Tom Crean Poll

[Rayl 527]

Do you consider Boeheim a great coach?

Absolutely. He went to 3 sweet 16s in his first 4 years too. It didn't take him very long to build his program, certainly not the 11 to 16 total years that we are supposed to be giving Crean now.

[BlueDevil 8,701]

[quote name="Rayl" post="45561" timestamp="1394246272"]Absolutely. He went to 3 sweet 16s in his first 4 years too. It didn't take him very long to build his program, certainly not the 11 to 16 total years that we are supposed to be giving Crean now.[/quote]

Boeheim has only been to 4 final fours in 38 years though.

[HystericalHoosier 17]

I HIGHLY doubt that if the coach changed right now the success would come as quickly as some of you think it would. As some have pointed out, you would want the next big coach. Well, that means they don't have the background in much, so recruiting would be hard, meaning classes wouldnt be what the coach might want, and therefore wouldn't have as big of expectations. Sounds like a never-ending cyle until the program finds stability to me...

[mdn82 25,510]

Absolutely. He went to 3 sweet 16s in his first 4 years too. It didn't take him very long to build his program, certainly not the 11 to 16 total years that we are supposed to be giving Crean now.

It took him over 20 years to win his first title.  If by our standards of excellence are to be met, he would have never won here.  Sweet 16s are not good enough.  If he goes to a Sweet 16 next year, that would essentially be 3 in his first 4 true years after building from scratch at IU.  Do we wait the 20+ for him to win a title?  Probably not.  

[mdn82 25,510]

Boeheim has only been to 4 final fours in 38 years though.

 

I am not a fan of Boeheim either.  As an IU fan, I don't think any coach that would take 20+ years to win a title would last here, unless they made a few Final Fours.  Sweet 16s won't cut it long term.  That should be the floor, with a surprise early exit every so often.  That is if we are a top team.  Depends on feelings of the boosters and AD.  

[wirenuts 1,056]

It's kind of a double edged sword to be spoiled as iu fans by Bobby Knight. Love him or hate him the man was one of the greatest coaches of all time, at any sport. Later on I think he fell behind the times as far as recruiting and it took a toll. Another poster brought this up in another thread. It's going to be really difficult to have a coach come in and completely please iu fans. I'm not a huge Crean fan, but this team has a ton of young players and it doesn't seem like a single one of them can hit from long range. Bad offensive sets or not, that's a tough thing to win games without good shooters. I'm curious to see how next year goes.


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[mdn82 25,510]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8612449/indiana-hoosiers-sign-tom-crean-contract-extension

 

"The buyout, Glass said, would cost $8 million over the next three years, then drops to $1 million in Year 4 and drops again to $500,000 over the final four years of the deal. School officials said additional contract details will be announce when the deal is formally signed."

 

That was in 2012.  I am assuming since it was signed early in 2012-13 season (November), it was retroactive to the beginning of that season.  Next season is the 3rd season on that contract.  I would say it would be safe to say if the contract made it so the buyout drops to $1 million after next season, and he struggles we may have action.  Problem is you look at the quotes throughout that article, and Glass securely locked Crean in as his guy even though he did not hire him.  I know some would want him gone if we struggled again, but I would be shocked.  Just read the article.  It would be hard for him to justify a lot of actions and things he said if he fired him 2.5 seasons after what he said and did.  Sometimes you see an AD jump on the bandwagon at an arms distance, to give himself an out if things go south.  He did not do that.  Also, $8 million is not going to keep boosters at this University away from getting a coach they think can win if it is available.  For those of you clamoring for Brad Stevens.  You better hope Crean lasts about 2 more years.  If he goes after next year, that only gives Stevens 2 years at Boston.  At that point, he still wouldn't be feeling any heat.  

[JSHoosier 20,321]

It took him over 20 years to win his first title.  If by our standards of excellence are to be met, he would have never won here.  Sweet 16s are not good enough.  If he goes to a Sweet 16 next year, that would essentially be 3 in his first 4 true years after building from scratch at IU.  Do we wait the 20+ for him to win a title?  Probably not.  

I still contend that 3 of the last 4 teams have underachieved.  I believe year 3 was capable of more than just 12 wins, year 4 was an over achievement, last year and this year both underachieved.  I agree that Sweet 16s aren't good enough, that puts us at Wisconsin level and none of us should be okay with that.

 

It's kind of a double edged sword to be spoiled as iu fans by Bobby Knight. Love him or hate him the man was one of the greatest coaches of all time, at any sport. Later on I think he fell behind the times as far as recruiting and it took a toll. Another poster brought this up in another thread. It's going to be really difficult to have a coach come in and completely please iu fans. I'm not a huge Crean fan, but this team has a ton of young players and it doesn't seem like a single one of them can hit from long range. Bad offensive sets or not, that's a tough thing to win games without good shooters. I'm curious to see how next year goes.


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I can't use youth and lack of shooters to excuse Crean of this year's performance though.  Both of those are on him because it's part of recruiting.  The classes haven't been balanced (leading to the youth), and he knows shooters are crucial to his system but he went 4 years without landing one (then pretty much ignored one of the best scorers in the state after they decommitted from UCLA in Trevon Bluiett).  It's why I say he's a good, not great, recruiter.

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8612449/indiana-hoosiers-sign-tom-crean-contract-extension

 

"The buyout, Glass said, would cost $8 million over the next three years, then drops to $1 million in Year 4 and drops again to $500,000 over the final four years of the deal. School officials said additional contract details will be announce when the deal is formally signed."

 

That was in 2012.  I am assuming since it was signed early in 2012-13 season (November), it was retroactive to the beginning of that season.  Next season is the 3rd season on that contract.  I would say it would be safe to say if the contract made it so the buyout drops to $1 million after next season, and he struggles we may have action.  Problem is you look at the quotes throughout that article, and Glass securely locked Crean in as his guy even though he did not hire him.  I know some would want him gone if we struggled again, but I would be shocked.  Just read the article.  It would be hard for him to justify a lot of actions and things he said if he fired him 2.5 seasons after what he said and did.  Sometimes you see an AD jump on the bandwagon at an arms distance, to give himself an out if things go south.  He did not do that.  Also, $8 million is not going to keep boosters at this University away from getting a coach they think can win if it is available.  For those of you clamoring for Brad Stevens.  You better hope Crean lasts about 2 more years.  If he goes after next year, that only gives Stevens 2 years at Boston.  At that point, he still wouldn't be feeling any heat.  

I've seen that statement on the extension several times, and and the figures there don't add up. I at one time seen a actual pdf of the contract, and posted a link to a article about his buyout that had radically different figures than that. Found it:  http://latenighthoops.com/crean-buyout/#.UwEQUmJdVA0

 

The information here jives with what I read in the contract. Now I did not read the entire contract, and maybe there is some legalese that changes that (I'm not a lawyer, and not up on all the lawyer tricks), but the clause for termination without cause and the buyout was pretty straightforward. Not sure why there is a disparity between Glass's comments and this, but something just don't add up.

 

EDIT: I suspect I just seen it there. 8 mil is what CTC owes if he chooses to leave early, dropping to 1 mil after 3 years. IU owes 14 mil right now, dropping to 12 mil next year.

[Woodsonshump 304]

Absolutely. He went to 3 sweet 16s in his first 4 years too. It didn't take him very long to build his program, certainly not the 11 to 16 total years that we are supposed to be giving Crean now.

 

Gee, Tom Crean went to 2 sweet 16's in his first 5 years here.  Your point?  I haven't seen anyone reference 11-16 years of a rebuild. Please direct me toward that particular reference, if you will.  The man's contract is for 10 years.  You're all sideways over one down season so far.  One.  Uno.  Plus, your down season that you're all bent about is still a winning season.  Right now, all you're doing is helping to fuel this McDonald's generation that wants it all yesterday and doesn't think they have to wait on it.  Absolutely horrible logic.  Go ask John Calipari how his McDonald's basketball approach is working out for him.  Yeah, he got one title, but you can chalk that up to a perfect storm of the right prima donna players that came together at the right time and managed to get along.  You see how last season and this season is going for them.  In fact, Florida is further ruining their season by 19 as I type! 

 

I'll say this much.  I firmly believe the product of the product you're seeing on McCracken Court this season is the result of things going on behind the scenes and off the court, not because of what you're seeing on the court or the man pacing the sidelines.  Something is amiss behind the scenes.  Chemistry, attitudes, whatever, we simply don't know.  But something is amiss behind the scenes.

[KingPG21 6,587]

Gee, Tom Crean went to 2 sweet 16's in his first 5 years here.  Your point?  I haven't seen anyone reference 11-16 years of a rebuild. Please direct me toward that particular reference, if you will.  The man's contract is for 10 years.  You're all sideways over one down season so far.  One.  Uno.  Plus, your down season that you're all bent about is still a winning season.  Right now, all you're doing is helping to fuel this McDonald's generation that wants it all yesterday and doesn't think they have to wait on it.  Absolutely horrible logic.  Go ask John Calipari how his McDonald's basketball approach is working out for him.  Yeah, he got one title, but you can chalk that up to a perfect storm of the right prima donna players that came together at the right time and managed to get along.  You see how last season and this season is going for them.  In fact, Florida is further ruining their season by 19 as I type! 

 

I'll say this much.  I firmly believe the product of the product you're seeing on McCracken Court this season is the result of things going on behind the scenes and off the court, not because of what you're seeing on the court or the man pacing the sidelines.  Something is amiss behind the scenes.  Chemistry, attitudes, whatever, we simply don't know.  But something is amiss behind the scenes.

The 11-16 years comes from saying it will take 5-10 more years for us to be a consistent title contender. He is currently in his 6th season here, 5-10 plus 6 gets you 11-16th year of coaching the program. Instead of just grabbing the number that you are referencing, that was by me, and looked at what I was replying to, you should have been able to get the context of where the 11-16th year of coaching came from. 

 

Edit: Also didn't say 11-16 year rebuild. Said it shouldn't take our program 11-16 years to be a consistent title contender

[Woodsonshump 304]

The 11-16 years comes from saying it will take 5-10 more years for us to be a consistent title contender. He is currently in his 6th season here, 5-10 plus 6 gets you 11-16th year of coaching the program. Instead of just grabbing the number that you are referencing, that was by me, and looked at what I was replying to, you should have been able to get the context of where the 11-16th year of coaching came from. 

 

Edit: Also didn't say 11-16 year rebuild. Said it shouldn't take our program 11-16 years to be a consistent title contender

I never quoted you.

[trailrunner 49]

[quote name="IU Hoosier41" post="45423" timestamp="1394217897"]JSHoosier - question for you.

You point out Crean's track record of mediocre, and you clearly want a new coach that has been to elite 8's, final 4's and possibly won a championship. Who fits all of your criteria that would come to Indiana right now? Disregard Crean's buyout etc. If the change happened today, who would you want to fill his shoes?


I'm not sold on Crean, but I do think he is the best option for Indiana. I don't think we could get anyone better, with better records, better history to come to Indiana. This isn't just about wanting to fire a coach and move on. Who would do better at IU?


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I would make a run at Billy Donovan. Imagine what he could do at a hoops school and with Hoosier HS talent to recruit yearly.


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[JSHoosier 20,321]

I would make a run at Billy Donovan. Imagine what he could do at a hoops school and with Hoosier HS talent to recruit yearly.


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I think Donovan would be a good hire, but I'd have a hard time seeing him leave Florida.  Good program in a power conference, and his only consistent competition in hoops is UK and even they've struggled the last couple years.

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

I never quoted you.

No, you didn't but you said you hadn't seen anyone reference 11-16 years of a rebuild. You would have to read back through the thread to find the reference. It was part of a earlier post.

[Hovadipo 56,550]

We could have Matt Painter...


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[LIHoosier 26,473]

We could have Matt Painter...


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At least he takes blame for his mistakes... ;)

 

http://btn.com/2014/03/09/matt-painter-on-2014-season-its-my-fault/?cmp=user_post

[Hovadipo 56,550]

[quote name="LIHoosier" post="46127" timestamp="1394395769"]At least he takes blame for his mistakes... ;)

[url="http://btn.com/2014/03/09/matt-painter-on-2014-season-its-my-fault/?cmp=user_post"]http://btn.com/2014/03/09/matt-painter-on-2014-season-its-my-fault/?cmp=user_post[/url][/quote]

That was brutal. Almost feel bad for the guy..


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[mdn82 25,510]

In Painter's defense, he recruited better players.  He just coaches at PU.  So, in many cases he had to settle for lesser options than he was after.  That in itself should get him a lifetime contract.  

[OliviaPope40 6,586]

In Painter's defense, he recruited better players.  He just coaches at PU.  So, in many cases he had to settle for lesser options than he was after.  That in itself should get him a lifetime contract.  

He could have taken the Missouri job if he wanted to.