Anthony Leal vs Penn State - Saturday, 02.03.24 @ Noon on FS1

[OliviaPope40 6,376]

18 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

But for every Victor Oladipo we got a Tim Priller, and for every Will Sheehey we got a Bawa Muniru.

Yet somehow Priller became a fan favorite without even playing.

[AZ Hoosier 6,468]

1 minute ago, OliviaPope40 said:

Yet somehow Priller became a fan favorite without even playing.

True, but talent-wise, he had no reason to be here... mid-major role player at best...

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,754]

Yet somehow Priller became a fan favorite without even playing.

Love and a bit of mockery. He was our mascot. 11-13 on the roster aren’t generally too helpful and he was the pinnacle of all that and was a good dude about it all.


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[Whoozhers 3,645]

So, in times like these what happens first? The coach loses the fans or team first?

Or does he lose both simultaneously?

[IUFAN1976 2,746]

1 hour ago, AZ Hoosier said:

But for every Victor Oladipo we got a Tim Priller, and for every Will Sheehey we got a Bawa Muniru.

Yes, but I said he was good at that, not great!  He also found Dwayne Wade!

[OliviaPope40 6,376]

17 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Yes, but I said he was good at that, not great!  He also found Dwayne Wade!

Wade had a heck of an NBA career.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,754]

The list of guards they went after was way longer than guys that were highly coveted. Happy to compile it again. Yes, some were but not all were just top level. That is not the reason why they didn’t get guards.
They didn’t because guys transferring want minutes, etc. There is a false belief that these guys transfer to “win.” That is down the list. Money, playing time, development.
it was a combo of X and Trey being seen as large minutes takers by most every recruit they talked to. Combined with Woody not being willing to pull a Wiscy and bench and Essigian for a better option. He was too loyal to his guys and believed in them too much.  That right there is it. That caused all this.
I agree with you that they could have gone after a lower level guy but …. Those guys still are transferring for a larger role. They want to start somewhere. So now you are down to bringing in pretty low level guard who doenst move the needle. Even the guys you suggested when to a CF wanted a larger roll. 
 
They also learned you can’t make your offers up front or you just get outbid. They learned some good old fashioned sales philosophies.

Recruit the guys we’re winning is #1. That is probably the biggest problem with where we are as a program. Everyone has their agendas and if things go well, then maybe we win. Recruit the ones that won’t accept losing, and guess what, with the right leadership and enough intangibles they will start winning.


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[IUFAN1976 2,746]

5 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Recruit the guys we’re winning is #1. That is probably the biggest problem with where we are as a program. Everyone has their agendas and if things go well, then maybe we win. Recruit the ones that won’t accept losing, and guess what, with the right leadership and enough intangibles they will start winning.


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This I agree with.  If everyone had their own agendas, Turdue wouldn’t have kept all of their roster.  Guys have to accept their roles, and that is what it takes to win, ask everyone on Turdue’s team.  If you ask the players on iU’s team what their role was, they all wouldn’t actually know.  If you ask Reneau, Ware and XJ who the go to guy is in clutch time, they would all say themselves.  When recruiting transfers, there are no defined roles until the season starts, especially from the returning players, everyone has to earn their minutes and that’s how you persuade them to come to your school.  XJ and Trey should have to earn their minutes and not guarantee them starting positions just because they were returning, CMW was stupid for doing that.

[Golfman25 4,957]

16 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

This I agree with.  If everyone had their own agendas, Turdue wouldn’t have kept all of their roster.  Guys have to accept their roles, and that is what it takes to win, ask everyone on Turdue’s team.  If you ask the players on iU’s team what their role was, they all wouldn’t actually know.  If you ask Reneau, Ware and XJ who the go to guy is in clutch time, they would all say themselves.  When recruiting transfers, there are no defined roles until the season starts, especially from the returning players, everyone has to earn their minutes and that’s how you persuade them to come to your school.  XJ and Trey should have to earn their minutes and not guarantee them starting positions just because they were returning, CMW was stupid for doing that.

Do we know he did that?  Or did he say "everyone has to earn their minutes" even the incoming transferee?  How do we know that the transferees were not guaranteed minutes so they went with some coach who lied to them?  That Timberlake at Kansas fits the bill.  Went from 30+ min at Towson to barely seeing the floor (11 min) at Kansas.  Why would he do that?  

[AZ Hoosier 6,468]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

Didn’t say you couldn’t. 

Where I am vs some of you is I believe it will change. That it is a combo of minor things that led to this big problem. Would love to rationally discuss that but we are at the anger stage. 

I also believe pulling the plug is the worst possible thing we could do by far. If, if there was a Brad Stevens, Jay Wright etc. sure. Taking another gamble might officially break this program if it doesn’t work.

Much better odds that Woody course corrects, unleashes all this NIL we claim to have and loads up. Plenty of examples of programs bringing in multiple transfers into starting lineup and it working out great. 

First, the program is already broken. Just pull the plug already.

Second, Woodson cannot/will not course correct. He's too arrogant and his ego is too large to allow for him to admit anything he thinks or does is wrong.

Finally, Woodson is the cancer on this team. His post game press conferences are full of his arrogance, his hubris, his "not going to throw his players under the bus" until he does (in the next sentence), he takes credit for the wins and any positive outcomes, but blames others (players) for the losses and shortcomings.

[IUFAN1976 2,746]

31 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Do we know he did that?  Or did he say "everyone has to earn their minutes" even the incoming transferee?  How do we know that the transferees were not guaranteed minutes so they went with some coach who lied to them?  That Timberlake at Kansas fits the bill.  Went from 30+ min at Towson to barely seeing the floor (11 min) at Kansas.  Why would he do that?  

Because he’s a players coach and he tries to stay loyal to his current players coach and the fact that other recruits didn’t want to come here because they knew they would have to share minutes with Trey and X

[JSHoosier 19,741]

3 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Because he’s a players coach and he tries to stay loyal to his current players coach and the fact that other recruits didn’t want to come here because they knew they would have to share minutes with Trey and X

Galloway had 1 good shooting year and Johnson is too inconsistent to be relied on even when healthy, the staff should've seen that. I like Galloway and I was saying I'd rather he come off the bench as 6th man.

[Hornsby 1,651]

First, the program is already broken. Just pull the plug already.
Second, Woodson cannot/will not course correct. He's too arrogant and his ego is too large to allow for him to admit anything he thinks or does is wrong.
Finally, Woodson is the cancer on this team. His post game press conferences are full of his arrogance, his hubris, his "not going to throw his players under the bus" until he does (in the next sentence), he takes credit for the wins and any positive outcomes, but blames others (players) for the losses and shortcomings.

His arrogance will not allow him to change period. Nothing will change at all next year if they keep him. It will be a disaster.

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[Hornsby 1,651]

Didn’t say you couldn’t. 
Where I am vs some of you is I believe it will change. That it is a combo of minor things that led to this big problem. Would love to rationally discuss that but we are at the anger stage. 
I also believe pulling the plug is the worst possible thing we could do by far. If, if there was a Brad Stevens, Jay Wright etc. sure. Taking another gamble might officially break this program if it doesn’t work.
Much better odds that Woody course corrects, unleashes all this NIL we claim to have and loads up. Plenty of examples of programs bringing in multiple transfers into starting lineup and it working out great. 

The program is already broken.

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[WayneFleekHoosier 47,754]

First, the program is already broken. Just pull the plug already.

Second, Woodson cannot/will not course correct. He's too arrogant and his ego is too large to allow for him to admit anything he thinks or does is wrong.

Finally, Woodson is the cancer on this team. His post game press conferences are full of his arrogance, his hubris, his "not going to throw his players under the bus" until he does (in the next sentence), he takes credit for the wins and any positive outcomes, but blames others (players) for the losses and shortcomings.

 

Woodson is too old to reinvent the wheel. And Indiana isn’t the place to be struggling to find your identity or an identity that works.

 

And if he changes his system to a system he doesn’t know frontwards and backwards is he the guy to lead that new system?

 

We all know he needs to change. But it’s hard to change and even if he does it likely means he’s not the best guy to be running the show

 

 

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[IUFAN1976 2,746]

35 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Galloway had 1 good shooting year and Johnson is too inconsistent to be relied on even when healthy, the staff should've seen that. I like Galloway and I was saying I'd rather he come off the bench as 6th man.

Exactly!  I think Woodson was relying on Galloway repeating or at least having a respectable year shooting the ball and X being in CBB for years, Woodson figured his experience is irreplaceable.  They were the most experienced players in the basketball program and he was counting on that experience for them to bring consistency on both sides of the ball, but that backfired because they are our most inconsistent players that play significant minutes 

[IUFAN1976 2,746]

9 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 

Woodson is too old to reinvent the wheel. And Indiana isn’t the place to be struggling to find your identity or an identity that works.

 

And if he changes his system to a system he doesn’t know frontwards and backwards is he the guy to lead that new system?

 

We all know he needs to change. But it’s hard to change and even if he does it likely means he’s not the best guy to be running the show

 

 

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This is spot on

[AZ Hoosier 6,468]

5 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Exactly!  I think Woodson was relying on Galloway repeating or at least having a respectable year shooting the ball and X being in CBB for years, Woodson figured his experience is irreplaceable.  They were the most experienced players in the basketball program and he was counting on that experience for them to bring consistency on both sides of the ball, but that backfired because they are our most inconsistent players that play significant minutes 

First of all, with 11 years experience between them, you'd think that there would be some leadership skills, as well.

And given XJs tendency to be hurt, how could Woodson expect to get any quality and consistency out of him... and with Gunn and Cupps as the contingency plan, how can he leave a scholarship open? Pure incompetence.

[HoosierTrav 7,689]

2 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Didn’t say you couldn’t. 

Where I am vs some of you is I believe it will change. That it is a combo of minor things that led to this big problem. Would love to rationally discuss that but we are at the anger stage. 

I also believe pulling the plug is the worst possible thing we could do by far. If, if there was a Brad Stevens, Jay Wright etc. sure. Taking another gamble might officially break this program if it doesn’t work.

Much better odds that Woody course corrects, unleashes all this NIL we claim to have and loads up. Plenty of examples of programs bringing in multiple transfers into starting lineup and it working out great. 

Sure there are examples of other programs doing this but not this staff. We are likely going to need to replace at least 6 players. These are going to have to be home runs from a scout and understanding what fire our system. I’m not sure our coach or staff even knows what the system/identity is. Bc Woody says one thing and his actions say otherwise. 
 

i believe it’s an insurmountable challenge for this staff, based off of what they’ve shown us thus far. None of this even covers the fact that every other program we are going toe to toe with is going to have extremely compelling negative recruiting material to use against us. Dead last in 3pt attempts…. Ranked 100 in the nation in KenPom and have a 100+ ranking in both offense and defense. 
 

I’m not saying we can’t have a better season than this year but that’s not going to be easy enough. I don’t see any way we are competing for a B1G title next year. There is more of a chance that next season is an epic disaster than next year we contend. So many things have to change drastically and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for fans to not have faith in that happening. 

 

[IUFAN1976 2,746]

23 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

First of all, with 11 years experience between them, you'd think that there would be some leadership skills, as well.

And given XJs tendency to be hurt, how could Woodson expect to get any quality and consistency out of him... and with Gunn and Cupps as the contingency plan, how can he leave a scholarship open? Pure incompetence.

Of course it is but Woodson’s ego will never ever let him admit it!