IUBB vs Fort Wayne - 12/18 @ 8:00 E.T.

[coonhounds 10,555]

Who cares if its archie fault or the players are lazy unfocused athletes or if it is creans fault. Just hope we can fix it in the future. I have faith archie knows what he is doing because he has had kids playing at a high level rather consistently in the past. Be patient i think is the best thing for everyone

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[yogisballin 2,433]

So Crean couldn't get these guys to act engaged and now it seems Archie is struggling with same group.  I'd like to hear what adustments a coach can make to get a group of guys to play any different than they have for 2 different coaches already.

I would play those that I get the most effort from. Whether it be lasko, msb, etc. I’d get my point across! For those of you worried about this hurting our recruiting? **** that, one recruit will not make/break this program.


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[bigrod 3,182]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Yes. So as a coach, how does Archie fix that? Does he just hope the players figure it out? Does he blame Tom Crean? Or does he take the reigns and make in game adjustments?

I don't understand how he gets no blame.

I had said yesterday that you don't lose to IPFW by 20 on your home court and not shoulder some of the blame. That's coaches, players, and whoever scheduled that game as well.

I was thinking today that this is a little like when Davis took over, but in opposite ways. I always felt Davis was able to take the players Knight had drilled the fundamentals into and allow them to play more loose, and that was how he had success (until those players were gone).

This is the same, but instead you are taking players that are used to playing a loose style, and throwing a bunch of rules at them. Once they get tired, they seem to revert back to what they know best.

Some say that CAM needs to adjust to his players, and I get that. But I also get that he is trying to install a system that he thinks will eventually be worth the growing pains. It's like driving a car - when your new to it, you have to think about everything. After you've driven a few years, you don't know how you even ended up at work half the time.

I have friends who say that teams are too perimeter oriented to make the pack-line work, and I get that. But I also think that we are just not playing it well yet. I don't see teams putting in 17 threes against Virginia.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

13 minutes ago, Josh said:

If he did point it out during the game, it didn't work. So he didn't make his point clear enough.

I don't know what to think. Because you're right, if that was the case it was a terrible hire. If it's a case of him trying to get them to listen and they didn't, there needs to be repercussions. Based upon playing time and results, I'm not sure he did.

Yeah, and I think this is where we go back to the question regarding personnel. Who does he put out there? McSwain who has his fair share of mistakes? Smith who can't seem to finish a layup? Moore who apparently doesn't know the defense? I really think it's not as clear cut as we all hope it would be. The bench is a good tool when you have others who can step up without ruining your chance of winning. I think if we used the bench as punishment during this game the outcome may have been worse.

[SlamaJamaSisley 3,615]

I'm with Martha (I think) ...especially the "trust the process"!  #InArchWeTrust

Martha the Mop Lady (@TheMopLady):

If you’re still upset about last night, you should be. However, keep in mind this is a roster formed by a coach going into his 10th season at IU, a roster that lost 3 players to the NBA from an NIT team. Level the expectations & trust the process. #iubb

[Old Friend 8,667]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

 

 

Yes. So as a coach, how does Archie fix that? Does he just hope the players figure it out? Does he blame Tom Crean? Or does he take the reigns and make in game adjustments?

I don't understand how he gets no blame.

 

 

It's not as simple as making in game adjustments.   The kids he has on the floor save Durham have all been used to a certain way of doing things for 3 years; and playing at a tempo completely different than Miller wants.   This is a completely new system; and much of it is mentally 180* from what they're used to.  And I promise this style is harder and not as much fun as Crean's was.

48 hours after a big win, a lazy effort has nothing to do with coaching.  

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,425]

The Fort Wayne radio guy who does prep work with Fort Wayne for IPFW. He said he knew the game plan and it worked to a T. Everything. He said Archie was prepared for some of the things but couldn't get the offense to adjust to the adjustments IPFW made.

Ultimately, I think it boils down to hitting shots. Basketball is a lot about the ability to hit shots.

Our team doesn't hit many shots and doesn't particularly guard against jump shooters very well. That is a recipe for a lot of losses.


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[Josh 13,232]

It's not as simple as making in game adjustments.   The kids he has on the floor save Durham have all been used to a certain way of doing things for 3 years; and playing at a tempo completely different than Miller wants.   This is a completely new system; and much of it is mentally 180* from what they're used to.  And I promise this style is harder and not as much fun as Crean's was.
48 hours after a big win, a lazy effort has nothing to do with coaching.  

You see, I think it is that simple. If doubling the point is consistently killing us, change that strategy. If the players aren't listening, bench them. As the coach, that is up to you.

Ipfw was coming off a 48 hour win too. That excuse does nothing for me.

[HoosierCoop 4,159]

Here is my list of WTF team members:

McSwain - I know he isn't the greatest player to begin with but he has drug everyone down that is on the floor with him.

Smith - He had a great start to the season but has disappeared, looks lost, and hasn't seen the floor.

Newkirk - I thought he might make the most of his Senior year but is being outplayed by our Freshman.

Offense - I loved the flow of our offense.  Where has it gone???

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,425]

Offense - I loved the flow of our offense.  Where has it gone???

Seems to me like we have no one that can hit a jumper open or not. We don't really have anyone that can beat his man 1v1 and create looks for others or get to the rim.

Hard to work offense with unreliable pieces that seem to really struggle shooting.

On that note.....why is our shooting so horrid?


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[Stuhoo 89,564]

11 minutes ago, HoosierCoop said:

Here is my list of WTF team members:

McSwain - I know he isn't the greatest player to begin with but he has drug everyone down that is on the floor with him.

Smith - He had a great start to the season but has disappeared, looks lost, and hasn't seen the floor.

Newkirk - I thought he might make the most of his Senior year but is being outplayed by our Freshman.

Offense - I loved the flow of our offense.  Where has it gone???

 

 Freddie McSwain has turned into an equally-muscly, short, academically less successful, un-funny Tijan Jobe.

 

[mdn82 26,344]

Seems to me like we have no one that can hit a jumper open or not. We don't really have anyone that can beat his man 1v1 and create looks for others or get to the rim.

Hard to work offense with unreliable pieces that seem to really struggle shooting.

On that note.....why is our shooting so horrid?


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I am equally disappointed in our shooting. We have got really good looks this season consistently. IMO it is probably a repetition thing. They aren’t putting up the shots after practice. Either way to me this is the most disappointing thing this season so far. Before someone brings it up we don’t have a Yogi or Jordy, but we also have shooters to be respectable. Not as putrid as we are.


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[Class of '66 Old Fart 90,754]

9 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

On that note.....why is our shooting so horrid?

 

Maybe we should send the team over to our School of Optometry?

[cappymo14 2,276]

Every coach will say that rather than throw his kids under the bus.  He had 48 hours.  It's not on him.  It's on the kids.  You know that as well as I do. All you had to do was watch the game,  It had nothing to do with game plan or scheme.   No college coach should coach effort.

Welcome to the era of a coach keeping his guys out of the line of fire. Refreshing. 

Yes, very much. It is refreshing isn’t it? See, the thing is, I don’t need to assign blame. I think if we start looking for someone to blame after a bad loss like that, we will be blaming people all day, which is what we are doing now. Blaming Crean, blaming Archie, blaming Newkirk, blaming Johnson, blaming recruiting. No. I wanted to watch that presser and have someone take responsibility. I wanted to get an explanation of what went wrong and I wanted to look at his body language and know it was not just business as usual. I wanted to look into his eyes and hear 1. That he does indeed know what the problems are and 2. He has a plan, and the will to correct them. I think we got that. I think we deserved that because they quit. Plain and simple, they quit. I watched and listened to CAM very closely Monday night. What did I see? It’s not going to be “business as usual” in Bloomington any more.

 

 

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[coonhounds 10,555]

Question. What is the worst iu loss in your years of being a fan? I will put this one as my top. Blown out at assembly hall to fortwayne. I remember when we first lost to butler i thought that was bad lol

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[Trish 14,477]

1 minute ago, coonhounds said:

Question. What is the worst iu loss in your years of being a fan? I will put this one as my top. Blown out at assembly hall to fortwayne. I remember when we first lost to butler i thought that was bad lol

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Syracuse. I honestly think that should be everyones. (of the past five years at least haha)

 

Two top five draft picks, two all americans, a somewhat talented roster. All because we didn't know what a 2-3 zone was. Ruined my love for IU basketball for the past few years. I didn't even watch games until last year when I was team tank.

Now I don't miss an IU game. Archie brought my love back for IU. 

[cappymo14 2,276]

Question. What is the worst iu loss in your years of being a fan? I will put this one as my top. Blown out at assembly hall to fortwayne. I remember when we first lost to butler i thought that was bad lol

 

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I don’t remember when it was, maybe 94-95? One of RMK’s teams lost a game to a 10 loss Minnesota team by 50 points. Like 105-54. Minny was bottom of BigTen and Indiana was either leading or in 2nd. Was only our 5th loss of the year if I remember right. I think we were 16-4 when it happened.

 

 

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[coonhounds 10,555]

I don’t remember when it was, maybe 94-95? One of RMK’s teams lost a game to a 10 loss Minnesota team by 50 points. Like 105-54. Minny was bottom of BigTen and Indiana was either leading or in 2nd. Was only our 5th loss of the year if I remember right. I think we were 16-4 when it happened.
 
 
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Think we were 1 in the country? I remember the game well but it was a road game knight did bench the starters and it was a big ten team so that is why i didnt put it ahead of this loss

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[coonhounds 10,555]

 

Syracuse. I honestly think that should be everyones. (of the past five years at least haha)

 

Two top five draft picks, two all americans, a somewhat talented roster. All because we didn't know what a 2-3 zone was. Ruined my love for IU basketball for the past few years. I didn't even watch games until last year when I was team tank.

Now I don't miss an IU game. Archie brought my love back for IU. 

I agree that was a tough loss but crean had that team tanking before that game. We escaped temple barely to that game. I put the peperdine loss with guyton ahead of that Syracuse debacle lol

 

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[mdn82 26,344]

Question. What is the worst iu loss in your years of being a fan? I will put this one as my top. Blown out at assembly hall to fortwayne. I remember when we first lost to butler i thought that was bad lol

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Losing to Minnesota in ‘94 by 50 when we were a decently high ranked team. They scored over 100 on us.


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