could have won a title last year. But, again, that roster makeup relies on certain matchups for success. And the deeper they would go in the tournament, the greater chance of have Smith, Loyer and Morton being a matchup liability would have grown substantially. And Purdue never had consistent 3-pt shooting to help overcome the lack of athleticism (32.2% as a team; Smith best at 37%).

Purdue was good - and, if EVERYTHING was clicking, they could be really good. But in their roster makeup and skill level there was just too much to overcome to win a championship.

Possible? Maybe.

Likely? No.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

14 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

I agree. 1975 Indiana, 1991 UNLV and 2015 Kentucky are great examples of that.

Purdue - under the right circumstances - could have won a title last year. But, again, that roster makeup relies on certain matchups for success. And the deeper they would go in the tournament, the greater chance of have Smith, Loyer and Morton being a matchup liability would have grown substantially. And Purdue never had consistent 3-pt shooting to help overcome the lack of athleticism (32.2% as a team; Smith best at 37%).

Purdue was good - and, if EVERYTHING was clicking, they could be really good. But in their roster makeup and skill level there was just too much to overcome to win a championship.

Possible? Maybe.

Likely? No.

You can add the 2002 Duke team to that as well. 2013 Indiana(I don't care what anyone has to say, they were the best team that year).

But Purdue was without a doubt one of the the best teams in the nation and arguably the best. And a lot of that had to do with Edey but Loyer was 2nd best.

[TheWatShot 14,956]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

But Purdue was without a doubt one of the the best teams in the nation and arguably the best. And a lot of that had to do with Edey but Loyer was 2nd best.

Any argument they had for being the best went out the window after we beat them twice and led the entire second half of both games. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,060]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

Any argument they had for being the best went out the window after we beat them twice and led the entire second half of both games. 

Crazy things happen in college basketball. I think we were a good matchup for them compared to some other really good teams. But we didn't have a better season than them, though we really ended up basically where we were projected oddly enough.

[Scotty R 2,860]

56 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

I agree. 1975 Indiana, 1991 UNLV and 2015 Kentucky are great examples of that.

Purdue - under the right circumstances - could have won a title last year. But, again, that roster makeup relies on certain matchups for success. And the deeper they would go in the tournament, the greater chance of have Smith, Loyer and Morton being a matchup liability would have grown substantially. And Purdue never had consistent 3-pt shooting to help overcome the lack of athleticism (32.2% as a team; Smith best at 37%).

Purdue was good - and, if EVERYTHING was clicking, they could be really good. But in their roster makeup and skill level there was just too much to overcome to win a championship.

Possible? Maybe.

Likely? No.

1984 UNC team

[OliviaPope40 7,122]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

IU's starting shooting guard is Trey Galloway. I betcha he's not in that top 100.

Compared to FLoyer, Trey Galloway:

• Has a better handle
• Shoots from outside far better
• Shoots 2pt fgs far better
• Has a better assist/turnover ratio
• Is 1,000,000% tougher
• Defends 1,000,000% better
• AND, (most importantly) has way better hair.

And even if Loyer improves, Trey Galloway is very likely to again be better than Loyer this coming year in every one of those aspects.