Article: Indiana Hoosiers Basketball Is A Sleeping Giant, Waiting To Be Awoken

[indianaranger 108]

Like i said until he lands recruits it is concern.Crean got a pass and that did not work out well

[mdn82 25,510]

Like i said until he lands recruits it is concern.Crean got a pass and that did not work out well

Crean got a pass initially because of the dumpster fire he walked into. Nobody is giving Archie a 2-3 year pass. But not even 3 months, not through July evaluations, not even 1 practice or Official Visit and we are having this discussion. Some of you guys need to have a little more realistic expectations. We aren't Duke moving on from Coach K. We are Indiana 30 years removed from our last title and just fired Tom Crean. This might have always taken longer than a couple of months from the get go. Just maybe.


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[HoosierCoop 3,927]

I think first and foremost Archie has stopped the recruitment bleeding.  That had to happen immediately.

In the past, I believe scholarships were handed out like a change belt.  Any C listed player that even talked to Crean was given an offer.

All that has changed and the concentration is on certain players.  It takes time for culture to change but it will be worth the wait.

We will take a couple of punches in the meantime, but we will also land a couple ourselves.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

26 minutes ago, HoosierCoop said:

I think first and foremost Archie has stopped the recruitment bleeding.  That had to happen immediately.

In the past, I believe scholarships were handed out like a change belt.  Any C listed player that even talked to Crean was given an offer.

All that has changed and the concentration is on certain players.  It takes time for culture to change but it will be worth the wait.

We will take a couple of punches in the meantime, but we will also land a couple ourselves.

Right! We can't have it both ways;1. Hand out offers like candy and take the 1st 3 star AND 2. Keep offers coveted and wait for the top players to decide.

We've missed on what, 2? Were they even our top targets at their position? 

The quicker an '18 of quality decides, probably the less likely he'll pick Indiana, because often relationships take time.

I'm sure Archie could get someone like Austin Bouche pretty quickly, if it'll make any of you guys feel better.

[Gahoosierfan 272]

18 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Yep

Indiana's administration did this to itself.  It decided Mike Davis was the right guy to replace Bob Knight, and we have never recovered.  They gave the Indiana job to a first time college head coach.  They gave it to a guy from the south who lacked self confidence, who lacked an understanding of the culture here, and who had no idea how to recruit locally.  However, he was given a permanent contract and IU never did a national search following his interim season.  HUGE mistake.

A 3-week run when his team (Knight's team) shot well, and made it to the final game, in large part due to the leadership of the players..not the coach.  The coach, however, was given the credit, AND an extension.  Huge mistake #2..

Help was on the way....and Davis was exposed for exactly what he was at the time.  Ill-prepared to lead a program like Indiana.  Enter Adam Herbert.  Insisting that we replace Davis with a minority; so instead of "the best available candidate" at the time, and there are debates as to whether that was (who was on the University plane, contract in hand) John Belein, Kevin Stallings, or someone else, Indiana hires Kelvin Sampson.   We don't need to rehash this.

Then, IU hires a "name."  A guy with a resume almost identical to Davis', but with  better public persona.  He coached Dwayne Wade and married a Harbaugh.  (Perhaps you've heard)   His other credentials were sketchy, but he was touted as an up and comer for reasons I still don't understand.   He turns out to be a one hit wonder.  He has teams every few years that do well, but he can't (and never has) win/won consistently.   Nor can he build teams....he builds collections of talent.  Nor did he do well locally. His successes were followed by dramatic under-achievement; and Indiana finally decides enough is enough.  Wises up.

Where are we now?   Nobody knows, yet.  We need to succeed recruiting locally.  We need to upgrade talent.  We need to maintain,rather than have an occasional success.  We need to be Indiana again.  Brass Cannon has been saying it for years.  I've been annoyingly preaching it.   We HAVE the recruiting base.  (We do not need to go get 3* kids from Texas, Alabama, New Jersey, etc)   We HAVE the resources.  We HAVE the facilities.  We HAVE the culture and tradition.   We HAVE the fan base and support.  What we needed was a great hire and the right coach following 17 years of the wrong ones.  Is Archie the right guy?  Time will tell.

I totally agree. 

[Dalton26 16,892]

19 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Yep

Indiana's administration did this to itself.  It decided Mike Davis was the right guy to replace Bob Knight, and we have never recovered.  They gave the Indiana job to a first time college head coach.  They gave it to a guy from the south who lacked self confidence, who lacked an understanding of the culture here, and who had no idea how to recruit locally.  However, he was given a permanent contract and IU never did a national search following his interim season.  HUGE mistake.

A 3-week run when his team (Knight's team) shot well, and made it to the final game, in large part due to the leadership of the players..not the coach.  The coach, however, was given the credit, AND an extension.  Huge mistake #2..

Help was on the way....and Davis was exposed for exactly what he was at the time.  Ill-prepared to lead a program like Indiana.  Enter Adam Herbert.  Insisting that we replace Davis with a minority; so instead of "the best available candidate" at the time, and there are debates as to whether that was (who was on the University plane, contract in hand) John Belein, Kevin Stallings, or someone else, Indiana hires Kelvin Sampson.   We don't need to rehash this.

Then, IU hires a "name."  A guy with a resume almost identical to Davis', but with  better public persona.  He coached Dwayne Wade and married a Harbaugh.  (Perhaps you've heard)   His other credentials were sketchy, but he was touted as an up and comer for reasons I still don't understand.   He turns out to be a one hit wonder.  He has teams every few years that do well, but he can't (and never has) win/won consistently.   Nor can he build teams....he builds collections of talent.  Nor did he do well locally. His successes were followed by dramatic under-achievement; and Indiana finally decides enough is enough.  Wises up.

Where are we now?   Nobody knows, yet.  We need to succeed recruiting locally.  We need to upgrade talent.  We need to maintain,rather than have an occasional success.  We need to be Indiana again.  Brass Cannon has been saying it for years.  I've been annoyingly preaching it.   We HAVE the recruiting base.  (We do not need to go get 3* kids from Texas, Alabama, New Jersey, etc)   We HAVE the resources.  We HAVE the facilities.  We HAVE the culture and tradition.   We HAVE the fan base and support.  What we needed was a great hire and the right coach following 17 years of the wrong ones.  Is Archie the right guy?  Time will tell.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

Right! We can't have it both ways;1. Hand out offers like candy and take the 1st 3 star AND 2. Keep offers coveted and wait for the top players to decide.

We've missed on what, 2? Were they even our top targets at their position? 

The quicker an '18 of quality decides, probably the less likely he'll pick Indiana, because often relationships take time.

I'm sure Archie could get someone like Austin Bouche pretty quickly, if it'll make any of you guys feel better.

Stirring the pot... lol.

[Lebowski 2,744]

The pressure of the job from top to bottom has got to be incredible.  I hope this next chapter is a culture change that embraces the pressure, grabs it by the neck, chokes it out of breath and forces it to tap out.  This program needs that attitude, from top to bottom.  

[JSHoosier 20,263]

I've said for a while myself that this program is a sleeping giant, everything was there except for a coach (although I would've replaced AH instead of renovated, different discussion).  At one time I truly thought Crean had awakened it, nope the giant just started for a second then swatted him off like a fly and rolled over.  We need the coach that'll flip the bed over and give the giant no choice but to wake up.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

10 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I've said for a while myself that this program is a sleeping giant, everything was there except for a coach (although I would've replaced AH instead of renovated, different discussion).  At one time I truly thought Crean had awakened it, nope the giant just started for a second then swatted him off like a fly and rolled over.  We need the coach that'll flip the bed over and give the giant no choice but to wake up.

Yeah, when we were #1 preseason and the movement hadn't quite made it to campus, but was the incoming class, it sure felt like it was awakening.

[OliviaPope40 6,520]

So I haven't been delusional my whole entire childhood of being an IU fan. I just hope Archie lives up to the expectations. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

23 hours ago, indianaranger said:

Like i said until he lands recruits it is concern.Crean got a pass and that did not work out well

Only if you're the negative type.   He already convinced 3 kids to stay.   Not that I;m in love with any of them yet, but those were 3 commitments; 2 of which were from kids who initially asked to be asked out of their letters of intent.    When the 2018 class starts to deplete of talent and we haven't landed anyone, THEN you should be concerned.  Until then, you should be.....patient.   Rome was not built in a day; and he's heavy on a lot of very good players.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,460]

24 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Only if you're the negative type.   He already convinced 3 kids to stay.   Not that I;m in love with any of them yet, but those were 3 commitments; 2 of which were from kids who initially asked to be asked out of their letters of intent.    When the 2018 class starts to deplete of talent and we haven't landed anyone, THEN you should be concerned.  Until then, you should be.....patient.   Rome was not built in a day; and he's heavy on a lot of very good players.

4 kids to stay! Collin was on the way to his white picket fence and 2.5 kids before Archie came along. 

[recker222000 1,010]

I've said for a while myself that this program is a sleeping giant, everything was there except for a coach (although I would've replaced AH instead of renovated, different discussion).  At one time I truly thought Crean had awakened it, nope the giant just started for a second then swatted him off like a fly and rolled over.  We need the coach that'll flip the bed over and give the giant no choice but to wake up.

After syracuse i knew he had awakened nothing. Hopefullt Archie can do it.

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[Old Friend 8,389]

12 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

4 kids to stay! Collin was on the way to his white picket fence and 2.5 kids before Archie came along. 

Indeed.   Great point.   He'll be terrific, I think......needs time to build is culture and his program.  

[mdn82 25,510]

4 kids to stay! Collin was on the way to his white picket fence and 2.5 kids before Archie came along. 

Honestly getting Colin to come back was more important than Rojo. I know Rojo will put up better stats, but Colin will put players in the right spot or discuss where a mistake was made. You need those types of players that are an extension of a coach on a good team.


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[JSHoosier 20,263]

25 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Honestly getting Colin to come back was more important than Rojo. I know Rojo will put up better stats, but Colin will put players in the right spot or discuss where a mistake was made. You need those types of players that are an extension of a coach on a good team.


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Hey, Crean had some of those.  Granted they were helter skelter and many times just contributed to the problems on the court.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Honestly getting Colin to come back was more important than Rojo. I know Rojo will put up better stats, but Colin will put players in the right spot or discuss where a mistake was made. You need those types of players that are an extension of a coach on a good team.


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We need more than Colin's voice this coming season. We need the other players to fall in line. Johnson doesn't seem like the kid who is going to rip into a teammate but he's a quiet leader. Those two, along with Morgan, need to step up. I'm not so sure about Newkirk. He seemed like a kid listening to a thousand different voices last season... That will be the core of the leaders. Eventually, Davis, Green, and Durham will be leaders.

I'm hoping there is a culture shift this season. If we have a less than stellar year but the right players are doing the right things we'll be alright going forward.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,775]

2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

 I'm not so sure about Newkirk. He seemed like a kid listening to a thousand different voices last season... 

Honestly, I've wondered if they weren't all listening to too many voices because we didn't have a truly focused coaching staff.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Leadership is an undervalued ability for athletes in certain sports. I believe we have several players that are being good followers that will emerge as leaders as they become upperclassmen.

Davis seems more of the quiet leader that will pull a guard or wing aside and give instructions how to get him the ball. As an upperclassman I can see him having a stronger voice.

Green is an interesting case because of position and playing time. I really hope he is being groomed to take over the PG position in the future. If he does I could see him becoming an extension of CAM on the floor.

Durham feels like a natural born leader regardless of where he plays. He'll be the guy that bails you out of a bad situation around campus and then rip into you when you're in the clear. He might not be the most heralded recruit but he has a desire to win.

These are all observations from afar. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

Watford was a quiet leader but had his moments. When he went nuts at the end of the first half vs. VCU in the round of 32 game I knew we would win. He rarely got heated but when he did it meant something.