(2023) - PF Arrinten Page to USC

[rayl456]

13 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’m not paid enough to figure that out. I don’t know their internal plans for 23/24. I imagine they go hard for 2 or 3 transfer portal guys. Get the right guys. Put the NIL to work. Whatever it takes to have better recruiting efficiency. They made a mess of 23 recruiting but they still have hope. Hoping internally they figure some things out.


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So, let them figure it out.  Have some faith.  You've stated your opinion.  Time to enjoy this season.  Go Hoosiers!  I'm older...72.  I'm not going to hyperventilate over 18 year old kids.  It's entertainment.  Nothing more.

[J34]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Illinois ripped the transfer portal.

Ohio state a great recruiting class and ripped the TP.

Michigan returns an All American center and has a good recruiting class and they are still down.

Purdue has a world class coach, returns a 7’3” center that puts up killer stats per minute and great front court depth, but they will still be way down from last year.




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You lost me at "world class" coach. With the talent he's had through the years, and no final fours, I'd go with a good coach, and better person.

Investing so much energy worrying about our roster, a full season before our projected best team in awhile,  is not good for your health.

We'll know more about our coaching, recruiting, and overall future after(or mid-season) the season.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

So, let them figure it out.  Have some faith.  You've stated your opinion.  Time to enjoy this season.  Go Hoosiers!  I'm older...72.  I'm not going to hyperventilate over 18 year old kids.  It's entertainment.  Nothing more.

Good for you. You should. Unlike some, I enjoy the roster building/management side of things. As I’ve said so many times, Transfer portal keeps the dream alive. I’ve historically been ahead of the trends with all things IU because I can view them objectively the same way I view other programs building.

Now if it weren’t for transfer portal I really would be pushing the red button. It’s a rare year you losing maybe an entire starting 5. Race and Trayce may not have been counted on returning so we do have some “starters” on the bench.

Anyway, go Hoosiers. This is all good discussion 30 days before the season. I say we keep it going. Lol


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

You lost me at "world class" coach. With the talent he's had through the years, and no final fours, I'd go with a good coach, and better person.
Investing so much energy worrying about our roster, a full season before our projected best team in awhile,  is not good for your health.
We'll know more about our coaching, recruiting, and overall future after(or mid-season) the season.
 

Lol. Good for my health? That’s a good one.

With the work I do, worrying about IU’s recruiting is small potatoes. That’s my entertainment. Lol

Painter is world class with XOs. Almost always gets better results than his recruiting rankings and if you watch his style great sets/spacing/game plans.

Can’t wait for the season, love this team.


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[cthomas]

From my perspective, I love having Mike Woodson as our coach. I was a big fan of his during his playing days and was happy for his NBA days. I don't buy that coaching college kids is more difficult than coaching NBA guys. As CMW said, it's just basketball. Nobody understands IU basketball better than CMW. His knowledge of the game is at the highest level. He has a great staff and I believe he will always put a product on the court that we can be proud of.

[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Illinois ripped the transfer portal.

Ohio state a great recruiting class and ripped the TP.

Michigan returns an All American center and has a good recruiting class and they are still down.

Purdue has a world class coach, returns a 7’3” center that puts up killer stats per minute and great front court depth, but they will still be way down from last year.




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Illinois most certainly did not “rip the transfer portal“. Shannon is a fantastic get for them, but Mayer has pretty much been mediocre his entire four years at Baylor but is kinda famous because he had a great tournament two years ago and has a super cool mullet, and the third transfer player they got has played a total of about 10 minutes of college basketball and took a redshirt his first year at Baylor.

Matthew Mayer four year stat averages: 15.5 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.9 asst, 0.9 to,  42%fg, 65%ft, 34% 3pt. 126 games played, 33 starts (all last year).

And Painter, who I really really like, is a “world-class coach” who has never been to a final four, and had a 12th place and 10th place finish in the past nine years. He’s pretty good but he’s no savant. Btw, Painter’s super productive per- minute big (and he certainly is) has never averaged 20 mpg and got pulled for defensive deficiencies routinely last year.

 

[HoosierAloha]

3 hours ago, cthomas said:

The thing that I hope we never lose sight of is that we all want the same thing, IU being great in basketball again. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I state my opinion and others state theirs. I tell my wife all the time that she is married to an idiot. I enjoy the back and forth and never take anything personally. It's all in good fun and I'm looking forward to a great season. I can't wait to see this team play.

Absolutely, I doubt there is anyone on this site that doesn't want IU to win every game every year. It's interesting to see and laugh at the different perspectives. Overall, we (as an athletic program) are great with the PR game but the on court/field and sustained successes are lacking. It's great we have a loyal basketball following or this program wouldn't have a chance. There isn't anything to take personally just different perspectives. Echo chambers are a great way to place blinders on and lead to ignorance.

[HoosierAloha]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

You don’t follow recruiting too closely do you?  Every impact player we could have a chance with is spoken for.  Assuming we get a Reneau or Bates is not a normal thing.  (Yes, it’s happened twice but it’s incredibly rare).  The guys that wait until spring are few and far between. Most players want to commit before their HS seasons start. The pickings of 2023 recruits is incredibly thin at this point unless some diamond in the rough happens. 
 

Thus, transfer portal. 

Counting on decommits from coaching changes as a recruiting strategy is dangerous. Snagging those players if we have open slots late in the recruiting cycle can elevate a class but we probably shouldn't depend on that happening every season. I'd much prefer to have solid high school recruits and pepper in the occasional outstanding recruit or late bloomer.

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Absolutely, I doubt there is anyone on this site that doesn't want IU to win every game every year. It's interesting to see and laugh at the different perspectives. Overall, we (as an athletic program) are great with the PR game but the on court/field and sustained successes are lacking. It's great we have a loyal basketball following or this program wouldn't have a chance. There isn't anything to take personally just different perspectives. Echo chambers are a great way to place blinders on and lead to ignorance.

Great post!

Yes—of course we have crimson colored glasses. But I would suggest that the grass isn’t always greener; especially if Woody is the answer. And that’s still an “if.”

But I will not accept that Matthew Mayer is any good— that is objectively non-negotiable.

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Counting on decommits from coaching changes as a recruiting strategy is dangerous. Snagging those players if we have open slots late in the recruiting cycle can elevate a class but we probably shouldn't depend on that happening every season. I'd much prefer to have solid high school recruits and pepper in the occasional outstanding recruit or late bloomer.

Again strongly agree.

But as Wayne and most have said, the portal is an extremely viable option.

[HoosierAloha]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Good for you. You should. Unlike some, I enjoy the roster building/management side of things. As I’ve said so many times, Transfer portal keeps the dream alive. I’ve historically been ahead of the trends with all things IU because I can view them objectively the same way I view other programs building.

Now if it weren’t for transfer portal I really would be pushing the red button. It’s a rare year you losing maybe an entire starting 5. Race and Trayce may not have been counted on returning so we do have some “starters” on the bench.

Anyway, go Hoosiers. This is all good discussion 30 days before the season. I say we keep it going. Lol


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This, so much this.

I don't want just a one hit wonder from IU once or twice during a coaches tenure. I want to see IU back to the days where you can pencil them in for a top 4 finish in the Big 1.o, advancing in the field of 64, and to know they're going to give all the e and e an opponent can handle and more.

Sustaining that isn't snagging a couple of solid recruits who will need some time to adjust to college to be difference makers and praying you land impact recruits in April and/or hoping for great transfers. If our NIL is on the level of offering hundreds of thousands to transfer players I feel better about it. That was the precedence set this past free agent period. Will we rise to that level or keep talking?

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Illinois most certainly did not “rip the transfer portal“. Shannon is a fantastic get for them, Mayer has pretty much been mediocre his entire four years at Baylor but is kinda famous because he had a great tournament two years ago and has a super cool mullet, and the third transfer player they got has played a total of about 10 minutes of college basketball and took a redshirt his first year at Baylor.
Matthew Mayer four year stat averages: 15.5 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.9 asst, 0.9 to,  42%fg, 65%ft, 34% 3pt. 126 games played, 33 starts (all last year).
And Painter, who I really really like, is a “world-class coach” who has never been to a final four, and had a 12th place and 10th place finish in the past nine years. He’s pretty good but he’s no savant. Btw, Painter’s super productive per- minute big (and he certainly is) has never averaged 20 mpg and got pulled for defensive deficiencies routinely last year.
 

Illinois had the 2nd ranked transfer portal class in the nation. All 3 top 100 recruits. 2 of them 6’9”.

Illinois has the #10 ranked recruiting class. #33, 53, 72, 109

Coleman Hawkins, RJ Melendez can play. Luke Goode is ok.

Great coach.

The only thing consensus about Illinois is mixed expectations. I think they will be good. But they have significant ?s despite top 10 recruiting class and top 3 transfer class.

We differ in opinion on Painter and that’s okay. Final four talk with Purdue is silly, they can’t get a top 10 recruiting class to save their lives. Never/rarely get a 5 star. Swanigan? His results far exceed their recruiting almost every year. I don’t know what to think about Purdue this year, they should be way down. They will be compared to last year.

All these teams you mentioned dropped significantly in national rankings just like we will. Not sure I get the point.


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[Stuhoo]

41 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Illinois had the 2nd ranked transfer portal class in the nation. All 3 top 100 recruits. 2 of them 6’9”.

Illinois has the #10 ranked recruiting class. #33, 53, 72, 109

Coleman Hawkins, RJ Melendez can play. Luke Goode is ok.

Great coach.

The only thing consensus about Illinois is mixed expectations. I think they will be good. But they have significant ?s despite top 10 recruiting class and top 3 transfer class.

We differ in opinion on Painter and that’s okay. Final four talk with Purdue is silly, they can’t get a top 10 recruiting class to save their lives. Never/rarely get a 5 star. Swanigan? His results far exceed their recruiting almost every year. I don’t know what to think about Purdue this year, they should be way down. They will be compared to last year.

All these teams you mentioned dropped significantly in national rankings just like we will. Not sure I get the point.


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We disagree about the quality of Illinois portal guys. They got one big time guy and one mediocre but famous guy.

Two tall guys? Yes, Mayer is tall, but he’s also a terrible rebounder, and a big that takes about half his shots from 3, where he is a low percentage shooter. Last year he took over 4 three pointers a game and made 32.4%. The other tall guy may or may not crack their rotation. Baylor didn’t want him.

I largely agree with everything you said about Painter, but he’s got some serious guard problems for the near future. If Woody leaves us with a guard rotation approximating David Jenkins, Brandon Newman, and freshmen Braden Smith and Loyer THEN I’ll be worried.

[go iu bb]

It sounds like we should just shut down the basketball program since it's doomed anyways. I'll miss it 

[Tasmanian Devil]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:47 PM, Stuhoo said:

 

Besides, in the past five years Calipari’s best years were  one Elite 8 and one Sweet Sixteen while rolling through about 100 players that didn’t stay at UK long enough to unpack their suitcases. 
 

Calipari hasn’t done squat since KAT.

Does Cal do an absolutely phenomenal job coaching up talented frosh and getting them to play together? Without question. But with the yearly roster turnover, UK is going to be perpetually young. That inexperience is too much for his teams to overcome, no matter how talented.

It’s interesting to note that of the two teams to truly embrace one-and-done (Duke and UK), each only have a single title - which was won as a direct result of senior leadership (Quinn Cook; Darius Miller).

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Calipari hasn’t done squat since KAT.
Does Cal do an absolutely phenomenal job coaching up talented frosh and getting them to play together? Without question. But with the yearly roster turnover, UK is going to be perpetually young. That inexperience is too much for his teams to overcome, no matter how talented.
It’s interesting to note that of the two teams to truly embrace one-and-done (Duke and UK), each only have a single title - which was won as a direct result of senior leadership (Quinn Cook; Darius Miller).

This is a common take but it’s wrong. UK won title in 2011. Since

21-12. NIT
29-11 runner up
38-1 final four. Thank god Wisconsin
27-9 2nd round
32-6 E8
26-11 S16
30-7 E8
25-6 Covid cancel top seed likely 1 or 2
9-16 terrible year. Covid. Definitely a WTF
26-8 1st round upset.

Any team in America would take these results except maybe Duke, lol.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

I just looked up that 38-1 team roster for a reminder. My god.

Harrison twins
Devin Booker
Karl Anthony Towns
Will Caulie Stein
Trey Lyle
Tyler Ulis
Marcus Lee
Dakari Johnson
Alex Poythress

Omg…..


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[Hoosierfan2017]

11 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This is a common take but it’s wrong. UK won title in 2011. Since

21-12. NIT
29-11 runner up
38-1 final four. Thank god Wisconsin
27-9 2nd round
32-6 E8
26-11 S16
30-7 E8
25-6 Covid cancel top seed likely 1 or 2
9-16 terrible year. Covid. Definitely a WTF
26-8 1st round upset.

Any team in America would take these results except maybe Duke, lol.


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It’s just a cope some IU fans have adopted. It’s easier to pretend that he doesn’t get results (rendering his recruiting tactics not worth it) than it is to accept that UK has been great under his command. I was born in 1994. We’ve had four 25+ year seasons since then. One elite eight appearance. Calipari has eleven 25+ win seasons in thirteen seasons at UK. Six SEC titles. Seven elite eight appearances (with one canceled tournament). 

But hey, at least when we lose we do it the right way. I’d hate to have Calipari and, gasp, win. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I just looked up that 38-1 team roster for a reminder. My god.

Harrison twins
Devin Booker
Karl Anthony Towns
Will Caulie Stein
Trey Lyle
Tyler Ulis
Marcus Lee
Dakari Johnson
Alex Poythress

Omg…..


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You think Calipari sends Nike a Christmas card every year? Gets paid 10 million a year to coach that talent against college teams and complain how young they are. Lol.


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[Tasmanian Devil]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This is a common take but it’s wrong. UK won title in 2011. Since

21-12. NIT
29-11 runner up
38-1 final four. Thank god Wisconsin
27-9 2nd round
32-6 E8
26-11 S16
30-7 E8
25-6 Covid cancel top seed likely 1 or 2
9-16 terrible year. Covid. Definitely a WTF
26-8 1st round upset.

Any team in America would take these results except maybe Duke, lol.


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Look at all your years since 2015:

2016 - overrated talent (led by Skal) lost to IU in round of 32.

2017 - Lost to eventual champion UNC. But absolutely blew a chance for a Final Four by allowing 12 straight Tar Heel points in the last 5 minutes.

2018 - Had a Final Four for the taking but laid an egg against Kansas St.

2019 - Had another Final Four practically given to them when they faced an Auburn team they had beaten twice during the regular season AND  the Tigers had just lost their best inside player to an ACL injury. And still lost.

2020 - no way they were going to be a 1-seed, not ranked 8th in the final polls. Kansas, Gonzaga, Baylor, Florida St and Dayton all would have gotten nods over the Cats. And, remember, this is the same UK team who was ranked #1 and lost to Evansville AT HOME. Even though they only lost 6 games, they were extremely inconsistent most of the year. Probably a GOOD thing for Cal that Covid canceled the tournament.

2021 - Can’t blame that on Covid. Just a really bad team.

2022 - Again, lost to an opponent they had no business losing to. Just like in 2018. Just like in 2019.

As I said, Calipari does a great job coaching up young talent. But he hasn’t had a top talent like Townes since 2015. Without a player like that, the inexperience comes back to bite you almost every time.

Do you have good teams with the OAD approach? Maybe - but in my admittedly-biased opinion turning your roster over nearly every year doesn’t give you the best chance for success, especially the deeper one goes in the Tournament. UK’s results since 2015 prove that out.