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jdailey1981

TOM CREAN FIRED

By jdailey1981, in Indiana Men's Basketball

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Jeff_Boy_Ardee    1,311

Jeff_Boy_Ardee
Posted

I think people underestimate how difficult the tournament can be to win a title. You need to have great players, great coaching, great chemistry, all clicking at the right time. There's no recipe to throw together and out pops a title. What I want is consistency. If you are consistently making the tournament and winning some games you out yourself in a position to make that title run. I tank that's what we all want. Obviously the number one goal is a title, but it's much more difficult to win one when you're not consistent. I don't know if it's fair, for lack of a better term, to pass on a coach just because they didn't win it all.

I love the back and forth this board brings, everyone brings valid points to both sides of the topic. I found it interesting to blindly look at some tourney finishes of some coaches for the last 5 seasons and then look who they belonged to. There's always more to the story than just the finish. Apologize ahead of time for the long post. But here's an example:

Coach A:
15/16 - Rd 32
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - FF
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach B:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - S16
13/14 - NIT
12/13 - None
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach C:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - E8
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach D:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - E8
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 NIT

Coach E:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - FF
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach F:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Champ
13/14 - Rd 64
12/13 - E8
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach G:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Rd 64
13/14 - None
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach H:
15/16 - Runner Up
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - E8

Coach I:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - Rd 32
13/14 - E8
12/13 - none
11/12 NIT



Coach A - Marshall
Coach B - Bob Huggins
Coach C - Mark Few
Coach D - Sean Miller
Coach E - Izzo
Coach F - Coach K
Coach G - Crean
Coach H - Roy Williams
Coach I - Archie Miller

Now that I've typed all that out I don't really know what my point was but I didn't want to delete it. Obviously we all have our opinions as to why these coaches did or didn't do better this year or the next. Sorry for the long post, I'll retire for a couple days.

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Hoosierfan2017    20,935

Hoosierfan2017
Posted
1 minute ago, Jeff_Boy_Ardee said:

I think people underestimate how difficult the tournament can be to win a title. You need to have great players, great coaching, great chemistry, all clicking at the right time. There's no recipe to throw together and out pops a title. What I want is consistency. If you are consistently making the tournament and winning some games you out yourself in a position to make that title run. I tank that's what we all want. Obviously the number one goal is a title, but it's much more difficult to win one when you're not consistent. I don't know if it's fair, for lack of a better term, to pass on a coach just because they didn't win it all.

I love the back and forth this board brings, everyone brings valid points to both sides of the topic. I found it interesting to blindly look at some tourney finishes of some coaches for the last 5 seasons and then look who they belonged to. There's always more to the story than just the finish. Apologize ahead of time for the long post. But here's an example:

Coach A:
15/16 - Rd 32
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - FF
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach B:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - S16
13/14 - NIT
12/13 - None
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach C:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - E8
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - Rd 32

Coach D:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - E8
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 NIT

Coach E:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - FF
13/14 - E8
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach F:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Champ
13/14 - Rd 64
12/13 - E8
11/12 - Rd 64

Coach G:
15/16 - S16
14/15 - Rd 64
13/14 - None
12/13 - S16
11/12 - S16

Coach H:
15/16 - Runner Up
14/15 - S16
13/14 - Rd 32
12/13 - Rd 32
11/12 - E8

Coach I:
15/16 - Rd 64
14/15 - Rd 32
13/14 - E8
12/13 - none
11/12 NIT



Coach A - Marshall
Coach B - Bob Huggins
Coach C - Mark Few
Coach D - Sean Miller
Coach E - Izzo
Coach F - Coach K
Coach G - Crean
Coach H - Roy Williams
Coach I - Archie Miller

Now that I've typed all that out I don't really know what my point was but I didn't want to delete it. Obviously we all have our opinions as to why these coaches did or didn't do better this year or the next. Sorry for the long post, I'll retire for a couple days.

My biggest problem with Crean's lack of tournament success here isn't really the fact we haven't made it past the Sweet 16, it's how we've looked in the process. We've looked inept a lot of the time. No coach wins all of his tournament games. Coach K, Izzo, Calipari, Pitino, etc. all lose in the tourney, but with those guys on the sideline you always feel like your team has a chance to win because of your coach. With Crean in the tournament I have no confidence when we're up against a team as good or better than us. 

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Jeff_Boy_Ardee    1,311

Jeff_Boy_Ardee
Posted
My biggest problem with Crean's lack of tournament success here isn't really the fact we haven't made it past the Sweet 16, it's how we've looked in the process. We've looked inept a lot of the time. No coach wins all of his tournament games. Coach K, Izzo, Calipari, Pitino, etc. all lose in the tourney, but with those guys on the sideline you always feel like your team has a chance to win because of your coach. With Crean in the tournament I have no confidence when we're up against a team as good or better than us. 


I agree with you. I think my point is looking at the record is one thing but looking at the season and coach as a whole changes things. Archie looks piss pour on the above but a lot of people like him and I can see why, I think he's good also. You could argue Marshall underachieved but his teams, for the most part, were never out of it before it began. I always felt like they had a chance to knock off a better team.

I think I'm just so ready for Crean to be gone I'm looking for positives in every possible candidate and defending them for no reason. Lord please help us.
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Hoosierfan2017    20,935

Hoosierfan2017
Posted
13 minutes ago, Hoosier Guy said:

100% yes. When Crean's IU teams have reached the S16, they have looked completely inept in those games. You need an elite coach to feel like you have a chance in every single tournament game against elite competition. Where I partially disagree is that it absolutely matters to me that IU hasn't made it past the S16. That's one of the main reasons he should be gone. We know that is his ceiling at IU and that's simply not good enough

Oh it definitely bothers me that we haven't made it past the sweet 16. I'm just saying that if we had been competitive in those games, actually looked like we had chances to win, and just came up a little short then I would feel a little differently about Crean's ability to get it done in the postseason. Nothing in Crean's history here makes me think he can string a few neutral site wins together and get us deep in the tournament. Plus our weak scheduling screws us on seeding which just makes it even harder. 

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recker222000    1,010

recker222000
Posted
Who is iuwins0708? Some random jack wagon or somebody who is somewhat in the know? If iu wins the big ten tourney this year then i am convinced we are cursed

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Lol we would have to win five in a row. Not happening.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

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Hoosier Guy    7,518

Hoosier Guy
Posted
16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Oh it definitely bothers me that we haven't made it past the sweet 16. I'm just saying that if we had been competitive in those games, actually looked like we had chances to win, and just came up a little short then I would feel a little differently about Crean's ability to get it done in the postseason. Nothing in Crean's history here makes me think he can string a few neutral site wins together and get us deep in the tournament. Plus our weak scheduling screws us on seeding which just makes it even harder. 

Yes the scheduling just absolutely infuriates me. There is no reason IU should be playing such a low rated SOS schedule year in and year out. Any idiot should know that it definitely plays a factor in the tournament seeding

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Yogi's Picnic Basket    5,004

Yogi's Picnic Basket
Posted
 

No argument from me. Marshall is my 1 and Archie is my 2 (I don't consider Donovan realistic). I'd be extremely happy with either. I don't know the exact numbers with strength of schedule for Marshall at WSU and Winthrop vs. what Crean had at Marquette, or what Archie has had at Dayton. I'll take your word for it. No way of knowing if Marshall would have had the same success in the A10, the old C-USA, or if Crean would have been successful in Marshall's situation.

 

Each Marshall and Archie have their strengths and weaknesses. I see Marshall as a coach that's not going to get out-coached and will have his team ready to play night in and night out. He's a natural and has a commanding presence on the sideline. The question with him is how high is his ceiling, and can he recruit at a high enough level to compete for a national championship? Marshall has a high floor, he would have us in the top four in the B1G each year. But could he get us over the hump? I could see a Gary Williams-type career for him at Bloomington.

 

I see Archie as having an extremely high ceiling. I think Marshall would have us up and running faster, but Archie has the higher ceiling and has not peaked. No doubt that Archie in time would become an elite recruiter at Indiana. Higher risk than Marshall, but the potential is to get us back on par with UNC, UK, Duke and Kansas.

 

Either guy would bring better defense to B-town so I'd be happy with that.

 

 

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Nicely said. I agree with everything. We can talk about the competition and it is a factor to throw out but we have no real clue of what each would do. I think Marshall is a step above Crean I honestly just dont know how much, but at this point a new face is a breath of fresh air regardless and I would not mind Marshall one bit. Personally I would just make a couple calls before him. For some reason I think he goes to Illinois. Not over us but I can see it opening before and him taking it not knowing our situation if it even came down to it. Who knows neither may not even be candidates for the administration. Funnest part about it is not knowing and having convos about this guy and that guy.

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