Expendable IU sports

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

12 hours ago, Magnanimous said:

Title IX

Just because they are on the block doesn't mean they'll get chopped. 

[Aaron]

Important injection to this discussion: The NCAA requires to field 18 sports to be a D1 program unless something changes. This means we can ax up to six sports and still field teams.

In my opinion these ones have to be kept from both historical, facility and logistical perspective:

Guys

1. Men's Basketball 

2. Football 

3. Baseball 

4. Men's Soccer 

5. Men's Swimming

Girls

1. Women's Basketball 

2. Volleyball 

3. Softball

4. Women's Soccer 

5. Women's Swimming 

That is 10 must keeps.

That leaves 14 expendable sports and we have to keep at least eight of them to be within NCAA requirements. 

These are:

Guys

1. Wrestling 

2. Men's Cross Country 

3. Men's Track and Field Indoor

4. Men's Track and Field Outdoor (yes indoor and outdoor are counted as separate sports among the 24)

5. Men's Tennis

6. Men's Golf

Girls

1. Water Polo

2. Women's Cross Country

3. Women's Track and Field Indoor

4. Women's Track and Field Outdoor

5. Women's Tennis

6. Women's Golf

7. Field Hockey 

8. Rowing

Looking at this logically we have two more women's sports than men's sports to help offset Football and Title Nine.

As much as Rowing looks out of place, it is also a great Title Nine sport with 20 scholarships which is most of any team outside Football so it is most likely safe. Field Hockey also is among the higher women's sports with 12 scholarships so as bad as the team is, not sure we can justify from a Title Nine perspective (unless things get really bad and then this is probably the second most likely sport to go for women). With the new course and Women's Golf having only six scholarships I don't see this going. Women's Tennis is one of the few all or nothing sports believe it or not, so IU cannot award partial scholarships (other sports with this rule are Football, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Volleyball) so that is pretty safe with eight. Women's Track and Field awards to many scholarships again to make up for the loss from a Title Nine perspective with 18.

This leaves Water Polo as the only sport I see IU can reasonably justify axing from a women's perspective. It is only eight scholarships and is the only sport the Big Ten does not sponsor (only IU and Michigan play Water Polo among Big Ten teams) and IU fields in a different conference as a result (Mountain Pacific Sports Federation as the vast majority of Water Polo teams compete out west). This is also an extremely expensive sport to field as IU is often flying out west to compete as that is where most of the teams are. If any sport is going to get chopped on the women's side it's Water Polo. 

From a men's perspective, scholarships are less important, other than taking at least as many away as you did from women. Assuming we chop water polo, we need to make it up by axing at least eight scholarships on the men's side. Wrestling is really bad, but it is a huge deal in the Big Ten and has new facility so unless we dump Field Hockey as well I don't see this going. Track is 12.6 scholarship's for Men, so unless we dump a second women's sport outside of Water Polo's eight, no reason to send this packing. Men's Tennis and Golf equal nine scholarships so these are probably the first men's sports to go if Water Polo is cut.

In conclusion from a numbers perspective the first three cuts would probably be Water Polo on the women's side and Golf and Tennis on men's side, dropping IU of three sports and 17 scholarships putting us at 21 sports. This would leave us with nine men's sports and 12 women's sports,

If things got worse, the next round of cuts would probably be Field Hockey (12) and Wrestling (9.9) which would take us to five sports axed and 18.9 scholarships for men and 20 for women which is basically equivalent and would put us at 19 sports fielded (one above NCAA minimum) with eight sports for men and eleven for women and basically in the same spot Title Nine wise. 

This is as far as I see IU going unless something drastic happens that no one even wants to think about. 

[CS2]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:23 PM, Magnanimous said:

Article on IU’s expected budget shortfall.

Read this article.

[Magnanimous]

21 hours ago, Aaron said:

Important injection to this discussion: The NCAA requires to field 18 sports to be a D1 program unless something changes. This means we can ax up to six sports and still field teams.

In my opinion these ones have to be kept from both historical, facility and logistical perspective:

Guys

1. Men's Basketball 

2. Football 

3. Baseball 

4. Men's Soccer 

5. Men's Swimming

Girls

1. Women's Basketball 

2. Volleyball 

3. Softball

4. Women's Soccer 

5. Women's Swimming 

That is 10 must keeps.

That leaves 14 expendable sports and we have to keep at least eight of them to be within NCAA requirements. 

These are:

Guys

1. Wrestling 

2. Men's Cross Country 

3. Men's Track and Field Indoor

4. Men's Track and Field Outdoor (yes indoor and outdoor are counted as separate sports among the 24)

5. Men's Tennis

6. Men's Golf

Girls

1. Water Polo

2. Women's Cross Country

3. Women's Track and Field Indoor

4. Women's Track and Field Outdoor

5. Women's Tennis

6. Women's Golf

7. Field Hockey 

8. Rowing

Looking at this logically we have two more women's sports than men's sports to help offset Football and Title Nine.

As much as Rowing looks out of place, it is also a great Title Nine sport with 20 scholarships which is most of any team outside Football so it is most likely safe. Field Hockey also is among the higher women's sports with 12 scholarships so as bad as the team is, not sure we can justify from a Title Nine perspective (unless things get really bad and then this is probably the second most likely sport to go for women). With the new course and Women's Golf having only six scholarships I don't see this going. Women's Tennis is one of the few all or nothing sports believe it or not, so IU cannot award partial scholarships (other sports with this rule are Football, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Volleyball) so that is pretty safe with eight. Women's Track and Field awards to many scholarships again to make up for the loss from a Title Nine perspective with 18.

This leaves Water Polo as the only sport I see IU can reasonably justify axing from a women's perspective. It is only eight scholarships and is the only sport the Big Ten does not sponsor (only IU and Michigan play Water Polo among Big Ten teams) and IU fields in a different conference as a result (Mountain Pacific Sports Federation as the vast majority of Water Polo teams compete out west). This is also an extremely expensive sport to field as IU is often flying out west to compete as that is where most of the teams are. If any sport is going to get chopped on the women's side it's Water Polo. 

From a men's perspective, scholarships are less important, other than taking at least as many away as you did from women. Assuming we chop water polo, we need to make it up by axing at least eight scholarships on the men's side. Wrestling is really bad, but it is a huge deal in the Big Ten and has new facility so unless we dump Field Hockey as well I don't see this going. Track is 12.6 scholarship's for Men, so unless we dump a second women's sport outside of Water Polo's eight, no reason to send this packing. Men's Tennis and Golf equal nine scholarships so these are probably the first men's sports to go if Water Polo is cut.

In conclusion from a numbers perspective the first three cuts would probably be Water Polo on the women's side and Golf and Tennis on men's side, dropping IU of three sports and 17 scholarships putting us at 21 sports. This would leave us with nine men's sports and 12 women's sports,

If things got worse, the next round of cuts would probably be Field Hockey (12) and Wrestling (9.9) which would take us to five sports axed and 18.9 scholarships for men and 20 for women which is basically equivalent and would put us at 19 sports fielded (one above NCAA minimum) with eight sports for men and eleven for women and basically in the same spot Title Nine wise. 

This is as far as I see IU going unless something drastic happens that no one even wants to think about. 

Very insightful. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

On 7/12/2020 at 5:30 PM, Aaron said:

Important injection to this discussion: The NCAA requires to field 18 sports to be a D1 program unless something changes. This means we can ax up to six sports and still field teams.

In my opinion these ones have to be kept from both historical, facility and logistical perspective:

Guys

1. Men's Basketball 

2. Football 

3. Baseball 

4. Men's Soccer 

5. Men's Swimming

Girls

1. Women's Basketball 

2. Volleyball 

3. Softball

4. Women's Soccer 

5. Women's Swimming 

That is 10 must keeps.

That leaves 14 expendable sports and we have to keep at least eight of them to be within NCAA requirements. 

These are:

Guys

1. Wrestling 

2. Men's Cross Country 

3. Men's Track and Field Indoor

4. Men's Track and Field Outdoor (yes indoor and outdoor are counted as separate sports among the 24)

5. Men's Tennis

6. Men's Golf

Girls

1. Water Polo

2. Women's Cross Country

3. Women's Track and Field Indoor

4. Women's Track and Field Outdoor

5. Women's Tennis

6. Women's Golf

7. Field Hockey 

8. Rowing

Looking at this logically we have two more women's sports than men's sports to help offset Football and Title Nine.

As much as Rowing looks out of place, it is also a great Title Nine sport with 20 scholarships which is most of any team outside Football so it is most likely safe. Field Hockey also is among the higher women's sports with 12 scholarships so as bad as the team is, not sure we can justify from a Title Nine perspective (unless things get really bad and then this is probably the second most likely sport to go for women). With the new course and Women's Golf having only six scholarships I don't see this going. Women's Tennis is one of the few all or nothing sports believe it or not, so IU cannot award partial scholarships (other sports with this rule are Football, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Volleyball) so that is pretty safe with eight. Women's Track and Field awards to many scholarships again to make up for the loss from a Title Nine perspective with 18.

This leaves Water Polo as the only sport I see IU can reasonably justify axing from a women's perspective. It is only eight scholarships and is the only sport the Big Ten does not sponsor (only IU and Michigan play Water Polo among Big Ten teams) and IU fields in a different conference as a result (Mountain Pacific Sports Federation as the vast majority of Water Polo teams compete out west). This is also an extremely expensive sport to field as IU is often flying out west to compete as that is where most of the teams are. If any sport is going to get chopped on the women's side it's Water Polo. 

From a men's perspective, scholarships are less important, other than taking at least as many away as you did from women. Assuming we chop water polo, we need to make it up by axing at least eight scholarships on the men's side. Wrestling is really bad, but it is a huge deal in the Big Ten and has new facility so unless we dump Field Hockey as well I don't see this going. Track is 12.6 scholarship's for Men, so unless we dump a second women's sport outside of Water Polo's eight, no reason to send this packing. Men's Tennis and Golf equal nine scholarships so these are probably the first men's sports to go if Water Polo is cut.

In conclusion from a numbers perspective the first three cuts would probably be Water Polo on the women's side and Golf and Tennis on men's side, dropping IU of three sports and 17 scholarships putting us at 21 sports. This would leave us with nine men's sports and 12 women's sports,

If things got worse, the next round of cuts would probably be Field Hockey (12) and Wrestling (9.9) which would take us to five sports axed and 18.9 scholarships for men and 20 for women which is basically equivalent and would put us at 19 sports fielded (one above NCAA minimum) with eight sports for men and eleven for women and basically in the same spot Title Nine wise. 

This is as far as I see IU going unless something drastic happens that no one even wants to think about. 

Outside of title ix needing to be gone anyways, they will have to make a change. Many schools worked around even before all of this. If things keep going in the direction they are, sports might not be played. But if schools have to pick, the NCAA will have to adjust because schools won't be able to afford 18 teams. Outside of men's bball and football, all other sports are just moochers. 

[Brass Cannon]

Hmm I could use some laughs. 
 

So why exactly does title IX need done away with? 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Hmm I could use some laughs. 
 
So why exactly does title IX need done away with? 

And what does he have against other sports?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

12 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Hmm I could use some laughs. 
 

So why exactly does title IX need done away with? 

Schools should be able to choose what sports they want without having to make it even based on what the school can afford and what money that sport brings in. 

[Brass Cannon]

9 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Schools should be able to choose what sports they want without having to make it even based on what the school can afford and what money that sport brings in. 

Pretty sure private schools can 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

53 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Pretty sure private schools can 

I'm saying all schools should be able to. Let schools have the choice. If Indiana wanted men's basketball, football, men's soccer and women's bball. They should be able to. And right now, that would be the best option with there being so much uncertainty. 

[Brass Cannon]

6 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I'm saying all schools should be able to. Let schools have the choice. If Indiana wanted men's basketball, football, men's soccer and women's bball. They should be able to. And right now, that would be the best option with there being so much uncertainty. 

Well that’s silly because IU is a state school and and is beholden to the taxpayers.  
 

Now if you wanted to tell me that players on teams that are a net profit and not subsidized by other programs shouldn’t count towards title IX I might get on board with that.  
 

Basically have to subsidizes athletics equally.  But it’s ludicrous to say that a school could be free to not subsidize women’s sports 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Well that’s silly because IU is a state school and and is beholden to the taxpayers.  
 

Now if you wanted to tell me that players on teams that are a net profit and not subsidized by other programs shouldn’t count towards title IX I might get on board with that.  
 

Basically have to subsidizes athletics equally.  But it’s ludicrous to say that a school could be free to not subsidize women’s sports 

Why is that ludicrous? It should be an option. Would every school do it? No. IU would still probably have pretty much everything they do now. Most big schools wouldn't want the Twitter hate to go along with it. But smaller schools that don't make any money, they should be able to have that option. Might be able to save some money by not wasting it on some sports. 

[Brass Cannon]

9 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Why is that ludicrous? It should be an option. Would every school do it? No. IU would still probably have pretty much everything they do now. Most big schools wouldn't want the Twitter hate to go along with it. But smaller schools that don't make any money, they should be able to have that option. Might be able to save some money by not wasting it on some sports. 

They have the option not to have sports. Or to offer sports to both genders.  Don’t try to paint this like they don’t have options.  

[finky]

I find it funny that Universities are worrying about revenue shortfalls.  Let me rephrase, they are facing revenue shortfalls and lots of revenue.  The thing that is funny, Stanford for instance has $27 Billion dollars in their endowment.  IU has $2.5 Billion in endowment.  Some of the funds in the endowment are restricted, but a very low percentage.  Why do Universities need Billion dollar investment accounts?  To build University buildings?  No, they issue bonds for that.  This whole "OMG the Sky is falling" for a decrease in revenue shortfalls thus cutting sports is a hoax on all of our intelligence.  MOST Schools have the money to maintain all of their sports, for SEVERAL years....what they are telling us is having Billions of dollars in Investment accounts (for what?) is more important.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

5 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

They have the option not to have sports. Or to offer sports to both genders.  Don’t try to paint this like they don’t have options.  

Business wise, only smart to keep men's basketball and football. Schools can't do that though. 

[Trish]

As someone who has been effected by COVID in terms of employment of college basketball, I'd say there's a lot on the table going forward. 

We all know how important college football is as well as March Madness. It's the largest revenues for schools athletic departments and frankly it supports the livelihood of dozens of other sports such as volleyball, wrestling, track, etc. 

In my opinion, with talking with many people around college athletics, if college football doesn't occur -- we're looking at dramatic changes to college sports for many years to come. At this point, I highly doubt college football plays a full season. I could see a partial two - three weeks being played before things get out of control. 

In terms of basketball, I don't see basketball at any level being played. High school, college, and professional (maybe not professional if they do a Bubble like they are). 

Come winter, it will be impossible to determine if someone has COVID or just the common cold or just the common flu. Little Johnny shows up to practice at his high school with the sniffles and no one thinks the wiser, turns out he has COVID and spreads it to three different teams that week! There's lots at stake clearly, it's effected my job market bar none. I think we all need to be prepared to have a non sport year this up-coming year. 

[Magnanimous]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:26 PM, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Can anyone locate a breakdown of the overall athletic dept. budget by individual sports program? 

I have no idea what we spend on field hockey vs. water polo vs. golf vs any other sport.  With no frame of reference, I would expect baseball and softball to be big expense items based on numbers of participants, uniforms/equipment and lots of road trips with multiple overnight stays.  Not advocating that by any means but do you look to cut as few programs as possible to save the others or eliminate much lesser profile programs but in greater numbers?  I certainly hope we don't have to reach that point.

What would be the impact if McRobbie didn't suck B1G money for other purposes?

Bet Glass is counting his blessings every morning that he's no longer AD.

 

Not sure what IU’s breakdown is, but LSU’s net profits and losses by sport were posted on Twitter a few months ago. Figures are from the 2016-17 year. Link

Football: +$56m

Men’s Basketball: +$1.6m

Baseball: $500k

Rest of LSU sports: -$23m

[Magnanimous]

2018-19 NCAA revenue and expenses by school. Link

[Magnanimous]

Big ten revenue losses if no football season by school. Link

[Magnanimous]

Iowa announced today they’re dropping four sports after this year: men’s gymnastics, men’s tennis, and men’s and women’s swimming and diving. Link