Negativity Thread

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

2 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

For every criticism of Archie, right or wrong, reasonable or not, I just can't understand this new hot topic lately about Archie "allowing" Green and Durham to become captains. They were chosen by a team vote. What was he supposed to do? Tell them to choose who they want but you can't choose Devonte? And if you say he could have chosen them himself but he couldn't choose Crean players, he'd be choosing freshman or sophomores to captain. That very well could have divided the team right from the start. C'mon. There's plenty of things to criticize. It's hard to take any point being made seriously if you're also arguing this point. 

He could have chosen Brunk a senior who knows what it takes to make the tourney and Race. Race has been with the team almost as long as Al.  

[monskisprodigy 1,814]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

He could have chosen Brunk a senior who knows what it takes to make the tourney and Race. Race has been with the team almost as long as Al.  

I'll be honest, I have been on a lot of teams on multiple levels, and never had a coach pick our team captain. In my experience, this is something that was always left up to a team vote. Also, I am sure summer performance etc. played into this, and Archie may have been okay with it leading into the season based upon what he had seen. Things change, hindsight is always 20/20. 

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

Just now, monskisprodigy said:

I'll be honest, I have been on a lot of teams on multiple levels, and never had a coach pick our team captain. In my experience, this is something that was always left up to a team vote. Also, I am sure summer performance etc. played into this, and Archie may have been okay with it leading into the season based upon what he had seen. Things change, hindsight is always 20/20. 

I honestly never voted for a team captain.  My soccer coach told us our captains for the next season at our last practice each year.  Captains were expected to make sure people were staying in shape. Lots of people did track or cross country to force them too. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,667]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

He could have chosen Brunk a senior who knows what it takes to make the tourney and Race. Race has been with the team almost as long as Al.  

Brunk is a junior so he wouldn't even have been picking a senior by choosing him. And that's way too easy to say now. Nobody would have ever said this in the offseason, before Joey had ever even suited up for us. I love Brunk as much as anybody. He absolutely deserves to be a captain next year. But choosing someone who had never played a game for IU and a guy who had barely put any time in on the court (no fault of his own) could have been just as dividing as choosing a freshman or sophomore. There's no way you can say that would have been a better decision than letting the team choose who they wanted as their captains. Which by the way, the team had every right to choose Brunk and Race if they felt that was best. 

[monskisprodigy 1,814]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

I honestly never voted for a team captain.  My soccer coach told us our captains for the next season at our last practice each year.  Captains were expected to make sure people were staying in shape. Lots of people did track or cross country to force them too. 

One thing I am sure about...I was never the captain haha. 

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

7 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Brunk is a junior so he wouldn't even have been picking a senior by choosing him. And that's way too easy to say now. Nobody would have ever said this in the offseason, before Joey had ever even suited up for us. I love Brunk as much as anybody. He absolutely deserves to be a captain next year. But choosing someone who had never played a game for IU and a guy who had barely put any time in on the court (no fault of his own) could have been just as dividing as choosing a freshman or sophomore. There's no way you can say that would have been a better decision than letting the team choose who they wanted as their captains. Which by the way, the team had every right to choose Brunk and Race if they felt that was best. 

Being a captain has nothing to do about how long you’ve been wearing the uniform. It’s about running and shutting a door and getting the team back on the court because they haven’t practiced hard enough yet. 
 

And Brunk is a senior. He got a redshirt but he’s still been in college basketball as long as De’Ron and Green. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,667]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Being a captain has nothing to do about how long you’ve been wearing the uniform. It’s about running and shutting a door and getting the team back on the court because they haven’t practiced hard enough yet. 

Yeah that's part of if, but not all of it. But even if that was all it was about, you're going to say that Race was doing that last year when he wasn't even practicing for a good stretch of the season? I know the offseason counts just as much, but there's no evidence that any player was doing this more than others. You're just saying this b/c you don't like how Green and Durham have played. 

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

4 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Yeah that's part of if, but not all of it. But even if that was all it was about, you're going to say that Race was doing that last year when he wasn't even practicing for a good stretch of the season? I know the offseason counts just as much, but there's no evidence that any player was doing this more than others. You're just saying this b/c you don't like how Green and Durham have played. 

That’s literally a story about Brunk that I just posted. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,667]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That’s literally a story about Brunk that I just posted. 

I didn't see you're line about Brunk at the bottom. Yeah he's a senior school-wise, but he's a junior on this team. And not a junior that's been with the team for 3 or 4 years. And if the story about running and shutting the door is about Brunk, that's fantastic, but when did it happen? Before captains were chosen? Was anyone else vocal about it? You still included Race as a choice, was he doing that? It's still just too easy to say that Brunk should have been selected a captain at this point. It's far more based on what you've seen on the court for 22 games than it is based on that one story. 

Sorry, questioning Archie about who the captains are and how they were chosen is just a lazy argument that has no other point but having an axe to grind. The next step here is to argue Archie should be fired b/c of his choice of where to eat lunch today. I know this is this the negativity thread. But there are far more worthy axes to grind and things to question.

[MikeRoberts 6,914]

The lost opportunity is that we could have added more ‘Archie’ players through transfer, d-1/juco, grad transfers etc. the only reason we can say the seniors aren’t his is because he never added any to that class. He’s had several years to do that but didn’t and left scholarships open


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[HoosierAloha 30,024]

We still don’t have an alpha or a group of alphas. We have players that want to fuss and lay down when things go south. A reason we don’t step on anyone’s throat? We’re more concerned with hurting their feelings. I only see a few players that have even a decent attitude and fight on this team.

Regardless, it’s on Archie to either change the attitude or change the players. Call me crazy but I see a different team with Green and David gone. I see a Smith that might actually blossom and compete with Hunter. Those two could be special. We still lack guards unless Phin finally comes around from whatever has been plaguing him. I’m not sure why it seems like he can hit shots and make plays early in the game but struggles after..


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[LamarCheeks 17,914]

After reading something on another site, I listened to Dakich's interview Monday with Fischer. Apologies if this has been discussed and I'm late to the game, but I hadn't heard this (I don't live in Indiana, so don't listen to Dakich).

It really made me wonder if there isn't some meddling going on down there. And if there is, there shouldn't be. Don't know if the allusions here were to the Athletes Bill of Rights or some other type of over-involvement, but both Dakich and Fischer insinuated that Archie is being "handcuffed." 

I'm guessing people remain over-sensitized to the Knight era, when the coach grew too big and some things happened that probably shouldn't have, but if you hire a coach, you have to let him coach -- his way. Archie always struck me as a tough, hard-a$$, no-nonsense guy. So I'm surprised, too, that he doesn't seem to be disciplining players -- whether it's through cutting playing time or whatever. If you gotta drop the hammer, you need to be able to do so. You can do that without doing some of the types of things Knight did. 

Both Fisch and Dakich have been critical of Archie in the past. But in this conversation, they seemed to be in his corner. Makes me wonder just what the hell is going on there? 

Fisher: "I think there are guys on this team that can evolve to be better than average. But they've gotta grow up and get to a point where they understand their role and then perform in that role. Honestly, I'm not sure we see a lot of that right now. And I think Archie is doing a terrific job in some respects of getting these guys to understand what their roles are, but some of them may not like those roles."

Dakich: "It wouldn't be bad if this team just shut the hell up and listened. ... Sometime, you gotta check your ego and say 'Why don't I see what this guy's actually saying before anybody talks back.' "

Fisch: "You've gotta have the ability as a coach to get their attention. ... In some respects, I think Archie does his best at that. I'm just not sure he's not handcuffed in that area -- if you know what I mean." 

Dakich: "I do -- and it's crazy. You should never handcuff a guy at that level. I know exactly what you mean ..."

Fisch also said he didn't want to get into or dive too deep into the "handcuffing" aspect of things. And later on, he added: "I think this team has the ability  to be better than they are right now."

And before Fischer came on, Dakich ripped Green and to some extent, Justin, for their supposed on-court exchange. ... 

I can't help but wonder if after this season, Archie will breathe a huge sigh of relief and feel as if the weight of the world is off his shoulders because Green will be gone. I read his background story and want to like the kid, but I just can't help but think he's a royal pain in the a$$.

Interesting stuff ... 

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

39 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

I didn't see you're line about Brunk at the bottom. Yeah he's a senior school-wise, but he's a junior on this team. And not a junior that's been with the team for 3 or 4 years. And if the story about running and shutting the door is about Brunk, that's fantastic, but when did it happen? Before captains were chosen? Was anyone else vocal about it? You still included Race as a choice, was he doing that? It's still just too easy to say that Brunk should have been selected a captain at this point. It's far more based on what you've seen on the court for 22 games than it is based on that one story. 

Sorry, questioning Archie about who the captains are and how they were chosen is just a lazy argument that has no other point but having an axe to grind. The next step here is to argue Archie should be fired b/c of his choice of where to eat lunch today. I know this is this the negativity thread. But there are far more worthy axes to grind and things to question.

It’s not my job to hand hold you because you didn’t follow the team in the off-season. Yet feel completely qualified to defend what occurred during it. 
 

Our captains are not getting it done that is on Archie he is the captain of the ship. He should have known how that vote was going to go and never let it happen.  
 

He literally brought Brunk here for toughness and leadership. He knew that this team lacked it long before a vote ever took place for captains. 
 

And don’t say he couldn’t be captain because it’s his first year with the team. When your culture sucks like it did last year. The quickest way to change it is to bring in new blood/leadership. 
 

And no I have been questioning Devonte being a captain since it happened because he has been crappy selfish teammate since he got here and it seemed like a dumb move then. Didn’t need to see the result of 22 games. 
 

and yeah I said Race because unlike Devonte and Al he actually plays tough something we could use more of. He could at least lead by example if not by word.  

[NashvilleHoosier 3,667]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It’s not my job to hand hold you because you didn’t follow the team in the off-season. Yet feel completely qualified to defend what occurred during it. 
 

Our captains are not getting it done that is on Archie he is the captain of the ship. He should have known how that vote was going to go and never let it happen.  
 

He literally brought Brunk here for toughness and leadership. He knew that this team lacked it long before a vote ever took place for captains. 
 

And don’t say he couldn’t be captain because it’s his first year with the team. When your culture sucks like it did last year. The quickest way to change it is to bring in new blood/leadership. 

This is the exact response for someone with an axe to grind but not a real point to make. You're questioning a team vote for captains being on the coach. You say the captains aren't getting it done, which is further indicating that you're saying all this b/c of the 22 games you've watch, not b/c of anything that happened in the offseason when captains are chosen. Yet when it comes time to justify, you go with a "i'm not gonna hold your hand" bit. And he should have known how that vote was going to go and not let it happen? Sheesh....I mean. That alone makes it hard to take anything else seriously. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It’s not my job to hand hold you because you didn’t follow the team in the off-season. Yet feel completely qualified to defend what occurred during it.  Indiana, by most reasonable measures had a very successful off season.  I'll defend most of it.  What are you bent about?
 

Our captains are not getting it done that is on Archie he is the captain of the ship. He should have known how that vote was going to go and never let it happen.  How many teams have you been on?  Serious question.  Coaches don't choose captains.  Players do.  An under-classman wasn't going to be a captain, so the choices were Green, Davis, Durham, Smith.  Smith and Davis are quiet kids and I happen to know Durham recommended Green.  There you have it.   That's not on Archie.  Not even a little bit.  Your last comment about what should have happened is a straw man hindsight, nothing more.
 

He literally brought Brunk here for toughness and leadership. He knew that this team lacked it long before a vote ever took place for captains.  No....he literally brought Brunk here for depth in the front court,and Brunk happened to fit the toughness piece.   Archie saw first hand what it looks like to play with a 6'7" guy on the block, and needed size....especially on the defensive end.  He did not bring Brunk here to be a captain, although he WILL be next season.   Again, how many teams have you been on?  New guy is an immediate captain?  When?   Where?  You are exceptional at the straw man argument.  
 

And don’t say he couldn’t be captain because it’s his first year with the team. When your culture sucks like it did last year. The quickest way to change it is to bring in new blood/leadership.  See above.  Straw.  Man.  It doesn't work this way.  No matter how many times you say it "should," it doesn't.   We don't live in a world of "should."
 

And no I have been questioning Devonte being a captain since it happened because he has been crappy selfish teammate since he got here and it seemed like a dumb move then. Didn’t need to see the result of 22 games.  I agree with you here 100%, but I also recognize the perfect storm that led to it.
 

and yeah I said Race because unlike Devonte and Al he actually plays tough something we could use more of. He could at least lead by example if not by word.  Race is a sophomore who's played very limited minutes.  This is, again, a scenario that in the real world wouldn't happen, but very easy to retroactively say "should" have.,

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,607]

I wish we would try a guy like Frank Martin. Who I think is a good coach, but in a bad situation. He would establish some accountability and culture here for sure. We need a tough coach like him.


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But what would actually change? Offense would still suck.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,607]

It’s not my job to hand hold you because you didn’t follow the team in the off-season. Yet feel completely qualified to defend what occurred during it. 
 
Our captains are not getting it done that is on Archie he is the captain of the ship. He should have known how that vote was going to go and never let it happen.  
 
He literally brought Brunk here for toughness and leadership. He knew that this team lacked it long before a vote ever took place for captains. 
 
And don’t say he couldn’t be captain because it’s his first year with the team. When your culture sucks like it did last year. The quickest way to change it is to bring in new blood/leadership. 
 
And no I have been questioning Devonte being a captain since it happened because he has been crappy selfish teammate since he got here and it seemed like a dumb move then. Didn’t need to see the result of 22 games. 
 
and yeah I said Race because unlike Devonte and Al he actually plays tough something we could use more of. He could at least lead by example if not by word.  

Archie does have the power to strip anyone of captain status. And that should happen.


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[Alford Bailey 12,349]

33 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

After reading something on another site, I listened to Dakich's interview Monday with Fischer. Apologies if this has been discussed and I'm late to the game, but I hadn't heard this (I don't live in Indiana, so don't listen to Dakich).

It really made me wonder if there isn't some meddling going on down there. And if there is, there shouldn't be. Don't know if the allusions here were to the Athletes Bill of Rights or some other type of over-involvement, but both Dakich and Fischer insinuated that Archie is being "handcuffed." 

I'm guessing people remain over-sensitized to the Knight era, when the coach grew too big and some things happened that probably shouldn't have, but if you hire a coach, you have to let him coach -- his way. Archie always struck me as a tough, hard-a$$, no-nonsense guy. So I'm surprised, too, that he doesn't seem to be disciplining players -- whether it's through cutting playing time or whatever. If you gotta drop the hammer, you need to be able to do so. You can do that without doing some of the types of things Knight did. 

Both Fisch and Dakich have been critical of Archie in the past. But in this conversation, they seemed to be in his corner. Makes me wonder just what the hell is going on there? 

Fisher: "I think there are guys on this team that can evolve to be better than average. But they've gotta grow up and get to a point where they understand their role and then perform in that role. Honestly, I'm not sure we see a lot of that right now. And I think Archie is doing a terrific job in some respects of getting these guys to understand what their roles are, but some of them may not like those roles."

Dakich: "It wouldn't be bad if this team just shut the hell up and listened. ... Sometime, you gotta check your ego and say 'Why don't I see what this guy's actually saying before anybody talks back.' "

Fisch: "You've gotta have the ability as a coach to get their attention. ... In some respects, I think Archie does his best at that. I'm just not sure he's not handcuffed in that area -- if you know what I mean." 

Dakich: "I do -- and it's crazy. You should never handcuff a guy at that level. I know exactly what you mean ..."

Fisch also said he didn't want to get into or dive too deep into the "handcuffing" aspect of things. And later on, he added: "I think this team has the ability  to be better than they are right now."

Interesting stuff ... 

Are problems are three fold. Part Archie, part a lack of talent and part the current culture on college campuses.  Its not just an IU issue. Coaches just have to be delicate with kids now.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,607]

Are problems are three fold. Part Archie, part a lack of talent and part the current culture on college campuses.  Its not just an IU issue. Coaches just have to be delicate with kids now.

I really believe that changing the lineup and rotation along with throwing the current offense in the trash and bringing in a new one would save the season. Personally I’d ditch the defense as well and just play a basic man to man or even a nasty zone.. but Archie’s pack line is not good.


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[monskisprodigy 1,814]

8 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I really believe that changing the lineup and rotation along with throwing the current offense in the trash and bringing in a new one would save the season. Personally I’d ditch the defense as well and just play a basic man to man or even a nasty zone.. but Archie’s pack line is not good.


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Play a box and one for all I care, just throw something out there we can win consistently and at a high level with haha. 

Also...anything that doesn't require a high ball screen hedge all the way to Indianapolis.