Game Thread: 10/19 3:30PM ET Indiana at Maryland BTN

[Old Friend]

7 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Peyton Ramsey led us to the promised land. 

He made a few plays with his legs, a few nice reads and throws to Hendershot in particular, and one good deep throw to Westbrook for a TD.   True.  He also missed a few very easy throws, left a couple others short, and made several others which arrived late.   He showed every reason why he lost his job to begin with (consistency and arm strength).   He's a decent backup QB and did just enough; but he also showed why the playbook is condensed and limited with him vs. Penix.  Congratulations to him and to the team; but seeing him for who he is was pretty obvious today.  I'm not going to pick on him, but it's not objective to glorify him, either. 

[jmsgws]

6 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Idk they also let up massive plays on that final Maryland touchdown drive. It’s just not a great defense.


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We don't need a "great" defense.  We just need to NOT be bad.  :)

[johnsoniu]

I would agree but need to reign Penix in a bit.  Needs to kill a little more clock than his usual style. 
 
All too often we see our D wilt under pressure. Yet today they were able to be fresh and came up with two big turnovers. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

We are 10th in the country in time of possession. The splits when penix runs the O vs Ramsey are virtually identical.


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[Brass Cannon]

13 minutes ago, johnsoniu said:

We are 10th in the country in time of possession. The splits when penix runs the O vs Ramsey are virtually identical.


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Yesterday the longest possession Penix had was 3:05. Ramsey has 4 over 3 minutes one was 7 minutes giving the defense rest. They came up with a stop and 2 turnovers after that. 
 

Against MSU Penix did slow it down for a bit with long drives. That’s when we built a lead. When we sped it back up and cut possession time from 5 or 6 minutes to 2 or 3 is when the defense got gassed and gave up scores. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

They held them to 14 points in the final like 42 minutes. They aren’t great but having a few seconds to catch their breath sets them up for success 

Way to small of a sample to make any conclusions.


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[jk34]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yesterday the longest possession Penix had was 3:05. Ramsey has 4 over 3 minutes one was 7 minutes giving the defense rest. They came up with a stop and 2 turnovers after that. 
 

Against MSU Penix did slow it down for a bit with long drives. That’s when we built a lead. When we sped it back up and cut possession time from 5 or 6 minutes to 2 or 3 is when the defense got gassed and gave up scores. 

I believe you over use that argument. Absolutely agree that you want to use the clock, but any coach will tell you that avoiding 3 and outs are the key. 

We get who you'd prefer behind center, and that's fine, but it still baffles me how you cannot see the major differences in the two.

And I'm a Ramsey fan.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Yesterday the longest possession Penix had was 3:05. Ramsey has 4 over 3 minutes one was 7 minutes giving the defense rest. They came up with a stop and 2 turnovers after that. 
 
Against MSU Penix did slow it down for a bit with long drives. That’s when we built a lead. When we sped it back up and cut possession time from 5 or 6 minutes to 2 or 3 is when the defense got gassed and gave up scores. 

You’ll need to show an exact breakdown because overall stats do not support any of what you’re saying based on johnson’s post


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[Hoosierfan2017]

6 hours ago, Old Friend said:

He made a few plays with his legs, a few nice reads and throws to Hendershot in particular, and one good deep throw to Westbrook for a TD.   True.  He also missed a few very easy throws, left a couple others short, and made several others which arrived late.   He showed every reason why he lost his job to begin with (consistency and arm strength).   He's a decent backup QB and did just enough; but he also showed why the playbook is condensed and limited with him vs. Penix.  Congratulations to him and to the team; but seeing him for who he is was pretty obvious today.  I'm not going to pick on him, but it's not objective to glorify him, either. 

You're coming around old friend. Pretty soon we're going to see you at the tailgate rocking a #12 jersey :D

[Brass Cannon]

9 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

You’ll need to show an exact breakdown because overall stats do not support any of what you’re saying based on johnson’s post


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Maybe his stats are wrong. Because they don’t match what the box score says. Besides of course our team overall stats more closely match Ramsey. At this point I think he’s been our QB more. 
 

Penix total time of possession yesterday 8:28 average of 2:07 per possession 
 
Ranseys first 7(Last two were outliers based on field position and kneeling) were 24:52 minutes that’s an average of over 3 and a half minutes  

 

 

[Brass Cannon]

24 minutes ago, jk34 said:

I believe you over use that argument. Absolutely agree that you want to use the clock, but any coach will tell you that avoiding 3 and outs are the key. 

We get who you'd prefer behind center, and that's fine, but it still baffles me how you cannot see the major differences in the two.

And I'm a Ramsey fan.

I can see the difference. It’s not as big as people seem to think. Ramsey came into the game with a tie score and got us a win after all. 
 

You can’t just look at the offense in a vacuum. Penix looks great but his style hangs the D out to dry. Just like the Wilson era. 

[IUc2016]

You should look at how many carries Scott got once Ramsey entered the game. That is why the time of possession was much higher.

For some reason they did not run the ball until penix left the game. That has nothing to do with Penix


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[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

You should look at how many carries Scott got once Ramsey entered the game. That is why the time of possession was much higher.

For some reason they did not run the ball until penix left the game. That has nothing to do with Penix


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Whatever the cause all I said is we need to find a way to eat clock with Penix. 

[Hoosierfan222]

We scored one touchdown in the second half. That’s great that we ate clock, I’d rather score more than rely on our defense to shut down the opposing team offensively.

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan222 said:

We scored one touchdown in the second half. That’s great that we ate clock, I’d rather score more than rely on our defense to shut down the opposing team offensively.

We scored more points than the opposing team though. Which is the important part. 

[Hoosierfan222]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

We scored more points than the opposing team though. Which is the important part. 

I agree, but that has a lot to do with the eleven guys playing defense and not the quarterback play in a vacuum. Ramsey played well, I don’t want to slight him, but acting like he was some sort of savior in this game when we had one drive that netted points in the second half (not counting the drive that started on their 15) is not exactly great offense.

[Brass Cannon]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierfan222 said:

I agree, but that has a lot to do with the eleven guys playing defense and not the quarterback play in a vacuum. Ramsey played well, I don’t want to slight him, but acting like he was some sort of savior in this game when we had one drive that netted points in the second half (not counting the drive that started on their 15) is not exactly great offense.

You act like he only played the second half he led the offense to 20 points. 
 

And the defense held the opposition to 14. 
 

I’d much rather win a low scoring game than lose a shootout 

[johnsoniu]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Maybe his stats are wrong. Because they don’t match what the box score says. Besides of course our team overall stats more closely match Ramsey. At this point I think he’s been our QB more. 
 

Penix total time of possession yesterday 8:28 average of 2:07 per possession 
 
Ranseys first 7(Last two were outliers based on field position and kneeling) were 24:52 minutes that’s an average of over 3 and a half minutes  

 

 

No they don't match what yesterdays box score says, because I went back and looked at all 7 games. Over the course of the season they have produced similar TOP. Granted it's a cursory look and I didn't factor in late drives when we were up big and caliber of competition. And yes, Ramsey has been under center more than Penix on the season, but it's close.

I agree with your overall premise that we need a more ball control O to avoid putting our D under pressure all the time. Don't agree that Penix's style rivals that of the Wilson era offense in putting the D on the field an inordinate amount of time.

I'm glad we have both Penix and Ramsey, I prefer Penix but don't cringe when Ramsey comes in.

Peace and Go Hoosiers!

[Hoosierfan222]

30 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

You act like he only played the second half he led the offense to 20 points. 
 

And the defense held the opposition to 14. 
 

I’d much rather win a low scoring game than lose a shootout 

I’m not saying he played bad, but when Ramsey scored 20 points in 3 quarters compared to Penix who scored 14 in one... (should’ve been more too if Hendershot doesn’t stop that pass). This isn’t a slight on Ramsey, he’s a great back-up to have, it’s just a clear signal the offense isn’t as good with him under center in comparison to Penix.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Hoosierfan222

[BGVille Hoosierfan]

On Penix’s 4 drives, he led us to 3 redzone trips. Ramsey led us to 2 trips the rest of the game. The argument that is being made about scoring too quick and not giving the defense rest makes no sense to me. That’s basically saying our QB is too good and we’d rather have an average QB under center. That’s like saying the Colts would’ve won more Super Bowls with Flacco under center instead of Peyton Manning. I just don’t get it. Who would rather slow the game down and end a series in a punt rather than score nearly every possession??? Can you imagine a coach pitching that to a program as he’s trying to get hired on?? At the end of the day, the defense comes down to personnel and schemes and that’s on the coaching staff. Do you not think these kids are in the highest physical shape of their lives and can’t handle playing at high levels for significant minutes. Maryland scored on their first offensive possession...I guess the defense was “too rested” on that drive. So to credit the 2 defensive turnovers to Ramsey is insane. Maryland literally has the worst pass D in the B1G and possibly one of the top 20 worst in the nation and we virtually had no passing attack the entire second half and our bubble screen game was shot bc we couldn’t get the ball to the receivers quick enough out in space. Happy Ramsey stuck around and I really like the kid and he’s tough as nails but this argument that he’s somehow a better fit than Penix will never make sense to me. I’d be will to bet that Penix (IF he can stay healthy) will play on Sunday’s and Ramsey wouldn’t even sniff an XFL roster. Great kid, tough kid, but in no way is he ever the better option for us.


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[Hoosierfan222]

1 minute ago, jbell833 said:

On Penix’s 4 drives, he led us to 3 redzone trips. Ramsey led us to 2 trips the rest of the game. The argument that is being made about scoring too quick and not giving the defense rest makes no sense to me. That’s basically saying our QB is too good and we’d rather have an average QB under center. That’s like saying the Colts would’ve won more Super Bowls with Flacco under center instead of Peyton Manning. I just don’t get it. Who would rather slow the game down and end a series in a punt rather than score nearly every possession??? Can you imagine a coach pitching that to a program as he’s trying to get hired on?? At the end of the day, the defense comes down to personnel and schemes and that’s on the coaching staff. Do you not think these kids are in the highest physical shape of their lives and can’t handle playing at high levels for significant minutes. Maryland scored on their first offensive possession...I guess the defense was “too rested” on that drive. So to credit the 2 defensive turnovers to Ramsey is insane. Maryland literally has the worst pass D in the B1G and possibly one of the top 20 worst in the nation and we virtually had no passing attack the entire second half and our bubble screen game was shot bc we couldn’t get the ball to the receivers quick enough out in space. Happy Ramsey stuck around and I really like the kid and he’s tough as nails but this argument that he’s somehow a better fit than Penix will never make sense to me. I’d be will to bet that Penix (IF he can stay healthy) will play on Sunday’s and Ramsey wouldn’t even sniff an XFL roster. Great kid, tough kid, but in no way is he ever the better option for us.


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As others have pointed out, Stevie Scott running the football is a big factor in that TOP stat. Ultimately time of possession is a meaningless stat unless you’re either A) putting up points to match it (we weren’t in the second half) or B) visibly wearing the opposing team down (which isn’t clear because we weren’t having success moving the football even late in the game)