IUBB @ Michigan State - Tuesday, 2/21/23 @ 9:00 on ESPN

[HoosierHoopster 7,689]

25 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Didn't he out his name in tbe portal 

You mean when basically the whole team did bc of coaching change? That means nothing 

[Honkyman 1,670]

15 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I'm still wondering why he's not on the floor. If anything, he's easily our best swing passer. Ball never sticks

I agree. Leal is a much more reliable player than CJ Gunn who is shooting a dreadful 8.3% from 3-point range. Gunn should stop shooting threes until he figures out what is wrong with his shot.

[HoosierHoopster 7,689]

2 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

I don’t think he is certain to start next year at all.  

Nothing’s certain, but he started consistently while Race was out and after the first 2-3 played strong. How the rest of the year goes and summer matters, but as of now he’d start with Malik

[Honkyman 1,670]

8 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Lord help us if he becomes a starter, he can’t even produce consistently in the role he is in, which leads me to believe he has never accepted his role

Geronimo played consistently when he was starting while Race Thompson was out. He played well coming off the bench last year but has struggled coming off the bench this year. "Never accepted his role" is pure conjecture.

[HoosierHoopster 7,689]

6 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

If he isn’t a guaranteed lottery pick, he’ll be back!

I personally hope you’re right. As of now he’s supposedly (cant put much weight in mocks) around 20. Individual team workouts and feedback will tell him what he needs to know, and he’ll make the call. I don’t think he’s ready, too much inconsistency, but he has the full package for the NBA, I’d think either this year or next he’ll go.

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

2 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I personally hope you’re right. As of now he’s supposedly (cant put much weight in mocks) around 20. Individual team workouts and feedback will tell him what he needs to know, and he’ll make the call. I don’t think he’s ready, too much inconsistency, but he has the full package for the NBA, I’d think either this year or next he’ll go.

I 100% agree and if he isn’t a lottery pick there is always that chance he would start out in the G League and he’ll make more $$ at IU with NIL

[IU - Kaulie 1,943]

3 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

Banks really hasn’t been good. Last night was an outlier. There is a reason he has played limited minutes. He’s not ready. He can’t shoot and struggles to finish. Always lost on defense.

We must be watching a different game.  He has looked good in every game he has been in.  He has proven in games he can shoot and drive and finish.  He is pretty good on defense and usually in the right spots.  The tape last night shows that.  He is always around the action and the ball seems to find him.  He competes and plays hard.  The reason he isn’t playing more is because he is a freshman that doesn’t have a five star next to his name and CMW rolls with upperclassmen.

If their is anyone who is lost on defense and shouldn’t be playing it’s Geronimo.  He is always out of position and is a foul and turnover machine.  He isn’t playing much and really shouldn’t be playing at all.

 

[HoosierHoopster 7,689]

2 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I 100% agree and if he isn’t a lottery pick there is always that chance he would start out in the G League and he’ll make more $$ at IU with NIL

There are also major differences in situation and likelihood of success in which team drafts you. Get an organization like Spurs, Celtics (depending also on who they already have at guard/depth), and chances are much better than a Sacto etc. Organization matters, another factor for the player to strongly consider 

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

I know this is a Michigan State thread but I can’t stand the unbalanced schedules that the B10 has created because of the extra teams and playing 20 games.  IU hasn’t had a week off since B10 resumed and to throw salt into our tired wound, Purdue almost gets an entire week off before our game against them.  So we are extremely unlucky to have to play a well rested Purdue team.  Their last game was a blowout against OSU in which their main players rested for the biggest part of the 2nd half

[IUFAN1976 4,320]

3 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

We must be watching a different game.  He has looked good in every game he has been in.  He has proven in games he can shoot and drive and finish.  He is pretty good on defense and usually in the right spots.  The tape last night shows that.  He is always around the action and the ball seems to find him.  He competes and plays hard.  The reason he isn’t playing more is because he is a freshman that doesn’t have a five star next to his name and CMW rolls with upperclassmen.

If their is anyone who is lost on defense and shouldn’t be playing it’s Geronimo.  He is always out of position and is a foul and turnover machine.  He isn’t playing much and really shouldn’t be playing at all.

 

I concur with both Banks and Geronimo 

[str8baller 6,584]

12 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

He has proven in games he can shoot and drive and finish.

In which games?  
 

He’s long, athletic and scrappy. He cleans up  some buckets around the rim. That’s not nothing, and I like his upside. He’ll be a good player.  I don’t recall a game where’s he’s shown any shooting prowess, off the dribble or spot up.   

[str8baller 6,584]

4 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Same with the 12-13 team.

That team would’ve been better off with Woodson. Crean has no idea how to use post players and outside of hulls most of those players could barely get a post entry to Zeller. Agree on the ‘16 team, though. 

[coonhounds 10,187]

You're fed up with the narrative that the team is mentally or physically tired? Fair enough. But also to be fair?

• The players aren't saying that.
• The coaches sure as hell aren't saying that.

If some fan watching intently says it on a message board ? That doesn't make it true. It also may be true. 
But you know what the ultimate, real evidence is? The objective evidence:

1. In four years of Archie we had one (woulda been) barely-in tournament appearance. 
2. In year one of Woody we made the tournament, barely.
3. In year two we are a tournament lock and very likely a six seed or better. 

That Bill Parcells quote applies, "You are what your record says you are." And for the small-ish sample of the Mike Woodson era so far, our record is trending good, good, better, better. 

I am sorry I should have specified that I was talking about posters on this board selling the notion were always tired at the end of season. Davis used the excuse that he practiced them to hard so may had truth to it. Crean also had problems it seemed. I think Archie we were just tired all the time lol. I don't think their tired imo.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[IU - Kaulie 1,943]

32 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

Definitely watching a different game. He has not proven he can shoot and finish. That’s just false. He’s shooting around 40% in big ten play and almost every shot is from 5 feet and in. He plays hard but the team drops off when he is on the court…hence the plus/minus. 

It’s hard to throw stats around in such a small sample size.  The truth is he has finished.  I would bet he is well over 50% for the season but again that’s meaningless.  The games I have been to he gifts us a real lift and spark.  I don’t see the drop off.  His biggest attribute right now is that the ball finds him.  He puts himself in position with his motor and how hard he plays.  If he were given more minutes I think he could score a lot of ‘junk points’ and that’s fine for right now as a freshman.  I’m impressed with him and think he’s a keeper.  I’m not saying he should be playing a ton but he should be getting the minutes Geronimo is getting.

[Scotty R 2,883]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Pretty pessimistic view of Coach Woodson's ability to hold his team together, imo.

Might not be Woodson not being able to keep the team together but rather mutual agreement. With Geronimo his family has wanted him to be closer to home the last couple of seasons so maybe that will be a factor.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

You win some you lose some. You win most (at home) and lost most (on road to teams with a pulse).

This team goes as TJD goes. I love TJD as a player and can't imagine what this program would have been over the last 4 years without him. However, I believe he and we lack in a few extremely important areas.

I've said it and stand by it - TJD isn't a leader. It's not natural for him. He elevated his game for a stretch that led us to wins. That's huge. XJ (good or bad) is more of a natural leader. JHS has some of it but not sure how much it gets through with age and the chemistry of the team. It's been discussed you don't have to agree with it.

I would have liked to have seen some baseline set by now of what is expected. I feel even in some wins our intensity level was lacking. As USPS says you're the team in between your 5 best/worst performances. I've seen more than 5 that lack in the intensity level of what should be expected. If others are cool with that effort/intensity level, awesome, I don't think we're there and that's something we should coming up towards the end of the second year of a new head coach.

We're not playing a modern brand of basketball. It's won us games but I don't think we're near the potential of this team. By percentage, we're a good shooting team from deep, probably close to top 10% in the nation/conference. It's fantastic but it matters little when you don't take enough for it to impact the game. (this is modern basketball)

On the other end of the court, teams shoot too good of a percentage on more attempts which equalizes our advantage with TJD down low. Our wings are typically a step slow which has led to giving up too many straight line drives (Northwestern at home) but also forces us to over help which teams can exploit with a decent pass and a really good look.

Basically, we're winning the 2 point battle with opponents winning the 3 point battle. Sometimes our 2 point battle wins the war and sometimes opponent's 3 point battle wins the war with less talent. Imagine an offense that has TJD operating down low with us taking more 3PAs. That would be more of a modern offense and a much high ceiling.

If we can overpower teams in the tourney while they don't have good guards and wings that can exploit our weakness we'll win some games. Otherwise, TJD will have to come over to attempt to block shots or we'll get in rotations giving up too many open looks. We've seen a few teams or players get hot and bury us from deep. When you give up those clean looks early it seems they can't miss after. It's not a winning recipe in a one and done tourney.

[HoosierInParadise 1,038]

You win some you lose some. You win most (at home) and lost most (on road to teams with a pulse).
This team goes as TJD goes. I love TJD as a player and can't imagine what this program would have been over the last 4 years without him. However, I believe he and we lack in a few extremely important areas.
I've said it and stand by it - TJD isn't a leader. It's not natural for him. He elevated his game for a stretch that led us to wins. That's huge. XJ (good or bad) is more of a natural leader. JHS has some of it but not sure how much it gets through with age and the chemistry of the team. It's been discussed you don't have to agree with it.
I would have liked to have seen some baseline set by now of what is expected. I feel even in some wins our intensity level was lacking. As USPS says you're the team in between your 5 best/worst performances. I've seen more than 5 that lack in the intensity level of what should be expected. If others are cool with that effort/intensity level, awesome, I don't think we're there and that's something we should coming up towards the end of the second year of a new head coach.
We're not playing a modern brand of basketball. It's won us games but I don't think we're near the potential of this team. By percentage, we're a good shooting team from deep, probably close to top 10% in the nation/conference. It's fantastic but it matters little when you don't take enough for it to impact the game. (this is modern basketball)
On the other end of the court, teams shoot too good of a percentage on more attempts which equalizes our advantage with TJD down low. Our wings are typically a step slow which has led to giving up too many straight line drives (Northwestern at home) but also forces us to over help which teams can exploit with a decent pass and a really good look.
Basically, we're winning the 2 point battle with opponents winning the 3 point battle. Sometimes our 2 point battle wins the war and sometimes opponent's 3 point battle wins the war with less talent. Imagine an offense that has TJD operating down low with us taking more 3PAs. That would be more of a modern offense and a much high ceiling.
If we can overpower teams in the tourney while they don't have good guards and wings that can exploit our weakness we'll win some games. Otherwise, TJD will have to come over to attempt to block shots or we'll get in rotations giving up too many open looks. We've seen a few teams or players get hot and bury us from deep. When you give up those clean looks early it seems they can't miss after. It's not a winning recipe in a one and done tourney.

Good post. Hopefully, the team will find a way to have some post-season success.

Sent from my SM-F936U1 using BtownBanners mobile app

[RaceToTheTop 28,828]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

Might not be Woodson not being able to keep the team together but rather mutual agreement. With Geronimo his family has wanted him to be closer to home the last couple of seasons so maybe that will be a factor.

And in both years, he didn't transfer despite knowing he was not the starter.

[RaceToTheTop 28,828]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

We're not playing a modern brand of basketball. It's won us games but I don't think we're near the potential of this team. By percentage, we're a good shooting team from deep, probably close to top 10% in the nation/conference. It's fantastic but it matters little when you don't take enough for it to impact the game. (this is modern basketball)

 

It's been a trade off for the most part.  TJD is good enough to get a lot of high percentage shots down low.  But a team that gets hot from three becomes hard to beat -- 40% from three will match 60% from two.  The interior game might draw more fouls, but a team shooting a lot of threes also tends to get a lot of long offensive rebounds.  But taking a lot of threes can also shoot you out of a game if you aren't hitting.  I.e., watching the Iowa/Wisky game and Iowa is shooting themselves to a loss.

For the year, IU is in the 96% percentile of two point attempts per game but only the 4th percentile of three pointers taken per game.  Shooting percentiles are solid in both cases -- 53.4% from two, good for the 84% percentile, 38.0% from three, good for 95% percentile, and an overall effective percent of 54.4%, good for 93% percentile.  Where IU has lacked is getting to the line given the amount of shots they are taken inside the arc.  TJD gets there enough, but that's about it.  That's an area where X would help as opposed to JHS.  JHS has a superior mid range game to X, but X drives and dishes inside better, and those types of plays draw fouls.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

It's been a trade off for the most part.  TJD is good enough to get a lot of high percentage shots down low.  But a team that gets hot from three becomes hard to beat -- 40% from three will match 60% from two.  The interior game might draw more fouls, but a team shooting a lot of threes also tends to get a lot of long offensive rebounds.  But taking a lot of threes can also shoot you out of a game if you aren't hitting.  I.e., watching the Iowa/Wisky game and Iowa is shooting themselves to a loss.
For the year, IU is in the 96% percentile of two point attempts per game but only the 4th percentile of three pointers taken per game.  Shooting percentiles are solid in both cases -- 53.4% from two, good for the 84% percentile, 38.0% from three, good for 95% percentile, and an overall effective percent of 54.4%, good for 93% percentile.  Where IU has lacked is getting to the line given the amount of shots they are taken inside the arc.  TJD gets there enough, but that's about it.  That's an area where X would help as opposed to JHS.  JHS has a superior mid range game to X, but X drives and dishes inside better, and those types of plays draw fouls.

Not having the lane clogged when your point drives helps getting to the rim. JHS can get there, XJ would help but would also be driving into two post defenders. Again, modern basketball.