IU Fans sabotaging the coach

[Hwy 1 2,053]

 

"Indiana University's men's basketball team is down. And if IU supporters aren't careful, they're going to help it stay down.

I'm no Tom Crean apologist. But most objective observers would admit that Crean is a good recruiter. He was at Marquette and he's done a credible job of recruiting since he arrived in Bloomington. Exhibit A is how quickly he doused the dumpster fire left by Kelvin Sampson and built a national contender on the ashes. Few can sell a program like Crean. He sold it when nobody was buying. And I mean nobody.

Any decent coach knows one of the keys to winning is playing to your strengths. But IU supporters are hampering Crean from doing that.

The faithful this season did a wonderful job of undermining Crean's ability to recruit. They've complained about his every misstep and have been eager to fuel every story, rumor or murmur about his imminent departure.

I don't know if there really is a group of rich IU alum ready to pony up $18 million to buy out Crean's contract as was reported on a number of blogs and news sites last week. Nor do I have any idea if there's any merit to the Mike Woodson-to-IU story that was bouncing through cyberspace, also last week. It sounds crazy, but in this day and age, who knows? Oh, and there's also the rumor that Randy Wittman could be the next IU coach.

To his credit, Athletic Director Fred Glass has stood strong behind Crean. Some IU followers would have you believe that's only because he's waiting for Boston Celtics and former Butler coach Brad Stevens to become available.

I don't know about any of those stories. But I do know this: 17- and 18-year olds pay close attention to the Internet. High school coaches and athletic directors—who heavily influence those youngsters—do, too.

And I know this. IU has seen this all before, with Mike Davis. Was Davis the world's greatest coach? No. Was he in over his head when he replaced Bob Knight in 2000? Perhaps.

But remember this. Davis wouldn't have been on Knight's staff if he hadn't been a solid recruiter. That's what he was brought in to do. In his six years as IU's head coach, Indiana alums did plenty to undermine his ability to get the best talent—particularly homegrown talent—to Bloomington. Of course, Knight did a masterful job of undermining Davis' ability to recruit, but that's another story.

The negativity about Crean is causing some of Indiana's best high school players to flee to places like Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State. No one has been a greater benefactor from IU's civil war than Ohio State Coach Thad Matta and Michigan State Coach Tom Izzo. Ironic, isn't it?

Maybe Crean can't coach. If that's true, it will be born out in time. Glass will figure that out.

But no coach is perfect. Not even Knight. Certainly not Woodson, who has a 305-360 record as an NBA head coach. With any sports operation, there are going to be ups and downs. It's the nature of the game.

Unless the continual backbiting stops among IU supporters, unless the microanalysis at every tiny step sideways or backwards ceases—or at least slows, no IU basketball coach can succeed."

http://www.ibj.com/the-score-2014-03-19-iu-supporters-making-it-tough-for-crean-to-succeed/PARAMS/post/46731

 

 

 

hmmm...

[Rayl 527]

Did this writer discover the Internet yesterday?

 

Every single college program that has fans who actually care has many of those fans who question everything that the coach does. When teams lose, even great teams, fans come out in force to trash the coach and players. Yet, somehow, Indiana is different. Somehow, Indiana fans are sabotaging Crean and preventing him from having success.

 

When do the excuses stop?

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Somehow I expected this response from you.

[KingPG21 6,587]

Did this writer discover the Internet yesterday?

 

Every single college program that has fans who actually care has many of those fans who question everything that the coach does. When teams lose, even great teams, fans come out in force to trash the coach and players. Yet, somehow, Indiana is different. Somehow, Indiana fans are sabotaging Crean and preventing him from having success.

 

When do the excuses stop?

The one thing I disagree with you on, is the recruiting stuff. Tweeting a recruit and telling them to stay away, or in this "fan's" words that the program was a dumpster fire with Crean as the coach, then saying the recruit should away as long as Crean is here. That isn't being a fan, that is sabotaging the program. I've posted this twice in the last month or so, being a fan doesn't mean you have to like every decision that is made. But you are taking it way too far when you take the steps some "fans" have taken because they don't like a decision they made. As far as I'm concerned that isn't being a fan

[Rayl 527]

You expecting the response doesn't make the article any better.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Any kid thats going to stay away from IU because they don't like what they see on a message board is too mentally fragile to get this team where we want it to be anyway. 

 

I think Crean is a good coach and he definitely has forgotten more about basketball than I will ever know. I think he deserves probably two more years at minimum if he can get us back to sweet 16s. But if you can't talk about the future of your program (with or without their coach, which plays a big role in the program) on a message board for IU fans, where else are you supposed to do it? 

 

"The negativity about Crean is causing some of Indiana's best high school players to flee to places like Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State. No one has been a greater benefactor from IU's civil war than Ohio State Coach Thad Matta and Michigan State Coach Tom Izzo. Ironic, isn't it?"

 

This writer is full of it. Does he have anything to back this up? He doesn't support his statements in his article with statistics. 

 

I fully support Coach Crean and hope he gets the team back where it should be. But after missing the NCAA and NIT theres going to be some upset fans. Shouldn't recruits want fans who are mad about missing the tournament??

 

I predict this thread gets locked soon

[Hwy 1 2,053]

You giving your expected response doesn't make the article bad. We can play this game all day. I have time.

[Rayl 527]

The one thing I disagree with you on, is the recruiting stuff. Tweeting a recruit and telling them to stay away, or in this "fan's" words that the program was a dumpster fire with Crean as the coach, then saying the recruit should away as long as Crean is here. That isn't being a fan, that is sabotaging the program. I've posted this twice in the last month or so, being a fan doesn't mean you have to like every decision that is made. But you are taking it way too far when you take the steps some "fans" have taken because they don't like a decision they made. As far as I'm concerned that isn't being a fan

 

I agree. That was over-the-top and should not have been done. But, one guy tweeted a recruit. One guy. No reason to conflate that with any criticism and suggest that it is sabotaging the coach.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

I like the way people can get online anonymously and slam on the coach all day long then get defensive when criticized for it and say the kids are weak if they don't commit due to all the negativity being bashed around.  

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Yea, contacting recruits should be a big no-no. 

 

Hwy 1 and Rayl, I like both of your posts a lot. They're always thought provoking and entertaining... But if you two have a "beef" I think the mods would prefer you do it privately and not in a thread.

 

But what do I know, I just joined. 

[Rayl 527]

You giving your expected response doesn't make the article bad. We can play this game all day. I have time.

 

If you have the time, why not come up with an actual response then? Perhaps, you could seek out evidence to back up any of the writer's claims. For someone who complains about people being negative, you sure do like to fan the flames with flippant responses.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

I like the way people can get online anonymously and slam on the coach all day long then get defensive when criticized for it and say the kids are weak if they don't commit due to all the negativity being bashed around.  

I'm sorry am I not allowed to express frustration over a year INDIANA basketball misses the NIT? At the end of the day it comes back to the coach, this year, Crean could have done better. That doesn't mean I want him fired. My opinion is allowed to change. 

 

And yes, I will firmly say I don't think a kid that bases his decision on message board commentary is a kid worth having at IU.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

If you have the time, why not come up with an actual response then? Perhaps, you could seek out evidence to back up any of the writer's claims. For someone who complains about people being negative, you sure do like to fan the flames with flippant responses.

 

 

So you're saying it's ok for you to anonymously flame the coach but it's not ok for me to anonymously flame the flamers. Great logic, are you sure you're a lawyer? 

[Hwy 1 2,053]

I'm sorry am I not allowed to express frustration over a year INDIANA basketball misses the NIT? At the end of the day it comes back to the coach, this year, Crean could have done better. That doesn't mean I want him fired. My opinion is allowed to change. 

 

And yes, I will firmly say I don't think a kid that bases his decision on message board commentary is a kid worth having at IU.

 

Easy for you to say but how would you feel if you had a kid that was getting interest from IU? 

 

Never said you couldn't express frustration.

 

All I've said is there might be consequences to your words.

[Rayl 527]

So you're saying it's ok for you to anonymously flame the coach but it's not ok for me to anonymously flame the flamers. Great logic, are you sure you're a lawyer? 

 

Huh? Did I say that it wasn't OK for you to do it? Just curious that some who likes to complain about what he perceives as flaming seems to enjoy doing it himself.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Easy for you to say but how would you feel if you had a kid that was getting interest from IU? 

 

Never said you couldn't express frustration.

 

All I've said is there might be consequences to your words.

Fair enough on the expression of frustration

 

But I submit to you, does every fan base not have intense fans? There will be negative or pessimistic people in every fan base. Because there are negative and pessimistic people everywhere. Its a sad fact of life. 

 

If recruits prefer to view criticism on message boards where they will never meet the posters as a bad culture around the program instead of having a passionate fan base, well, I'm not sure what to say to that. Personally I would prefer they judge the culture of the program based on: atmosphere of the locker room/relationships of players with their coaches/students at the university... IE people they will eventually see and interact with in real life. 

 

I just don't think that "highly touted 2015 recruit" should drop Indiana based on fans being, well... fanatics

[GnarlyNormEllenberger 1,452]

Fans need to keep their emotions in check, for sure. You either want IU to win, or you don't. But the internet is a perfect platform for people to say things they'd never say/do in person, so you have fans being very disrespectful. And when you have a program that is as popular as IU Basketball, those "fans" embarrass themselves and the fanbase as a whole.

 

As far as the article goes... I don't know. I guess I have a hard time believing the "sabotaging" fans don't exist at Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Michigan State, etc... so if the players are that worried about themselves or teammates or coaches being heavily scrutinized, big-time college ball probably isn't for them. I really don't see the fans being much different at any of those schools. That doesn't excuse the actions done by some ridiculous "fans," but it simply acknowledges the sad state of the world we are in at the moment.

 

I think the author may have given him more recruiting accolades than maybe Crean deserves, in my opinion. I mean, he's brought in talent, for sure. But we had one point guard last season, i.e. one main ball-handler. That was it. We also had just one guy who could regularly play in the post. That was it. (Yes, I loved Fischer, but Crean wasn't playing him much at all to begin with and I guess I'm a little skeptical believing that he would've earned significantly more minutes as the season progressed.) I mean, we weren't deep at two very important positions.

 

Anyway, recruiting is just part of the game. At least that's what I've always thought. I would think that's why many are upset. But it's just my opinion.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Huh? Did I say that it wasn't OK for you to do it? Just curious that some who likes to complain about what he perceives as flaming seems to enjoy doing it himself.

 

 

I think it's curious that guys who enjoy flaming the coach so much get upset when they get a little back. Did you ever stop to think about that when spewing away? I'm guessing not. 

[JSHoosier 20,618]

Any kid thats going to stay away from IU because they don't like what they see on a message board is too mentally fragile to get this team where we want it to be anyway. 

 

I think Crean is a good coach and he definitely has forgotten more about basketball than I will ever know. I think he deserves probably two more years at minimum if he can get us back to sweet 16s. But if you can't talk about the future of your program (with or without their coach, which plays a big role in the program) on a message board for IU fans, where else are you supposed to do it? 

 

"The negativity about Crean is causing some of Indiana's best high school players to flee to places like Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State. No one has been a greater benefactor from IU's civil war than Ohio State Coach Thad Matta and Michigan State Coach Tom Izzo. Ironic, isn't it?"

 

This writer is full of it. Does he have anything to back this up? He doesn't support his statements in his article with statistics. 

 

I fully support Coach Crean and hope he gets the team back where it should be. But after missing the NCAA and NIT theres going to be some upset fans. Shouldn't recruits want fans who are mad about missing the tournament??

 

I predict this thread gets locked soon

Even one of the biggest sunshine pumpers/Tom Crean homers on another board has said that if Crean can't get to a Final Four by the time Yogi is a senior he needs to go.  That is two years from now.  The Sweet 16 isn't much, it puts us at Wisconsin's level.  None of us should be happy with that.  He's not one of the highest paid coaches in college hoops for Sweet 16s, he's paid that to take us to greatness.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Fair enough on the expression of frustration

 

But I submit to you, does every fan base not have intense fans? There will be negative or pessimistic people in every fan base. Because there are negative and pessimistic people everywhere. Its a sad fact of life. 

 

If recruits prefer to view criticism on message boards where they will never meet the posters as a bad culture around the program instead of having a passionate fan base, well, I'm not sure what to say to that. Personally I would prefer they judge the culture of the program based on: atmosphere of the locker room/relationships of players with their coaches/students at the university... IE people they will eventually see and interact with in real life. 

 

I just don't think that "highly touted 2015 recruit" should drop Indiana based on fans being, well... fanatics

 

 

I don't either but I bet it happens a lot more than you might think it does.