Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[RaceToTheTop 24,229]

15 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

Lose by one, or lose by 100. Which columns do they both end up in. Nothing else matters. Just win Baby.

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Unfortunately that's not the case in NCAA tourney selection.  Point spreads make a difference in efficiency ratings.

[Golfman25 4,831]

2 hours ago, Schreckbagger said:

Did I say he could? I've given a few documented statistics that everyone has an opinion on, but those are still facts.

Who gives a crap about your opinion. Yell it as loud as you want, who cares. I'm happy you can say what you want, though.

Onward.....


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You're clearly implying because of his stats as a player means he can coach.  Like most, he was an ok player.  That's it.  He wasn't a star.  He wasn't a franchise type player.  Get over yourself.   

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 hour ago, DChoosier said:

You make sh!te up and then use that as your argument. NO ONE said that Woodson was a GREAT player in the NBA. The initial post regarding his playing career called Woodson a journeyman, which without question was dismissive of his playing days, which to me implies a 5-6 point a game guy. To my surprise (I didn’t follow the NBA when he played) he averaged 14 points a game and scored nearly 11,000 points which is a far cry from being great but to last that long in the NBA, while scoring 14 a game, is a very solid career and certainly not one to be bashed.

I get calling out his college coaching, roster construction etc but to dismiss/denigrate everything else…..Just brutal (but it’s the fire Woodson thread so carry on ).

Did you not just define "journeyman?"  Scoring 5-6 pts/gm makes you a bench warmer.  

[AH1971 1,096]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

You're clearly implying because of his stats as a player means he can coach.  Like most, he was an ok player.  That's it.  He wasn't a star.  He wasn't a franchise type player.  Get over yourself.   

So if you aren’t a franchise type player you’re simply mediocre/ok? Am I reading that right? And anything basketball related doesn’t carry weight? 

[HoosierAloha 30,006]

Third best win % doesn’t seem accurate but it wouldn’t surprise me we have some stoked about that while we’ve been dogshit for the better part of two decades and had one coach for nearly three decades of that. We’re attempting to polish that turd as best we can. Along with that outstanding winning % he’s tied for last in Big Ten regular season championships and national titles.

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

[Golfman25 4,831]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So if you aren’t a franchise type player you’re simply mediocre/ok? Am I reading that right? And anything basketball related doesn’t carry weight? 

Yes.  You become an interchangeable piece.  You guys are really splitting hairs.  None if if matters, as it has nothing to do with coaching.  Can the guy coach or not?   So far, he's mediocre at best at that job.  

[AH1971 1,096]

3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Did you not just define "journeyman?"  Scoring 5-6 pts/gm makes you a bench warmer.  

There’s been a little over 13 million points scored in ~132,000 career NBA games. That 103 ppg team average/15 man roster means the “average” NBA player averages 6.8 points a game. Woodson doubled that. Find something else to argue about, this ain’t it.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/how-many-points-have-been-scored-in-nba-history

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

There’s been a little over 13 million points scored in ~132,000 career NBA games. That 103 ppg team average/15 man roster means the “average” NBA player averages 6.8 points a game. Woodson doubled that. Find something else to argue about, this ain’t it.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/how-many-points-have-been-scored-in-nba-history

Yeah.  You have way too much time on your hands.  

[AH1971 1,096]

4 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Yeah.  You have way too much time on your hands.  

Google search yielded that link in less than a second.

Accessible calculator on any standard smart phone and being able to compute simple math another 10-15 seconds. 
 

I spent more time replying to this post now that I think about it and even more time trying to rationalize your initial post. Come to think about it, you’re not worth the time.

[AH1971 1,096]

9 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

He’s been the coach for 3 seasons lol. What’s the acceptable benchmark through 3 seasons in order to be retained? Don’t answer that because whatever it is, is a major reason why so many people laugh at this fan base.

[HoosierAloha 30,006]

Is journeyman considered a derogatory term in sports? Always understood it as a role player that was traded/moved a lot. Weird to be offended by such a term given to someone who played in the NBA 30+ years ago. I now realize why his playing career matters because his offense is stuck there.

[RaceToTheTop 24,229]

13 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Is journeyman considered a derogatory term in sports? Always understood it as a role player that was traded/moved a lot. Weird to be offended by such a term given to someone who played in the NBA 30+ years ago. I now realize why his playing career matters because his offense is stuck there.

Webster’s dictionary says a journeyman is a worker or sports player who is reliable but not outstanding.

there are a hell of a lot worse things to be called than reliable.  

[HoosierAloha 30,006]

I thought we were stating facts. The last 60 years included a hall of famer for about 30 years, another hall of famer who won a few nattys, a great coach who broke rules, and then a bunch of mediocre coaches with a few good seasons over two+ decades. Woody is the best mediocre coach we’ve had? He doesn’t have it. He’s a mediocre coach who can have a solid season but not a coach who is going to overachieve with the talent he has. (This has been shown) I’d expect better than mediocre from IU basketball but if others think he’s doing his job that’s fine by me. I understand trying to be optimistic because we really haven’t had much to cheer about for a hot minute.


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[HoosierAloha 30,006]

Glad to know my understanding of the word was close. I believe it’d be just after the all-star and solid role player category for me if I’m grouping NBA players.

[Schreckbagger 556]

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

 

.741 - Kelvin Sampson

.735 - Bob Knight

.677 - Branch McCracken

.612 - Mike Woodson

.592 - Mike Davis

.552 - Tom Crean

.536 - Archie Miller

.520 - Lou Watson

.190 - Jerry Oliver

 

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

I left McCraken out of his last year purposefully. If you wanna include McCrackens record for 64-65 and go back his entire IU career, that's fine, but you gotta include Harry Good as a whole 43-46 (.517) then too. And you completely skipped 7 Dakish coached games (.429).  

So, CMW is 4th best out 11 coaches in over 80 years.

 

I probably should have stated 59 yrs instead of 60 yrs in my post, but rounding was easier

 

And finally, the 2 guys that were fired for "not winning enough" that you speak of, had 5 and 8 years on the job before being let go.

 

Hope that helps.....

 

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[Hornsby 1,637]

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

Imagine hiring a guy like Sampson now with no rules and unlimited nil. Yes I know he is old I mean a younger sampson. Be crazy what we could do.

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[Golfman25 4,831]

7 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Google search yielded that link in less than a second.

Accessible calculator on any standard smart phone and being able to compute simple math another 10-15 seconds. 
 

I spent more time replying to this post now that I think about it and even more time trying to rationalize your initial post. Come to think about it, you’re not worth the time.

I rest my case.  

[Golfman25 4,831]

7 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I thought we were stating facts. The last 60 years included a hall of famer for about 30 years, another hall of famer who won a few nattys, a great coach who broke rules, and then a bunch of mediocre coaches with a few good seasons over two+ decades. Woody is the best mediocre coach we’ve had? He doesn’t have it. He’s a mediocre coach who can have a solid season but not a coach who is going to overachieve with the talent he has. (This has been shown) I’d expect better than mediocre from IU basketball but if others think he’s doing his job that’s fine by me. I understand trying to be optimistic because we really haven’t had much to cheer about for a hot minute.


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It’s such a weak attempt to justify Mike Woodson.  Sure it’s a “fact.”  But facts need to be taken into context.  And in context, Mike Woodson’s results have been uninspiring.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,317]

8 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

Winning percentage aside, I think Crean was still a better coach. Since Knight id rank em...

 

1. Sampson

2. Crean

3. Mike Woodson and Mike Davis

4. Archie Miller

[IUFAN1976 2,389]

11 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This is wild behavior here today.

Woodson did B- work year one.
Woodson did B work year two.
Woodson did D+ work year three

By moderate Indiana standards.

Roster building flaws, substitution pattern flaws, scouting flaws, on court offense/defense flaws.

Players seem to like him. He has been given a bag to build a winning roster. He seems to have done a good job at that, so far.

The end season behavior taking a stance against the fans ratchets up the pressure on him. He doesn’t seem intimidated by the pressure but he needs an A- or better season this year considering all the factors involved.


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Exactly this!  Well said!