Soon to RETIRE Coach Woodson Thread

[iu eyedoc 2,504]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

That's a great question.

I'll try some guesstimate math based on $6 million total NIL to parse out to 13 players: 

• Ballo - $1.1 million (Goodman reporting that the price for IU was less than others were offering).

Well, no other coach in college basketball was likely offering to play the game from the  inside out.

Ballo's mom didn't raise no dummy.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,144]

40 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

That's a great question.

I'll try some guesstimate math based on $6 million total NIL to parse out to 13 players: 

• Ballo - $1.1 million (Goodman reporting that the price for IU was less than others were offering).
• Reneau, Mgbkao; $650k each
• Rice, Carlyle; $600k each
• Galloway, Tucker; $400k each
• Cupps, Leal, $250k each
• Newton; $200k

That's a total of $5,100,000 with three spots open. That means we are under the $6,000,000 NIL even if we pay real money to two and leave the 13th spot open. Malone seems reasonably likely and he would be a low cost NIL signee. 

We good.

That’s a good attempt at it. 
 

This is going to need to be annual thing to stay competitive. 

[Hornsby 2,762]

That’s a good attempt at it. 
 
This is going to need to be annual thing to stay competitive. 

Ballo got 500k more than Malik? Wow.

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[IUCrazy2 2,575]

3 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

That’s a good attempt at it. 
 

This is going to need to be annual thing to stay competitive. 

Which is kind of insane.  Speaking for myself, I don't see ever donating to the NIL.

[Stuhoo 83,287]

Just now, Hornsby said:

Ballo got 500k more than Malik? Wow.

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That is purely and completely a guess.

[Hornsby 2,762]

Which is kind of insane.  Speaking for myself, I don't see ever donating to the NIL.

And it's only going to he worse imo. I won't ever donate either. If they were getting paid nominal amounts I would but not when they are being paid like professionals. Lower level programs simply don't be able to compete in the long run.

 

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[IUc2016 7,121]

8 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

And it's only going to he worse imo. I won't ever donate either. If they were getting paid nominal amounts I would but not when they are being paid like professionals.

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I am curious as to why you thought, college basketball players who are quite literally on TV and advertised as much if not more than most celebrities, would be paid a nominal amount for their NIL?

[Hornsby 2,762]

I am curious as to why you thought, college basketball players who are quite literally on TV and advertised as much if not more than most celebrities, would be paid a nominal amount for the NIL?

Because it's college. They get free tuition and we're always seen as amateurs before. But panderas box is opened my guess is some will soon make more than nba players. I don't like the nba so thats why I always liked college ball. That's my opinion but I know some love nil.

 

I mean you might as well start paying high school players as well the schools make ticket money off the players.

 

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[IUc2016 7,121]

4 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

Because it's college. They get free tuition and we're always seen as amateurs before. But panderas box is opened my guess is some will soon make than nba players. I don't like the nba so thats why I always liked college ball. That's my opinion but I know some love nil.

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I don't think it has anything to do with loving NIL or not. It was bizarre that they could not make money off their OWN NAMES. That doesn't make them professional or amateur (which was always a silly argument) it just makes them like everyone else. 

[str8baller 5,928]

1 minute ago, Hornsby said:

Because it's college. They get free tuition and we're always seen as amateurs before. But panderas box is opened my guess is some will soon make than nba players. I don't like the nba so thats why I always liked college ball. That's my opinion but I know some love nil.

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Logically what you’re saying doesn’t make any more sense than requiring Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg to disgorge billions in profits because they started their businesses while in college.  
 

But I get it as a fan. The problem  is there’s so much money now, even compared to something like the 80s or 90s that it has to go somewhere. Personally I think it is nutty to let all these dopey coaches and ADs get rich while the kids get nothing.  If the NCAA really ever cared about amateurism—and they didn’t—they would’ve maintained that coaches and administrators couldn’t be paid over a certain limit.  
 

It probably ends with the schools paying the players. Or maybe multi year NIL deals. That’ll help return some stability at least. I feel bad for the small schools the most. This hasobviously helped IU and maybe saved Woodys job. 

[AZ Hoosier 8,420]

9 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I don't think it has anything to do with loving NIL or not. It was bizarre that they could not make money off their OWN NAMES. That doesn't make them professional or amateur which was always a silly argument, it just makes them like everyone else. 

But "this" isn't "that". Doing personal appearances or sponsorship deals is one thing. There is nothing about that with the NIL deal where schools are paying players $1M to attend their school and play a sport in exchange for that money. What we now have is professional athletes disguised as amateurs.

At least the pro sports leagues have some sort of salary cap in an attempt to bring parity. There is no such "cap" on NIL spending, so it's truly a free-for-all. And if the NCAA (or some other authority) were to implement a cap, it would just return us to the days of under-the-table payments. 

Sadly, it is what it is and it is completely out of control.

[IUc2016 7,121]

2 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

But "this" isn't "that". Doing personal appearances or sponsorship deals is one thing. There is nothing about that with the NIL deal where schools are paying players $1m to attend their school and play a sport in exchange for that money. What we now have is professional athletes disguised as amateurs.

At least the pro sports leagues have some sort of salary cap in an attempt to bring parity. There is no such "cap" on NIL spending, so it's truly a free-for-all. And if the NCAA (or some other authority) were to implement a cap, it would just return us to the days of under-the-table payments. 

Sadly, it is what it is and it is completely out of control.

Says who? 

NIL is nothing more than someone getting money for their own personal worth on the market. That is exactly what this is.

[str8baller 5,928]

4 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

What we now have is professional athletes disguised as amateurs.

You’ve always had that. The difference is just where the money went.    
 

As far as salary cap I’m agnostic. It probably helps IU to not have one. Lots of sports leagues don’t have one. 

[Home Jersey 10,297]

1 minute ago, AZ Hoosier said:

But "this" isn't "that". Doing personal appearances or sponsorship deals is one thing.

Yep, this is where the discrepancy is IMO for why people feel so differently about "NIL."

Name, Image, and Likeness deals like the ones you described where you'd see a guest appearance, sponsorship/commercial, etc. 

There are also collectives, which provide direct cash payments as I understand it. That is where it's less about marketability/being paid for your own name and likeness, and more about being semi-pro sports with smaller budgets and no salary cap. 

As a concept, players getting paid is fine. They basically always have been. The devil is in the detail... and the collectives are problematic for sustainable success, not to mention the long-term feasibility of smaller schools being competitive/eventually, even fielding teams. Seems like the inevitable conclusion is revenue sharing/unionization, collective bargaining, etc. 

[TTT 1,052]

I am all for NIL and outrageous coaching salaries…..  If coaches and players build their own stadiums/Gyms, pay all expenses related to their sport and their lives. (and that is a huge itemized list that they are gifted…..from laundry and janitorial and landscaping services to travel, training, eating, upkeep of facilities, and other tangible and non tangible things and opportunities.

If in January you have a soso 12 win 8 loss record….will it be well there are many new faces, man…we just have to get these guys to gel…well man….got to keep working to make the tournament.  We don’t expect NIT bids.

Hard to make a connections for any team to a roster mostly of one and two year players unless they are highly, very highly successful both, on and off court.

 

[IUc2016 7,121]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Yep, this is where the discrepancy is IMO for why people feel so differently about "NIL."

Name, Image, and Likeness deals like the ones you described where you'd see a guest appearance, sponsorship/commercial, etc. 

There are also collectives, which provide direct cash payments as I understand it. That is where it's less about marketability/being paid for your own name and likeness, and more about being semi-pro sports with smaller budgets and no salary cap. 

As a concept, players getting paid is fine. They basically always have been. The devil is in the detail... and the collectives are problematic for sustainable success, not to mention the long-term feasibility of smaller schools being competitive/eventually, even fielding teams. Seems like the inevitable conclusion is revenue sharing/unionization, collective bargaining, etc. 

But if people feel that is all name image and likeness is Idk what to tell them.

[Home Jersey 10,297]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

But if people feel that is all name image and likeness is Idk what to tell them.

I mean we're getting pretty deep into semantics at this point... part of what makes a players NIL valuable is how good they are.

But they're usually mostly compensated in the form of a collective's cash payment, not a company's marketing budget for example. Which IMO is why some people have grievances with "NIL" pay... it's mostly collective payments which are more similar to a company payroll. When people think of NIL, they think about players who have made CBB nationally relevant being able to reap the rewards for their success via their NIL deals with local and national organizations, which is a good deal for everybody.

Instead, we see universities basically paying players for performance. Collectives can bring with them a world of political headaches (maybe that's part of the offseason drama we've seen play out at IU). Adding a 3rd party to your organization/program is always troublesome IMO. Therefore I hope we get to a point where the collectives go away, universities manage funds in house like a company payroll with a salary cap, and we go back to basketball being the primary focus with NIL as a nice bonus for doing well. 

[IUc2016 7,121]

7 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I mean we're getting pretty deep into semantics at this point... part of what makes a players NIL valuable is how good they are.

But they're usually mostly compensated in the form of a collective's cash payment, not a company's marketing budget for example. Which IMO is why some people have grievances with "NIL" pay... it's mostly collective payments which are more similar to a company payroll. When people think of NIL, they think about players who have made CBB nationally relevant being able to reap the rewards for their success via their NIL deals with local and national organizations, which is a good deal for everybody.

Instead, we see universities basically paying players for performance. Collectives can bring with them a world of political headaches (maybe that's part of the offseason drama we've seen play out at IU). Adding a 3rd party to your organization/program is always troublesome IMO. Therefore I hope we get to a point where the collectives go away, universities manage funds in house like a company payroll with a salary cap, and we go back to basketball being the primary focus with NIL as a nice bonus for doing well. 

I am not talking about where the money comes from and if that is problematic. That is not how this conversation got started.

Zach Edey was covered relentlessly this season by EVERYONE in and out of college basketball. To think he would make a nominal amount for his name, is silly. Regardless of who pays him or how he is paid. That's really the only point I was trying to make.

[Home Jersey 10,297]

2 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I am not talking about where the money comes from and if that is problematic. That is not how this conversation got started.

Zach Edey was covered relentlessly this season by EVERYONE in and out of college basketball. To think he would make a nominal amount for his name, is silly. Regardless of who pays him or how he is paid.

Not making an argument one way or the other... Just unpacking why I think some people have grievances with "NIL" / collectives in their current form.

[Hoosierfan2017 22,360]

My issue is with the combination of the transfer portal and NIL. Pick one or the other. The current climate where everyone’s a free agent at all times every year sucks. It has already ruined bowl season.