IU Fans sabotaging the coach

[HoosierAloha 30,026]

Just as some posters like to point out the coach Crean shouldn't be compared to coach Williams, coach K, or even coach Calicrimi we shouldn't compare the programs. Yes, every blue blood/basketball has crazy fanatics but not all of those schools are in the same position as IU. These next few years of IU basketball are extremely important. The boat has been raised, holes have been patched and now we are waiting to see what happens. Will the ship sink, maintain buoyancy, or take off and perform like it was built to do. No use to fling rocks at it while those who willing jumped on board to save her still remain.


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[colonel06 1,913]

Coach Crean has done a masterful job taking charge of the Hoosier program when it was at the bottom.  I would say he is quite good at recruiting but has had his share of busts as any coach probably has.

 

Also, he provided the leadership needed to turn the program around and has been the team's biggest cheerleader. Those are among Coach Crean's strengths.  To sustain a program takes a different skill set hence the frustration at his in-game strategy.

 

 Being a good tactician at pushing through in the heat of the battle to close out a winner has proven not to be his strong suit.  I don't think anyone would debate that too vociferously.

 

Bottom line, many organizations bring in different leaders at different times depending on the style and technique of leadership needed.  Some are charged with kicking behind, clean house, attract talent and motivate.  Later after that mission has been accomplished it becomes necessary to adjust the leadership style by bringing a person with a different set of skills.  In this instant, to maintain the program as it is and offer the strategy to close out and win games.

 

This then is the question for the athletic director and others to ponder.  As fans we need to stick together through these tough times.  Many other university fan sights are as just as brutal if you will such as Kentucky yet the players recruited seem to be above all this and continue to sign up year after year for the Wildcats. In our case, it's because its Indiana after all.

 

This same fervor no doubt would have existed during down years as far back as Coach Knight's season on the brink days if social media would have existed then.

[kaylarened 57]

I'm so tired of being on here and everything I read is negative. Sure, we had a pretty terrible season to put it mildly but that doesn't mean we should complain or whine ALL the time. All of the threads on here always turn into something along the lines of blaming Coach Crean or talking about buying out his contract or what went wrong this season. Let it go. This season is over. Sure I'm mad, upset, angry, whatever other words there are about this season. It was hard to sit through. I'm fine with critiquing this season or Coach or whatever but the constant bashing and being angry beyond what is necessary is getting annoying and honestly does nothing but get other people riled up and it's what this forum has turned into lately, and it's wearing me out. JMO


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[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

I'd like to point out that any time Roy WIlliams is perceived as underachieving, you will find 20+ page threads on UNC message boards about replacing him. A pretty heavy bashing was going on earlier this season before UNC made their big run. A lot of posters thought that the team's performance combined with his handling of PJ Hairston was grounds for immediate dismissal.

 

All he's done lately is pull in the #3 class in the nation for 2014.

 

So, no, I'm not buying the assertion that mean message board posters drive away recruits.

[HoosierAloha 30,026]

Colonel

I know this year we were turrble in close games. (4-9 in games decided by 7 points or less IIRC) but IU did win several close, important games in the two previous years. VCU in the tourney, @MSU, @UM to win the conference outright, Temple in the tourney. I would agree that there are some better than others, what characteristic(s) is most important for a coach to win close games?


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[Terrie 37]

I agree 100%!  

[Whoozhers 3,661]

Hmm, I don't know how twitter works but, does a IU recruit know for certain that a Indiana fan is giving him a message to stay away?
It couldn't be coming from say a OSU fan?

[Myrmidon76 614]

If kids were viewing this stuff, I hope they would understand that Indiana and its fans are different. They are different in ways of student-athlete expectations, of coaching expectations, of community committment expectations. Indiana is so much more than just winning basketball games. Success is great, but success without honor to yourself and those you chose to represent is not really success. Crean has been the guy to pull us back from where we were, but everybody knows that while the rebuild was indeed hard, sustainment is the true measure of a coach. This year disappointed me in its rapid decline from the success we enjoyed last year. I mean, my god, we went from winning the Big Ten (the good ole days) to diving headlong back into the end of the Davis years...in the space of 1 season! As much as Crean earned the criticism this year, he has a chance to quiet that talk by keeping the APR scores high, keeping kids from getting arrested or failing drug tests, continuing the outreach he has established with the community, and win with honor. The ball is in his court. If Crean can surround himself with people willing to challenge him and some of his decisions..things will work out, if not....thats not on me or anyone who used good ole common sense and statistics to reach conclusions about him.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Hmm, I don't know how twitter works but, does a IU recruit know for certain that a Indiana fan is giving him a message to stay away?
It couldn't be coming from say a OSU fan?

 

 

Well no, not for sure. But if someone has a whole bunch of OSU stuff he posts about and slams IU and Michigan all the time it's a pretty good give away. If the person has a bunch of pro IU stuff posted that might be your sign.

[colonel06 1,913]

HoosierAloha first I want to say I enjoy the road to Hana when I am in Maui.

 

Wow tough question on how to win close games. Can we say just winning games period?  The parity and other factors most games these days seem to be < 10 points and much of that is padding a 3-4 point game with foul shots in the last minute.

 

I'm certainly no expert in coaching athletes but do know a thing or two about what it takes in other organizations shall we say.

Ostensibly, the curriculum vitae should include basic fundamentals before you get in game time situations that you find yourself  knee high in alligators before you realize you need to drain the swamp!

 

To wit: educate players through communicating ideas and concepts, improve player technical abilities by applying your knowledge and skills, promote fair play, gain the trust of players, parents and fellow staff members, establish and outline realistic goals and objectives ie reduce costly turnovers, establish a conducive environment to continually learn and expect improvement, controlling practice and training in an organized effective and safe manner.  I'm sure Coach does these to the best of his abilities.

 

I think all of us agree that coaching is a daunting task.  Real effective leaders and coaches can truly make that "subtle" difference in winning and living to fight on another day.  From what I can see Coach Crean appears to have many of the successful traits ie.persona, good communication, open-minded, fairness and equality, approachable, organized, positive, responsible and reliable, disciplinarian manager and assists his young men in life planning.  Someway or another however, it just appears that there are road blocks he is facing in developing and maintaining the Hoosier Team ethos.

[coonhounds 8,810]

This is the first year that the negativity will or could impact creans recruiting this article could prove true in the future but for now its bogus

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[welder332 9]

All this garbage about shouldnt do this and shouldnt say that is just idle talk. The bottom line is CTC and Fred Glass should both leave or be fired. CTC is a good PR person but he aint NO IU coach. And I dont think he is all that good of a recruiter. Without mentioning any of the players, look at what he has recruited. CTC takes credit for certain ones like James Blackmon for instance and James annouced he was attending IU because that was where his heart was. And there are others. CTC needs to go, in his interviews he is lost for words and sounds like a broken record. He has lost kids like Trey Lyles, Gary Harris, Jaquan Lyle, Trevon Bluiett and others. Now tell me can he really recruit that well?

[BlueDevil 8,683]

All this garbage about shouldnt do this and shouldnt say that is just idle talk. The bottom line is CTC and Fred Glass should both leave or be fired. CTC is a good PR person but he aint NO IU coach. And I dont think he is all that good of a recruiter. Without mentioning any of the players, look at what he has recruited. CTC takes credit for certain ones like James Blackmon for instance and James annouced he was attending IU because that was where his heart was. And there are others. CTC needs to go, in his interviews he is lost for words and sounds like a broken record. He has lost kids like Trey Lyles, Gary Harris, Jaquan Lyle, Trevon Bluiett and others. Now tell me can he really recruit that well?

I actually like Fred Glass so I dont really see why he should be fired. He might have jumped the gun on coach with the contract but thats a different thread.

[KingPG21 6,583]

All this garbage about shouldnt do this and shouldnt say that is just idle talk. The bottom line is CTC and Fred Glass should both leave or be fired. CTC is a good PR person but he aint NO IU coach. And I dont think he is all that good of a recruiter. Without mentioning any of the players, look at what he has recruited. CTC takes credit for certain ones like James Blackmon for instance and James annouced he was attending IU because that was where his heart was. And there are others. CTC needs to go, in his interviews he is lost for words and sounds like a broken record. He has lost kids like Trey Lyles, Gary Harris, Jaquan Lyle, Trevon Bluiett and others. Now tell me can he really recruit that well?

Your argument seems to be more of he doesn't recruit Indiana all that well. Which I don't completely disagree with, outside of Cody a lot of the recruits that he has had success with while at Indiana have been guys from the East coast, or DMV area. Of course we've yet to see what becomes of the 2012 class which was primarily kids playing their high school ball in Indiana, but other than Yogi they all have been underwhelming thus far. 

[bronkonagurski 894]

I have a hard time taking that article very seriously when the guy actually claims IU fans hampered the recruiting efforts of Mike Davis.  So the fans are the reason Mike didn't recruit the state hard enough?  I recall Rodney Carney stating that he would have loved to play for IU if they had ever recruited him.  Did the fans cause Mike Davis to send the wrong recruiting letter to Mike Conley Jr who just happened to be part of a package deal with a very important Indiana recruit named Greg Oden?  I mean really?  The fans are to blame for Mike not recruiting better?  Let alone coaching up to the max what he actually had to work with.  After the 2002 title game run it was hard to find anything terribly impressive about his coaching.  Remember (not 100% who it was but possibly Bracey Wright) stating after a road loss that Davis only had ONE PLAY for attacking a zone defense? 

 

Message boards are going to be message boards.  Indiana's boards are not unique in terms of criticism when a team is under performing.  Now when people go out on social media and tweet/message things directly to players and/or recruits, that stuff I can do without.  What recruits is Crean missing out on because of fans?  Trey Lyle didn't de-commit due to a message board.  Gary Harris didn't commit to MSU due to a message board.  Sure, I have no problem believing kids read the boards.  But it is naive to act like IU boards are the only boards that get harshly negative when things are rolling downhill. 

 

Overall I think the guy could have made his point a lot more effectively and the way he did so, it makes me laugh a bit more than anything.  YOU DIRTY FANS HOLDING DOWN THESE COACHES.  I mean the stuff that leaked about Mike Woodson, I thought that was distasteful.  But rumors on message boards don't make national news like that.  If the blog writer wants to be upset if the high roller boosters are putting these kinds of rumors out there, that is a separate issue.  But his rant seems to be about everything in general about the fans and on that note, his argument just falls flat to me. 

 

* - footnote - I am not a Crean hater and I don't want him fired.  I still think he can succeed here and win a banner but I also have my concerns and doubts at times. 

[Hwy 1 2,053]

I have a hard time taking that article very seriously when the guy actually claims IU fans hampered the recruiting efforts of Mike Davis.  So the fans are the reason Mike didn't recruit the state hard enough?  I recall Rodney Carney stating that he would have loved to play for IU if they had ever recruited him.  Did the fans cause Mike Davis to send the wrong recruiting letter to Mike Conley Jr who just happened to be part of a package deal with a very important Indiana recruit named Greg Oden?  I mean really?  The fans are to blame for Mike not recruiting better?  Let alone coaching up to the max what he actually had to work with.  After the 2002 title game run it was hard to find anything terribly impressive about his coaching.  Remember (not 100% who it was but possibly Bracey Wright) stating after a road loss that Davis only had ONE PLAY for attacking a zone defense? 

 

Message boards are going to be message boards.  Indiana's boards are not unique in terms of criticism when a team is under performing.  Now when people go out on social media and tweet/message things directly to players and/or recruits, that stuff I can do without.  What recruits is Crean missing out on because of fans?  Trey Lyle didn't de-commit due to a message board.  Gary Harris didn't commit to MSU due to a message board.  Sure, I have no problem believing kids read the boards.  But it is naive to act like IU boards are the only boards that get harshly negative when things are rolling downhill. 

 

Overall I think the guy could have made his point a lot more effectively and the way he did so, it makes me laugh a bit more than anything.  YOU DIRTY FANS HOLDING DOWN THESE COACHES.  I mean the stuff that leaked about Mike Woodson, I thought that was distasteful.  But rumors on message boards don't make national news like that.  If the blog writer wants to be upset if the high roller boosters are putting these kinds of rumors out there, that is a separate issue.  But his rant seems to be about everything in general about the fans and on that note, his argument just falls flat to me. 

 

* - footnote - I am not a Crean hater and I don't want him fired.  I still think he can succeed here and win a banner but I also have my concerns and doubts at times. 

 

 

 

Yeah the article is a little over the top, but not as much as the constant criticism is that goes on around here. Point was made, now if some will just heed it... 

[NapsFinest 26]

I think constructive criticism and thoughtful discussion is a posative thing but when it's nothing more than personal attacks then I think it's counter productive and harmful to the program.  No matter how you feel about Coach Crean, I think you have to admit he's a pretty darn good recruiter.  He might not be the best in-game coach but I don't think he's awful either.  I think the amount of vitriol you see here and on other sites is discouraging.  It can only hurt the program to have people constantly reiterate how terrible Coach is.  In my opinion, if you're a real Hoosier fan you should get on board with the current team and coaches and discuss how we can move forward rather than spending so much energy on bringing everyone down.  It's not very realistic to think that there will be a coaching change in the near future so I don't really see the point in all the fire Tom Crean talk.  

[JaybobHoosier 11,839]

I think constructive criticism and thoughtful discussion is a posative thing but when it's nothing more than personal attacks then I think it's counter productive and harmful to the program.  No matter how you feel about Coach Crean, I think you have to admit he's a pretty darn good recruiter.  He might not be the best in-game coach but I don't think he's awful either.  I think the amount of vitriol you see here and on other sites is discouraging.  It can only hurt the program to have people constantly reiterate how terrible Coach is.  In my opinion, if you're a real Hoosier fan you should get on board with the current team and coaches and discuss how we can move forward rather than spending so much energy on bringing everyone down.  It's not very realistic to think that there will be a coaching change in the near future so I don't really see the point in all the fire Tom Crean talk.  

 

Very well said, and welcome to the site!!!

 

Am I a Crean fan, not really, but constant complaining does absolutely nothing. Makes me look foolish and like I have a personal agenda to get my opinion across. Let's take a breather, and talk about some of our favorite Hoosier memories! This is more funny, but:

 

Clark Kellogg on Oladipo's play at OSU last season. "Victor's game is like a babies bottom. It is smooth, but sometimes EXPLOSIVE!" Lol, gotta love it!

[Ryno6284 2,590]

What about a players mom?   Is this an NCAA violation?

 

Doc Libby @DocLibby -27 mins

@AntLee_3 Hey "Big Guy" Yogi and crew wud love for u to join the IU family!

[Hwy 1 2,053]

What about a players mom?   Is this an NCAA violation?

 

Doc Libby @DocLibby -27 mins

@AntLee_3 Hey "Big Guy" Yogi and crew wud love for u to join the IU family!

 

 

This has already been discussed in another thread today.