So some concerns I’m having...

[Josh 12,996]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

^^Whaaa...?? ^^

• That IU team that started Freddie McSwain at center, walk-on Zach at SF, and Devonte at PG last year and went 9-9 in the B1G had "superior talent?" 
• Those teams he put into the tourney year after year at Dayton (and went as far as the elite 8) without ever having a top 100 recruit had some "superior talent?"

 

 

Yes, we had superior talent to Fort Wayne, Indiana State, Rutgers, and Northwestern.  Far superior.

[Brass Cannon 25,176]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

I've seen it a thousand times.  People here excuse the losing because of our roster.  Nevermind that our roster is much more talented than teams that we're losing to.  We need better players?  How many all conference players do we need to beat Nebraska at home?  To quit losing to Northwestern?

I don’t think they are calling into question the talent of the roster but the fit for the style. 

[Josh 12,996]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t think they are calling into question the talent of the roster but the fit for the style. 

Then change the dang style!  Win the dang games!  A good coach can adjust in order to win games.

[Stuhoo 86,307]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

Yes, we had superior talent to Fort Wayne, Indiana State, Rutgers, and Northwestern.  Far superior.

 

To use a 50 cent word - that is incredibly myopic.  I hope you're not implying that superior talent should always win.

Superior talent, excellent coaching, team chemistry, roster composition, experience, team health, and numerous other factors collectively increase winning; even all of those factors don't guarantee it on any given night.

Last year we were sorely lacking in talent - especially at the 3-5 spots, experience, team health, and effective roster composition. With those deficiencies we lost 15 games, including some true stink bombs, but we also won 9 B1G games.

Sounds like reality to me.

 

[TheWatShot 15,047]

27 minutes ago, Josh said:

I wanted a coach who could take 5 random players and beat another team through strong coaching and knowledge of basketball.  Even Archie's supporters admit that he must have far superior talent to win a game.  That's not even coaching, that's just recruiting and praying.

There's a difference between saying he needs better players than what he has now, and saying he needs "far superior talent to win a game."

[coonhounds 10,244]

Robert and al need to shoot far more threes per game give them total green light to open up the inside for morgan and drives for romeo. Play hard d for at least 35 minutes a game for craps sake. Our program is almost completely trashed time to change stuff up and start winning.

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[mdn82 25,967]

Then change the dang style!  Win the dang games!  A good coach can adjust in order to win games.

Josh, would you really stray away from what got you the job due to kids you inherited (and got the other coach fired so his style wasn’t working either), or stick with what got you there while building a foundation? I can only imagine the hate you are going through to be posting this much, but it is what it is. We need to win more. He isn’t going to change how he coaches. No coach would change their whole identity to go from 18 to say 20 wins.


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[Stuhoo 86,307]

1 minute ago, Joe DeLow said:

Superior should always win. It just won’t. 

 

Lol

 

[Uspshoosier 51,607]

Superior should always win. It just won’t. On paper, yes. In the real world, no.

I think it is sad that we won 9 B1G games last year and may not do it this year with two extra tries.


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Going 9-11 in this years B1G could be considered more impressive the going 9-9 in last years terrible 4 teams make the tourney B1G


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[monskisprodigy 2,223]

With all the focus on the current losing streak, I deciding to do a little digging. I went back to Knight's first season, and noted any losing streaks greater than 4 games, to see how often it had occurred from the 71-72 season through the 17-18 season. In total, it has occurred 15 times (Two seasons with multiple 4+ game streaks in the same season), with the largest losing streaks occurring under Crean, at 11 games. As we are all painfully aware, we had losing streaks of both 10 & 11 games in his first year, 11 games in year number two and 6 & 9 games in year three. Mike Davis saw four total seasons with a losing streak of 4 games or more, with the highest being his 04-05 Season at 6 games. Knight had a total of 4 seasons with losing streaks of 4 or greater games, with the largest occurring in the 71-72 season (5 games). 

Anyways, thought it was interesting, and I had some downtime during lunch.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by monskisprodigy

[Josh 12,996]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

To use a 50 cent word - that is incredibly myopic.  I hope you're not implying that superior talent should always win.

Superior talent, excellent coaching, team chemistry, roster composition, experience, team health, and numerous other factors collectively increase winning; even all of those factors don't guarantee it on any given night.

Last year we were sorely lacking in talent - especially at the 3-5 spots, experience, team health, and effective roster composition. With those deficiencies we lost 15 games, including some true stink bombs, but we also won 9 B1G games.

Sounds like reality to me.

 

Sometimes superior talent doesn't win.  But when it consistently loses, you look at the coach.

[Old Friend 8,575]

2 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I would certainly put Kansas on that list. I get what you are saying, but Duke has done everything they have done in the last 30 years. They really weren’t only hiring from within until the last 20-25 years. So I can’t go back 60-70 years with them. 2 out of the 5 Bluebloods you have stated and I would clearly add Kansas due to their 3 titles and overall history hire assistants from within. Only UNC has done that mostly regularly longer than 30 years. So I guess I am not really sure of the overall significance of two teams doing it. Syracuse does it as well. I wouldn’t consider them a Blueblood or think that has elevated them. I think Duke over the last 30 years has got 2 really solid players as assistants and a third ok one that have all been head coaches. Knight really didn’t have any that would be worthy of being here. Just not sure we have many viable options as assistant under CAM that is from the Knight tree. I don’t really consider Fife since he played one year under Knight. Lewis? He doesn’t come up often as a recruiter or in game coaching assistant so I will be honest and say I don’t know where his role would be. I just don’t see where a net positive is in bringing in a person that their upper hand on a job is they played at IU twenty years ago. IU today is very different than 20 years ago. Hell RMK would tell you IU in the 90s was nothing like the 70s. We are at a point we have to build a new legacy much like Knight did after Branch. Too much of a gap between eras for Lewis or Fife to tell a player how great it was when they were there. Lewis at the end of the Knight era and Fife mainly playing for Mike Davis. I am not sure they understand the IU basketball you are imagining either OF.


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Yes!  Of course Kansas is also on this list.  Mea culpa.  Brain cramp.

Fife gets the Indiana culture.  Doesn't matter to me how long he played for Knight.   I heard Lewis on the radio last week and was ready to play for him or send all 3 of my sons to play for him.  He'll be a head coach.   There's no need to tell kids how great it is to play at Indiana.  Not the point.   Indiana is either a special basketball school with high expectations and a reputation for playing a certain way, or it isn't.   There is no "new legacy."   How's that working at UCLA?   Indiana has a built in culture.  This is the state school in the basketball capital of the world, and we have kids who can't shoot and don't give effort.  That's bull $hit as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care at all if some disagree.  We're either special or we aren't; and if we aren't, our expectations for hanging "banner #6" should be no higher than those of Nebraska, Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, etc.   Personally?  I have no interest in that.

[mdn82 25,967]

Yes!  Of course Kansas is also on this list.  Mea culpa.  Brain cramp.
Fife gets the Indiana culture.  Doesn't matter to me how long he played for Knight.   I heard Lewis on the radio last week and was ready to play for him or send all 3 of my sons to play for him.  He'll be a head coach.   There's no need to tell kids how great it is to play at Indiana.  Not the point.   Indiana is either a special basketball school with high expectations and a reputation for playing a certain way, or it isn't.   There is no "new legacy."   How's that working at UCLA?   Indiana has a built in culture.  This is the state school in the basketball capital of the world, and we have kids who can't shoot and don't give effort.  That's bull $hit as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care at all if some disagree.  We're either special or we aren't; and if we aren't, our expectations for hanging "banner #6" should be no higher than those of Nebraska, Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, etc.   Personally?  I have no interest in that.

I agree mostly. I don’t put as much credence in the Indiana thing as you, but I get why you do. The shooting thing is getting me more than anything. That’s sacrilegious imo. Like a New Yorker is supposed to be gritty and fiery. An Indiana kid has to be able to shoot. We have missed more open shots than any team I can remember.


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[Old Friend 8,575]

2 hours ago, mdn82 said:

Josh, would you really stray away from what got you the job due to kids you inherited (and got the other coach fired so his style wasn’t working either), or stick with what got you there while building a foundation? I can only imagine the hate you are going through to be posting this much, but it is what it is. We need to win more. He isn’t going to change how he coaches. No coach would change their whole identity to go from 18 to say 20 wins.


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At Dayton, Miller had lots of positionless players.  Lots of length.  Won with defense.  His 2015-16 team that went 25-8 (his best overall record) shot 34.7% from the 3 point line and 46% from the floor overall.   Only .668 from the FT line.   Defensively, they allowed just .404 from the floor and somehow, amazingly, opponents shot WORSE from the FT line than Dayton did that season.

His 2013-14 Elite 8 team had incredibly balanced scoring.  4 kids over 9.5PPG and nobody over 12.2.   4 more kids averaged 3.4 PPG or higher.  That team shot a little better, but allowed a little better, too.   The 4 main scorers were between 6'4" and 6'7".   My point is, I'm not sure that same style will win at Indiana.  This isn't Dayton and it isn't the Atlantic 10.

 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Sometimes superior talent doesn't win.  But when it consistently loses, you look at the coach.

We’ve lost 7 games, of which only two or three were to debatably worse teams. What in the hell is going on here.

 

 

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[mdn82 25,967]

To help Josh out, I would answer yes to change what you’re doing. Because your job as a coach is to win. Your job as coach is to put your players in position to be successful. And the difference between 18 and 20 wins could be a tourney birth.

 

 

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Short term gain for long term health is never the answer. One of the biggest issues with Crean was he was so damn unpredictable people couldn’t get in groove. Never have I seen a coach switch their philosophies for short term gain. Principals or reads? Sometimes. Based on opponent. But never their their offense. Change sets? Some. But changing your offense will never outside of your couch on your PlayStation.

 

 

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[Josh 12,996]

1 minute ago, mdn82 said:

Short term gain for long term health is never the answer. One of the biggest issues with Crean was he was so damn unpredictable people couldn’t get in groove. Never have I seen a coach switch their philosophies for short term gain. Principals or reads? Sometimes. Based on opponent. But never their their offense. Change sets? Some. But changing your offense will never outside of your couch on your PlayStation.

 

 

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Yeah, we can't switch our offense to run with UNLV.  Except Coach Knight did, and we won.  I know that's just one example, but good coaches can and should adjust their gameplan to win.

[AKHoosier 7,378]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

Yeah, we can't switch our offense to run with UNLV.  Except Coach Knight did, and we won.  I know that's just one example, but good coaches can and should adjust their gameplan to win.

That team also had a roster that none of our current starters would have gotten any playing time over.

Talent matters.

[Josh 12,996]

7 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

That team also had a roster that none of our current starters would have gotten any playing time over.

Talent matters.

What if you're playing against a less talented team?  Then coaching matters.  But we still lose.

[ap2345 10,481]

What if you're playing against a less talented team?  Then coaching matters.  But we still lose.

IU hasn’t been more talented than anyone they’ve played since their injuries started happening.


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