Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Hornsby 1,651]

How close are Buckner and Woodson, really? It's not like they were teammates, and I have a hard time believing Buckner is satisfied with where the program is right now. I mean, the guy played for the last team to go undefeated and didn't lose a Big Ten game for 2 years. You'd think losing three straight at home to Northwestern would be end of times stuff for someone like him. 

He also only won 13 games as an NBA coach.

 

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[Hoosierfan2017 20,876]

34 minutes ago, realTomCrean said:

Culture fits. Agree that any extended conf playing time from the bolded would be not great.. Think you need Leal, Sparks, Cupps for culture - they work hard and are positive

I don’t disagree that culture guys are important. I just don’t know that we need to have 3 of them all on scholarship. If your 1-11 guys are good enough then it’s probably fine. But, well, Woodson’s roster isn’t even good enough 1-5 lol. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,546]

2 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Does the $1m raise hurt us much?  At the time, we had improved year 1 to year 2 and were seemingly on the "verge" of getting a big recruiting class for 2024.  You could make a case that the $1m increase was to signal any external noise that they had confidence in Woody and perhaps help seal the deal with recruits.  As it seems with every momentum we have had since RMK left, it quickly died out. But at least it was not an extension ala Crean.

Does $1M make that much difference? Depends on who is asking...

from the university's POV, I'd say yeah, it could. It send a dangerous and premature message, and it wastes $1M that could/should have made a difference elsewhere.

from Woodson's POV is validates his actions up to that point - despite the fact that he hadn't really done much. In enabled him to dig in deeper to the position that he held in his mind that he was, in fact, delivering the goods - mostly with players recruited by others... and leaving the cupboard bare for the following (third and present) season.

from the fan's POV, it absolutely sent the wrong message - that Woodson was "the guy" ... and definitely pi$$ed some of them off in the process.

$1M to silence the noise isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when it is simply covering up the obvious flaws, it's deceitful, it's malfeasance and it's just not a good thing to do... and it warns the critics to beware of the shoe that is about to drop.

And by your logic, because the mishandling of the Woodson situation did not rise to the level of the mishandling of the Crean coaching era, it's no big deal? You are wrong here. Big time.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,876]

16 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Does the $1m raise hurt us much?  At the time, we had improved year 1 to year 2 and were seemingly on the "verge" of getting a big recruiting class for 2024.  You could make a case that the $1m increase was to signal any external noise that they had confidence in Woody and perhaps help seal the deal with recruits.  As it seems with every momentum we have had since RMK left, it quickly died out. But at least it was not an extension ala Crean.

It was unnecessary, arguably unwarranted, and (I think) raised the buyout figure in the event of a disaster like this season. No one was coming to hire Woodson away from us. His first two seasons were better than Archie’s tenure but nothing to get overly excited about. I just really don’t think a nearly 25% raise was deserved at the time. It was a classic IU overreaction to positive developments. 

[IUrocker 2,145]

I wonder if we have any players on the roster who at this point would only want to return if Woodson was gone, and if so, whether they would cause Dolson to try to get the move done if he knows we can keep key pieces together with a new coach…..or if it’s quite the opposite and we have players who won’t want to come back if Woodson is let go. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,546]

12 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

He also only won 13 games as an NBA coach.

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So this is the "You're a bad coach" "Takes one to know one" routine?

[TTT 894]

Not just IU but in most circumstances consequences are a result of Networking relationships.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,876]

2 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

I wonder if we have any players on the roster who at this point would only want to return if Woodson was gone, and if so, whether they would cause Dolson to try to get the move done if he knows we can keep key pieces together with a new coach…..or if it’s quite the opposite and we have players who won’t want to come back if Woodson is let go. 

I doubt it. None of them really give any signs that they get particularly upset about losing. Woodson doesn’t strike me as a particularly demanding coach. They get paid a lot of money in NIL. They’re probably pretty content with their lives right now. 

[JF87 1,413]

2 hours ago, realTomCrean said:

If he stays another year, here is how to appease the fan base: 

Retain: Reneau, MgTaco, Gallo, Cupps, Leal, Sparks 

Bring in: Mcneeley, Queen, the best PG available (ex. Mack-Harvard, Thornton-OSU, McDaniel-Mich), the best SG available (Ex. Clary-PSU), a 7Ft back up C, and 2 Gr. Srs 

The names have to be notable and the money has to flow like never before. 
 

Best Case: Woodson retires

This is a good roster and would be competitive.    There are a few issues imo. 

1. My guess is that Mgbako is going pro.  That was the intent coming out of high school and I would speculate that the family saw nothing this year that would make them think there's any benefit to returning to IU (other than NIL).  
2. If Mgbako does return, his family want him to play the 3 and start.  That would mean that Mc Neely and Mgbako both vying for playing time at small forward.  
3. Can McNeely play defense as a freshman?  We'll see? 
4. If Queen comes it will be with a guarantee to start which means a lot of minutes with Reneau and Queen on the floor at the same time.  So, we'll see a lot of 2 bigs offense again.  
5. We know that Reneau is just an average defender.  Can Queen guard Big Ten players as a freshman?  
6. Thornton and McDaniel play on worse teams than us.  They may not be as good as we think they are.  

[LamarCheeks 18,036]

This probably has been covered and if so, I apologize. But I just got around to reading some of Woody's comments from this morning. He's essentially saying he was blindsided by JHS leaving. I was under the impression that pretty much everybody had JHS pegged as a one-and-doner -- even before he played a game at IU. 

How could he have not seen that as well? 

[8bucks 6,347]

11 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Does $1M make that much difference? Depends on who is asking...

from the university's POV, I'd say yeah, it could. It send a dangerous and premature message, and it wastes $1M that could/should have made a difference elsewhere.

from Woodson's POV is validates his actions up to that point - despite the fact that he hadn't really done much. In enabled him to dig in deeper to the position that he held in his mind that he was, in fact, delivering the good - mostly with players recruited by others... and leaving the cupboard bare for the following (third and present) season.

from the fan's POV, it absolutely sent the wrong message - that Woodson was "the guy" ... and definitely pi$$ed some of them off in the process.

$1M to silence the noise isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when it is simply covering up the obvious flaws, it's deceitful, it's malfeasance and it's just not a good thing to do... and it warns the critics to beware of the shoe that is about to drop.

And by your logic, because the mishandling of the Woodson situation did not rise to the level of the mishandling of the Crean coaching era, it's no big deal? You are wrong here. Big time.

Understood but I don't recall that many people suggesting he needed to be fired at that time.  So I would not say it was covering up a problem but perhaps trusting too much in a style change post TJD and landing the big recruits.  As that did not happen, then this season went south those problems became more obvious.  

The not a big deal part relates more to not limiting our ability to make a change.

[8bucks 6,347]

6 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

I wonder if we have any players on the roster who at this point would only want to return if Woodson was gone, and if so, whether they would cause Dolson to try to get the move done if he knows we can keep key pieces together with a new coach…..or if it’s quite the opposite and we have players who won’t want to come back if Woodson is let go. 

I am curious about this too.  Hopefully after @chris sneaks into SD's office to get a picture of his list of candidates he can host a players only outing to get the scoop.

[IUrocker 2,145]

4 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

This probably has been covered and if so, I apologize. But I just got around to reading some of Woody's comments from yesterday. He's essentially saying he was blindsided by JHS leaving. I was under the impression that pretty much everybody had JHS pegged as a one-and-doner -- even before he played a game at IU. 

How could he have not seen that as well? 

Yeah I see that as another excuse in my opinion. I just don’t see any way he thought JHS wasn’t gonna be gone after one year. Like you said, even before he played a game for IU it seemed pretty known that the plan for him was to be gone. We spent a lot of time during the season talking about how we wish he wasn’t going to be. Shoot, I was blindsided by him saying he thought JHS was still gonna be around…

[tyappleg 2,964]

5 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

This probably has been covered and if so, I apologize. But I just got around to reading some of Woody's comments from yesterday. He's essentially saying he was blindsided by JHS leaving. I was under the impression that pretty much everybody had JHS pegged as a one-and-doner -- even before he played a game at IU. 

How could he have not seen that as well? 

Ehh, in Woodson's defense, I think the general consensus at the time of the commit was he was more of a 2 year player.  However, not having a plan B ready and being blindsided by a top 20 recruit going pro after 1 year should never happen. 

[TTT 894]

I wonder if coach K at Duke in 1981 and 1982 got this much negative feedback among fans and those involved???  (no internet back then)

[JF87 1,413]

7 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

I wonder if we have any players on the roster who at this point would only want to return if Woodson was gone, and if so, whether they would cause Dolson to try to get the move done if he knows we can keep key pieces together with a new coach…..or if it’s quite the opposite and we have players who won’t want to come back if Woodson is let go. 

My guess is both.  My concern is with our inability to sign high school players.  Getting just 1 or 2 high school players every year is not the way to build a sustainable program.  They may be highly rated, but they may also leave after 1 or 2 years. We need to build the program with 3 and 4 year guys.  That's how you build a program and culture.  You can build a team with transfers, but not a program.  I've heard from a head coach that it takes until February until players get to know each other.      

[AZ Hoosier 6,546]

2 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Understood but I don't recall that many people suggesting he needed to be fired at that time.  So I would not say it was covering up a problem but perhaps trusting too much in a style change post TJD and landing the big recruits.  As that did not happen, then this season went south those problems became more obvious.  

The not a big deal part relates more to not limiting our ability to make a change.

I doubt that is was a choice between the two extremes: firing him or giving him a $1M bump. The key here was recruiting. As an NBA coach, even a mediocre one, he never dipped his toe in the recruiting pool. He had no basis from which to even start. That was why Dolson gave him Motta and Fife... but Woodson thought (thinks) that he knew better, and tried to do it on his own. He failed. He is a failure as a college coach by any measuring stick you choose.

The fact that he recruited bigs is one thing... but as a has-been NBA coach, surely he had to know that without guards and perimiter shooters, the bigs alone would not be much benefit...

The "not a big deal part" limiting the ability to make changes - where is that? Haven't seen much change... still "gotta get back to work", still "gotta get over the hump", still "it's a young team", even at the end of the season...

[Hornsby 1,651]

So this is the "You're a bad coach" "Takes one to know one" routine?

Just stating quinn maye have won 40 years ago but given he is a good awful coach doesn't give me much hope that he thinks Woodson is not up to the task.

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[mamasa 15,143]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/my-two-cents-when-is-the-appropriate-ending-for-the-mike-woodson-era-at-indiana/ar-BB1iATtn?ocid=windirect&cvid=eb1dd9d396ea4608b4c4d17ed164e167&ei=16

 

Good article, refers to JHS leaving as LamarCheeks referenced

[Class of '66 Old Fart 83,903]

13 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

This probably has been covered and if so, I apologize. But I just got around to reading some of Woody's comments from this morning. He's essentially saying he was blindsided by JHS leaving. I was under the impression that pretty much everybody had JHS pegged as a one-and-doner -- even before he played a game at IU. 

How could he have not seen that as well? 

Revisionist history on Woody's part.  He's not going to accept any responsibility whatsoever for the fiasco we have.