2018 General Recruiting Thread

[Hoosierfan2017 21,421]

8 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Only 25? I'm thinking with 6 open scholarships he would be close to offering triple digits.

He'd find a way to end up oversigned too. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,744]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He'd find a way to end up oversigned too. 

[hoosierpap 14,300]

On 7/6/2017 at 1:20 AM, Yogi's Picnic Basket said:

Musa Jallow is now an OSU favorite. Archie HAS to start making something happen. Everyone that followed recruiting last year knew I was one that always said don't overreact to us not getting anyone.

This year is different, 40% of top 100 are already gone and July will take probably another 20%. Were still in a lot of kids, but our "guys" are either gone or now have new leaders.

Garland and Romeo are BIG, but we need a PG. Carey, Duke & Phinisee are still out there and were in good shape, but we need that first domino to fall.

I really thought Bazley would end up ours honestly. We had momentum, but one kid that can make a difference next year and this year for recruiting is Dort. We need to get him on campus soon and wrap it up.

BTW, am I in no way saying Archie isn't doing a good job or isn't the right guy. I believe in him 100%. I just think with IU it is different than the other schools with new coaches. Hopefully things start to go our way soon.

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I'm pretty much with you on the overall feeling here. I, too, last fall was downplaying the anxiety on these boards with regards to recruiting. This year is different for a few reasons. 

1) New coach

2) Very small sample of how Archie can recruit at this level (thinking UA)

3) Unusual amount of top 100 kids (though, I've said a million times it's a numbers game and dominoes fall your way)

4) large expected class

 

These next three weeks (July 12 – 16: (2) July 19– 23: (3) July 26– 30) are crucial, imo, for Archie. And let me be clear, I'm not freaking out- and I see no reason anyone should. IU was just identifying major impact players like TB and TW at this stage...that said, you can't rely on that. My biggest angst involves where IU is at with the kids they're recruiting. Something needs to change here, someone needs to break for IU and get the ball rolling.  I think IU could (and should) press Phinisee for a commitment. Kids begin to recruit others, and I don't care that he's had a lousy spring/summer. Phinisee solves your PG problem in the long term, while not hindering your efforts to address the same problem in the short term. You need to fill 5/6 spots. No brainer for me. 

One thing that I've heard from two AAU coaches is just that Archie is different. Different in relation to Crean, that is. Things are planned, coaches are informed- kids know when he is there for them. Basically, he's typical in his approach to recruiting where Crean was not. One thing that worries me is that I was told he doesn't flatter these kids. It's more, " we're giving you the opportunity to play for Indiana" type of deal. Frankly, that's the way it should be, imo, but is that an effective approach with the current generation? Time will tell, I suppose.

So I've been out and about the last few months but am interested to see who everyone is wanting in the 2018 class?

Dort is seriously interested. I'm not a huge fan.

Race Thompson seems to be winding down his recruitment. I don't know a ton about him outside of Dad went to Minn but they have a similar commit for the class. I think IU needs to land one of Thompson or Jerome Hunter or identify and really press another big during this eval period.

Langford- I hear a different story on every day of the week it seems. I truly trust no one in NA lol. Saw someone mention backing out would be the smart move if not for perception. I whole-heartedly disagree. You put everything you've got into this one until Tim Langford or Jim Shannon calls you and says to stop.

PG- As I said, take Phinisee. It doesn't hurt while recruiting guys like Garland, Duke, Carey- but I do think it's important to get someone who can handle the role next year- and that is not Phinisee, imo.

Then you've got your wings to go along w Dort. The Damezi Anderson's of the world. Idk, there are a ton of them and I assume IU ends up with one we know of and one we don't. 

[Stuhoo 80,852]

20 minutes ago, hoosierpap said:

I'm pretty much with you on the overall feeling here. I, too, last fall was downplaying the anxiety on these boards with regards to recruiting. This year is different for a few reasons. 

1) New coach

2) Very small sample of how Archie can recruit at this level (thinking UA)

3) Unusual amount of top 100 kids (though, I've said a million times it's a numbers game and dominoes fall your way)

4) large expected class

 

These next three weeks (July 12 – 16: (2) July 19– 23: (3) July 26– 30) are crucial, imo, for Archie. And let me be clear, I'm not freaking out- and I see no reason anyone should. IU was just identifying major impact players like TB and TW at this stage...that said, you can't rely on that. My biggest angst involves where IU is at with the kids they're recruiting. Something needs to change here, someone needs to break for IU and get the ball rolling.  I think IU could (and should) press Phinisee for a commitment. Kids begin to recruit others, and I don't care that he's had a lousy spring/summer. Phinisee solves your PG problem in the long term, while not hindering your efforts to address the same problem in the short term. You need to fill 5/6 spots. No brainer for me. 

One thing that I've heard from two AAU coaches is just that Archie is different. Different in relation to Crean, that is. Things are planned, coaches are informed- kids know when he is there for them. Basically, he's typical in his approach to recruiting where Crean was not. One thing that worries me is that I was told he doesn't flatter these kids. It's more, " we're giving you the opportunity to play for Indiana" type of deal. Frankly, that's the way it should be, imo, but is that an effective approach with the current generation? Time will tell, I suppose.

So I've been out and about the last few months but am interested to see who everyone is wanting in the 2018 class?

Dort is seriously interested. I'm not a huge fan.

Race Thompson seems to be winding down his recruitment. I don't know a ton about him outside of Dad went to Minn but they have a similar commit for the class. I think IU needs to land one of Thompson or Jerome Hunter or identify and really press another big during this eval period.

Langford- I hear a different story on every day of the week it seems. I truly trust no one in NA lol. Saw someone mention backing out would be the smart move if not for perception. I whole-heartedly disagree. You put everything you've got into this one until Tim Langford or Jim Shannon calls you and says to stop.

PG- As I said, take Phinisee. It doesn't hurt while recruiting guys like Garland, Duke, Carey- but I do think it's important to get someone who can handle the role next year- and that is not Phinisee, imo.

Then you've got your wings to go along w Dort. The Dazmani Anderson's of the world. Idk, there are a ton of them and I assume IU ends up with one we know of and one we don't. 

 

Great read, pap.

Who do I want? I know we're probably not currently leading with him, but we're in the mix and I want Jerome Hunter. Seems like he has the combination of athleticism and skill that will project well for both immediate help of some sort, and for a long-term/stay in school building block. Rivals has their new rankings out and he's up to #47 nationally. He can shoot it. 

I (unlike some others) am also a Phinisee fan. He's apparently had a mediocre summer, but he's had some nagging injuries. From film I've seen, he's got such good court awareness. Love that quality in a guard. At worst he's PJ Thompson at Purdoooo. And that's a more than reasonable "at worst."

Beyond that...Damezi? Absolutely. Can defend and can shoot it. Could be a great junior/senior year starter.

Carey and Duke: big-time athletes at guard. Either would be great, but Dort? He's probably got an NBA-ready body, but I'm not sure how he helps us win championships while he's in college. 

Race? I guess so - low downside ... but, I don't see a low upside - heady big as being as impactful as a similarly situated guard like Phinisee vis-a-vis team leadership. 

Garland and Romeo? If we get one of them (and I know it's not especially likely) everything else we add will be gravy. Put one of those two in a class of four and the class is a huge success with pretty much any other options.

I will also say; the way you describe Archie's personality is a nice fit for the Langford family and Romeo. 

 

[goonaha 2,972]

Pap and Stuhoo, what don't you like about Dort? Seems like he's a really explosive and strong athlete who excels at getting to the rim. If Archie likes him, that means he can see that athleticism translating into being a really good defender at the college level. 

[Stuhoo 80,852]

9 minutes ago, goonaha said:

Pap and Stuhoo, what don't you like about Dort? Seems like he's a really explosive and strong athlete who excels at getting to the rim. If Archie likes him, that means he can see that athleticism translating into being a really good defender at the college level. 

 

Agreed that he's built like a Mack Truck only quicker, but I saw game video (admittedly, that's a limited knowledge base)  and heard him interviewed. Seemed like a nice kid and all, but his jump shot is messy, his skill level is 'just okay', and he's not long at all.

Most of all...when he was interviewed he kinda seemed like a mercenary club player that was looking at US college ball like a temporary rest stop on the way to the next stop.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,378]

Yes I think you will see more offers come this month. Jake Forrester is a name to keep an eye on. He says he's been hearing from IU a lot lately. 

I Watched 2 games with Forrester last year. I was far from impressed. He was tall. He wasn't necessarily athletic or impactful. The better players on the court controlled the game. He was just out there. Grabbed a few rebounds. I suppose I see Juwan Morgan as his upper ceiling. I like Juwan Morgan, don't get me wrong at all, he's still improving and could really be a huge factor with a reliable shot. What I'm saying is Forrester looked like a lesser version of a Juwan Morgan to me.


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[goonaha 2,972]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I saw video and heard him interviewed. Seemed like a nice kid and all, but his jump shot is messy, his skill level is 'just okay', and he's - not long at all.

Most of all...when he was interviewed he kinda seemed like a mercenary club player that was looking at US college ball like a temporary rest stop on the way to the next stop.

 

Not long at all? He's a 6'4 guard and he doesn't look like he had T-rex arms from what I can tell. The only interview I've seen is the DraftExpress one from Adidas EuroCamp and he wasn't asked about recruiting so I couldn't infer "mercenary" from it. No offense, but by your logic we shouldn't be recruiting Garland or Romeo then. Those two are also going to treat college as a 1-2 year rest stop on their way to the pros. 

[Stuhoo 80,852]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I Watched 2 games with Forrester last year. I was far from impressed. He was tall. He wasn't necessarily athletic or impactful. The better players on the court controlled the game. He was just out there. Grabbed a few rebounds. I suppose I see Juwan Morgan as his upper ceiling. I like Juwan Morgan, don't get me wrong at all, he's still improving and could really be a huge factor with a reliable shot. What I'm saying is Forrester looked like a lesser version of a Juwan Morgan to me.


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He's played alongside Bamba and Reddish, so he's never been the alpha (or even beta) dog on his team. Don't love that. He'd be a long-term project for sure.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,378]

 
Agreed that he's built like a Mack Truck only quicker, but I saw game video (admittedly, that's a limited knowledge base)  and heard him interviewed. Seemed like a nice kid and all, but his jump shot is messy, his skill level is 'just okay', and he's not long at all.
Most of all...when he was interviewed he kinda seemed like a mercenary club player that was looking at US college ball like a temporary rest stop on the way to the next stop.
 

Most kids top 20 are thinking this way. Just have to convince them that making winning plays and team plays are valuable to getting them their dream.

Heck, even OG (super chill, good dude) jumped at his opportunity. Very rare to find a Miles Bridges (that one still baffles me tremendously). A coach needs to identify which kids are coachable and use that NBA fire to fuel the flame.


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[Stuhoo 80,852]

1 minute ago, goonaha said:

Not long at all? He's a 6'4 guard and he doesn't look like he had T-rex arms from what I can tell. The only interview I've seen is the DraftExpress one from Adidas EuroCamp and he wasn't asked about recruiting so I couldn't infer "mercenary" from it. No offense, but by your logic we shouldn't be recruiting Garland or Romeo then. Those two are also going to treat college as a 1-2 year rest stop on their way to the pros. 

 

I think of him more like a 6'4" power forward. A quick one, but a power forward nonetheless.

I guess if I'm gonna have a player who thinks he's a one (or two) and done on the team, I see way more appeal of doing it with a player that truly merits the designation, and with a player that is local (or grew up in a family of Hoosier fans like Garland) and will be far more likely to keep ties to the program. I want an Eric Gordon one-and-done, not a Noah Vonleh one-and done.

 

[hoosierpap 14,300]

5 minutes ago, goonaha said:

Pap and Stuhoo, what don't you like about Dort? Seems like he's a really explosive and strong athlete who excels at getting to the rim. If Archie likes him, that means he can see that athleticism translating into being a really good defender at the college level. 

To be clear, I'd welcome the kid to IU if that is what he decides. He may be a good defender, but I don't know that. My concern is on the offensive end. His shot needs work. He relies on his athleticism and body to get him to the rim. That said, he does seem to have a great sense of control on his drives and around the basket. Elite in transition. But, my concern, is players like this that rely on being more athletic and just bigger, to get to the rim and how it translates to the next level, where you're  in like the 60th percentile as opposed to the 90/95th.

Maybe he figures it out, idk. But the skill level isn't what is driving that ranking. I see a Rawle Alkins without skill. But, remember how I started this post...

[goonaha 2,972]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

 

I think of him more like a 6'4" power forward. A quick one, but a power forward nonetheless.

I guess if I'm gonna have a player who thinks he's a one (or two) and done on the team, I see way more appeal of doing it with a player that truly merits the designation, and with a player that is local (or grew up in a family of Hoosier fans like Garland) and will be far more likely to keep ties to the program. I want an Eric Gordon one-and-done, not a Noah Vonleh one-and done.

 

The handles I saw were not that of a power forward. Point me to the interview where he came across as a mercenary because I just didn't get that vibe at all. You designating him as a one or two and done and comparing him to Noah Vonleh is seemingly coming out of thin air.

[Chris007 44,066]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I Watched 2 games with Forrester last year. I was far from impressed. He was tall. He wasn't necessarily athletic or impactful. The better players on the court controlled the game. He was just out there. Grabbed a few rebounds. I suppose I see Juwan Morgan as his upper ceiling. I like Juwan Morgan, don't get me wrong at all, he's still improving and could really be a huge factor with a reliable shot. What I'm saying is Forrester looked like a lesser version of a Juwan Morgan to me.


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I have not seen him play at all. Just know that he has been contacted by the staff more frequently here lately after losing out on a few other guys. 

As far as Phinisee is concerned I really believe the staff will wait on Garland and Duke before taking him. 

Thompson and Anderson should both be deciding in the next month. If you get Thompson it will also help for next years recruiting of Hurt. 

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

 

^^Better way of stating it^^

Or: Take a random set of four and it'd be an incredibly successful first class.

 

Sure, but that wasn't my point. It was that the "worst" at each position would still be pretty good.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,378]

I have not seen him play at all. Just know that he has been contacted by the staff more frequently here lately after losing out on a few other guys. 
As far as Phinisee is concerned I really believe the staff will wait on Garland and Duke before taking him. 
Thompson and Anderson should both be deciding in the next month. If you get Thompson it will also help for next years recruiting of Hurt. 

Yes, appreciated. That is why I had a mini flip out when we missed on Bazley and Johns. Both better than Forrester and Thompson, then on down the list.

Anderson is very intriguing. He is "liking" some IU tweets. His size and shooting translate. Thompson is solid. Helping to get Hurt would be huge but that very rarely really works. Have to get guys that you really want. Crean did some of that stuff, which is part of the reason why we saw increased transfers.


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[Stuhoo 80,852]

5 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Yes, appreciated. That is why I had a mini flip out when we missed on Bazley and Johns. Both better than Forrester and Thompson, then on down the list.

Anderson is very intriguing. He is "liking" some IU tweets. His size and shooting translate. Thompson is solid. Helping to get Hurt would be huge but that very rarely really works. Have to get guys that you really want. Crean did some of that stuff, which is part of the reason why we saw increased transfers.


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Sigh...Bazley. He's gonna be really, really good.

 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,744]

1 hour ago, hoosierpap said:

 

PG- As I said, take Phinisee. It doesn't hurt while recruiting guys like Garland, Duke, Carey- but I do think it's important to get someone who can handle the role next year- and that is not Phinisee, imo.

 

As always, your thoughts and insight are most appreciated.   I'm confused (nothing new for an old fart) with your thoughts on Phinisee.  You said to take him that it doesn't hurt but in the same sentence that (point guard) is not Phinisee.  So why should we push him to commit if you don't feel he can handle that role?

[hoosierpap 14,300]

6 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

As always, your thoughts and insight are most appreciated.   I'm confused (nothing new for an old fart) with your thoughts on Phinisee.  You said to take him that it doesn't hurt but in the same sentence that (point guard) is not Phinisee.  So why should we push him to commit if you don't feel he can handle that role?

A freshmen PG handling that role is rare. You're going to need a guy like Garland to do that. Phinisee can develop into that, but I don't see him being that in year one. That's why I'm saying you take him for the future, but still pursue a guy who can help next year. 

[Stuhoo 80,852]

1 hour ago, goonaha said:

 

 

I may be overthinking why I'm not a fan. BUT:

But, Luegentz Dort went from Montreal suburbs to attend high school at Arlington Country Day in Jacksonville, with 350 students spread out over 13 classes. From the Jacksonville Times:

"Arlington Country Day has been called a basketball factory. With a major national sponsor in adidas and multiple state championships across two organizations, it’s difficult to dispute the school’s credentials on the court. One of the two most successful basketball programs in Jacksonville-area history also has a problem.

It can’t guarantee players or their parents that they’ll be allowed to play in college because of an ongoing rift with the NCAA about curriculum at the school.

It happened twice this year, when two of ACD’s major college basketball signees, Dante Buford and Brandone Francis, failed to be cleared by the NCAA’s Eligibility Center. Francis’ father has claimed the school used his son for athletic gain and threatened legal action.

This has happened before at ACD in other sports such as football, where at least one player lost a scholarship to a Football Bowl Subdivision program in 2013 because of questions about courses he took at ACD years earlier.

Over the past two months, the Times-Union spoke with nearly two dozen parents, educators and coaches at ACD. Parents of players in several sports say the K-through-12 school has failed their children and then refused to help them sort out the mess with the NCAA."

 

However, that was "so two years ago!" Because after that, the Arlington Day Academy coach and Luegentz moved to another primarily basketball high school named 'The Conrad Academy':

 

 

The Conrad Academy shares its space with a local church named Centro Familia International. It barely exists.

But that was "so last year!".

Now, this year he has transferred to Calusa Prep in the Miami area. Calusa has a total of 252 students from K-12, which equals an average of 19 per year. And, their roster shows 15 of those 19 are on the basketball team for Luegentz's senior class (I have no idea who the other four are - lol).

___________________________________________________________________________________

Not saying we shouldn't take him. Not saying he's a bad kid. Not saying it won't work out. BUT, compared to a kid like David Duke who's going to an academically excellent prep school near his home? Compared to Phinisee at Ben Davis? Compared to Jerome Hunter at Pickering or Damezi at Riley or Garland or Romeo or Race, or etc, etc?