Daily MLB Banter

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Some good proposals there; penalize teams for tanking for instance.  Adding the DH to the NL is an idea I like but wouldn't work this close to 2019 because teams wouldn't have time to adjust their rosters.

I like them....but I chuckled at adding the DH this year.  All I could think about was Schwarber with the Cubs.  Then I thought my Reds are set up for it as well.  The rest of the NL teams I have no idea about.

[JSHoosier]

25 minutes ago, Rico said:

I like them....but I chuckled at adding the DH this year.  All I could think about was Schwarber with the Cubs.  Then I thought my Reds are set up for it as well.  The rest of the NL teams I have no idea about.

Depends on their roster construction, really.  I also like the idea of increasing the roster size to 26.

[TheWatShot]

I really hope the NL eventually goes to a DH. It would be awesome hearing all the baseball purists whine about it ruining the game.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

I really hope the NL eventually goes to a DH. It would be awesome hearing all the baseball purists whine about it ruining the game.

I hate this not because of any purity standpoint but I just love the strategy that is involved. 

It adds a whole element to the game. Where do you have the pitcher bat? Do you pull him or let him bat?  

And to be honest I love it when the pitcher does get a hit. I saw a game once where a pitcher won a game 2-1 and the two runs were a 2 run shot by him. 

[JSHoosier]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I hate this not because of any purity standpoint but I just love the strategy that is involved. 

It adds a whole element to the game. Where do you have the pitcher bat? Do you pull him or let him bat?  

And to be honest I love it when the pitcher does get a hit. I saw a game once where a pitcher won a game 2-1 and the two runs were a 2 run shot by him. 

Agree to disagree.  The pitcher is typically the worst hitter in the lineup and batting 9th.  I also don't like giving away outs which is what a bunt is all too often; pitchers tend to be on their own level of terrible as hitters.

[mdn82]

As a Cubs fan with Kyle Schwarber on my team I would love the DH.


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[LamarCheeks]

If you're going to add the DH to the NL, I would think you'd be fine with a 25-player roster. In most cases, after a starting pitcher is taken out of an NL game, you always pinch-hit for the reliever. That usually costs you a position player. If you have a DH, you don't need to waste a position player as a pinch-hitter every inning -- or every other inning. There are many AL games in which a pinch-hitter is never used. 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I hate this not because of any purity standpoint but I just love the strategy that is involved. 

It adds a whole element to the game. Where do you have the pitcher bat? Do you pull him or let him bat?  

And to be honest I love it when the pitcher does get a hit. I saw a game once where a pitcher won a game 2-1 and the two runs were a 2 run shot by him. 

It was just last year.  Reds pitcher Michael Lorenzen hit 3 homers in one week including a slam.  They used him as a pinch hitter quite a bit last year.  Now they are working on making him a positional player as well.  Strategy indeed.  I love it.

[mdn82]

It was just last year.  Reds pitcher Michael Lorenzen hit 3 homers in one week including a slam.  They used him as a pinch hitter quite a bit last year.  Now they are working on making him a positional player as well.  Strategy indeed.  I love it.

Yeah we pitch hit Jake Arrieta when he was with the Cubs. He could rake. We also usually bat our pitcher 8th. There is still some strategy that can be used. But come World Series time the NL is at a disadvantage most years with roster building versus the AL.


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[Rico]

5 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

If you're going to add the DH to the NL, I would think you'd be fine with a 25-player roster. In most cases, after a starting pitcher is taken out of an NL game, you always pinch-hit for the reliever. That usually costs you a position player. If you have a DH, you don't need to waste a position player as a pinch-hitter every inning -- or every other inning. There are many AL games in which a pinch-hitter is never used. 

Conversely, AL teams get burnt when an injury occurs to one of their position players.

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Yeah we pitch hit Jake Arrieta when he was with the Cubs. He could rake. We also usually bat our pitcher 8th. There is still some strategy that can be used. But come World Series time the NL is at a disadvantage most years with roster building versus the AL.


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Exactly.  The AL has built their teams with a DH in mind.  The NL teams have not.  It helped the Cubs against the Tribe because they had Schwarber.  I alluded earlier that the Reds are set up for the DH as well right now.

[LamarCheeks]

I actually think the NL has an advantage in the World Series. NL teams have been playing the same way all year, with the pitcher batting -- which usually is an easy out -- and going through myriad pinch hitters late in games. When you suddenly play by AL rules, it's almost a bonus -- you get an extra hitter, and you don't have to waste a pinch hitter every time you change pitchers. ... Conversely, when Series games are in NL parks, AL teams have to bat a pitcher who hasn't hit all season, and decide if they want to work their DH in the lineup somehow. That will cost you a position player and could weaken your defense by having a guy in the field who hasn't played defense all year. Like the Red Sox in their appearances. You're certainly not gonna bench Big Papi in an NL park, so when he plays first base, you've lost a bat (the normal first baseman) and a good glove man (because Papi doesn't play usually play defense). ... Now, the Sox never lost a Series, so it worked out for them, but I think with the current rules, the NL has the advantage in the Series. That doesn't mean NL teams are always gonna win, however. 

[Rico]

23 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

I actually think the NL has an advantage in the World Series. NL teams have been playing the same way all year, with the pitcher batting -- which usually is an easy out -- and going through myriad pinch hitters late in games. When you suddenly play by AL rules, it's almost a bonus -- you get an extra hitter, and you don't have to waste a pinch hitter every time you change pitchers. ... Conversely, when Series games are in NL parks, AL teams have to bat a pitcher who hasn't hit all season, and decide if they want to work their DH in the lineup somehow. That will cost you a position player and could weaken your defense by having a guy in the field who hasn't played defense all year. Like the Red Sox in their appearances. You're certainly not gonna bench Big Papi in an NL park, so when he plays first base, you've lost a bat (the normal first baseman) and a good glove man (because Papi doesn't play usually play defense). ... Now, the Sox never lost a Series, so it worked out for them, but I think with the current rules, the NL has the advantage in the Series. That doesn't mean NL teams are always gonna win, however. 

Evidently, you have forgotten about inter-league play.  AL pitchers get a chance to bat during the year.  The AL teams also get a chance to play games under NL strategy.

The point being is that the AL teams have a DH on their roster.  NL teams don't.

[Brass Cannon]

10 minutes ago, Rico said:

Evidently, you have forgotten about inter-league play.  AL pitchers get a chance to bat during the year.  The AL teams also get a chance to play games under NL strategy.

The point being is that the AL teams have a DH on their roster.  NL teams don't.

It’s not like they get an extra roster spot though. They still have to pay for him also. It’s a trade off not a complete advantage. 

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It’s not like they get an extra roster spot though. They still have to pay for him also. It’s a trade off not a complete advantage. 

I never said they did , never said they didn't, and never said it was.

[LamarCheeks]

16 minutes ago, Rico said:

Evidently, you have forgotten about inter-league play.  AL pitchers get a chance to bat during the year.  The AL teams also get a chance to play games under NL strategy.

The point being is that the AL teams have a DH on their roster.  NL teams don't.

I did not forget about interleague play, but I appreciate the condescending, snarky tone.

I feel NL teams have the advantage during those as well -- whether in their park or in AL parks. In AL parks, they get a hitter they normally wouldn't have. In NL parks,  AL teams lose a hitter and essentially, lose a much better defensive player (if they chose to play their DH in the field). And when it's time for their pitcher to bat late in games, they have to use a PH -- which they normally don't have to do. 

[mdn82]

I actually think the NL has an advantage in the World Series. NL teams have been playing the same way all year, with the pitcher batting -- which usually is an easy out -- and going through myriad pinch hitters late in games. When you suddenly play by AL rules, it's almost a bonus -- you get an extra hitter, and you don't have to waste a pinch hitter every time you change pitchers. ... Conversely, when Series games are in NL parks, AL teams have to bat a pitcher who hasn't hit all season, and decide if they want to work their DH in the lineup somehow. That will cost you a position player and could weaken your defense by having a guy in the field who hasn't played defense all year. Like the Red Sox in their appearances. You're certainly not gonna bench Big Papi in an NL park, so when he plays first base, you've lost a bat (the normal first baseman) and a good glove man (because Papi doesn't play usually play defense). ... Now, the Sox never lost a Series, so it worked out for them, but I think with the current rules, the NL has the advantage in the Series. That doesn't mean NL teams are always gonna win, however. 

But that’s the thing. Most NL rosters have a bench that is built on defense. Usually the best pitch hitter on an NL squad is batting .250 with an OBP around .325. Because even they aren’t a true hitter. AL teams usually carry one more pitchers. They have also been more successful in the World Series. Those 3-4 games on AL soil there is a huge disadvantage. You brought up Papi as a DH. There is a reason a NL team could never carry someone like him. He is a .300 hitter who was a perennial 40 hr guy. He couldn’t play in the NL.


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[Dalton26]

Phillies get Realmuto.

Not a fan of giving up Alfaro and Sanchez, but getting one of the best if not the best catcher in the league helps soften the blow.

[Brass Cannon]

I really think the DH advantage is overstated at least for the World Series. 5-5 in the last 10 and 11-9 in the last 20. 

I get the disparity in inter league play is there but I think that’s because teams don’t find it worth it to change there behavior for regular season games. Where they adjust accordingly in the post season. 

[mdn82]

I really think the DH advantage is overstated at least for the World Series. 5-5 in the last 10 and 11-9 in the last 20. 
I get the disparity in inter league play is there but I think that’s because teams don’t find it worth it to change there behavior for regular season games. Where they adjust accordingly in the post season. 

It has more to do in the regular season with options. When you build a playoff team at each series you can pick and choose best matchups. The NL has a hit stretch with the Giants and Cards. That is an anomaly through the last 100 years. It was like one of four instances the NL won 3 in a row and 6 of 8. I don’t think anybody is going to change anyone’s mind. But I do feel there if you have the DH you don’t see a lot of double switches, pitch hitters, sacrifices, etc. With the NL you have a lot of that. Also I have an article that shows the AL had outscored the NL 42 years in a row in 2016. If there wasn’t that much difference, that wouldn’t happen. I could see more frequently with the extra batter, but not 42 years in a row.


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