TOM CREAN FIRED

[mdn82 25,510]

This has been mentioned many times.  I've said it myself several times that Crean has gone past the sweet 16 exactly once in his career.  Not good enough.  This is part of the pattern of his doing just enough.  I think everyone's on the same page.   I think many are more optimistic and supportive now; but not totally sold.   That's certainly where I am.

This

[Bobman1 2,909]

IU played in 3 tournaments this year and pooped the bed in each of them. For me it's not about getting beat by a hot UNC team but the fact that IU was even in that bracket with that seed. All they had to do was win 1 or 2 games in the BTT and they are a 3 seed with a lot better path.

For whatever reason Crean struggles with this. While he deserves credit for getting IU to this point, he also deserves credit for not being able to get any team but one (Marquette) past it either.

Folks we as fans (or maybe just myself) might just have to accept that this might just be his ceiling. Crean's abilities might just be "middle of the road". If the administration is fine with this, there's just not much we can do. Unfortunately as more time passes the more we lose the people who remember what it was for IU to be great and the more new fans IU gains have no idea what that was like. For ALOT of fans the best tournament run they have seen was 2002. That's scary. We are slowly eroding away into mediocrity.

We haven't "pooped the bed" in all 3 tournaments. I personally don't feel, that beating the fifth most popular pick to win it all, then losing to the 3rd most popular pick to win it all, is a failure. Some might argue that being apart of the final 16 and not the elite 8, is a failure, but I believe this was a good season. You say it's not about getting beat by a hot UNC, that's what happened in the third tournament. You could say we pooped the bed in 2 tournaments. But we did NOT poop the bed in the NCAA tournament. Just my honest opinion, don't mean to rant.

[coonhounds 8,768]

Slowly? Where have you been since 1995

Clearly we have struggled since 95 but never felt as hopeless as I do understand crean. We had a stretch of bad tourneys at the end of bobs time but I always felt we had a chance and was respected over that time. We made a final in early 2002. Skip to Sampson and I felt iu was back right away. Crean started with a decimated program but for sure by now should have had a better tournament run. He has had chances but needs to capitalize real soon

[Uspshoosier 44,946]

Hell I was admiring jumping 2 seeds in the Tournament with 1 win in BTT.

Committee surely would of jumped them 2 seeds for beating a last 4 in team. Sarcasm font

[Bittersince87 209]

IU played in 3 tournaments this year and pooped the bed in each of them. For me it's not about getting beat by a hot UNC team but the fact that IU was even in that bracket with that seed. All they had to do was win 1 or 2 games in the BTT and they are a 3 seed with a lot better path.

For whatever reason Crean struggles with this. While he deserves credit for getting IU to this point, he also deserves credit for not being able to get any team but one (Marquette) past it either.

Folks we as fans (or maybe just myself) might just have to accept that this might just be his ceiling. Crean's abilities might just be "middle of the road". If the administration is fine with this, there's just not much we can do. Unfortunately as more time passes the more we lose the people who remember what it was for IU to be great and the more new fans IU gains have no idea what that was like. For ALOT of fans the best tournament run they have seen was 2002. That's scary. We are slowly eroding away into mediocrity.

I lived in New York and saw a very strong St. John's program wither away to nothing. I'm seeing the same tendencies with the iu fan base. I think a majority of fans are settling and waiting for a great coach to magically appear ( it won't happen until we release the coach and give the candidate the hard offer (aka Michigan Football ). It is what it is, but when coach Crean said " it's Indiana" and this is what you expected well so be it. I've said my peace and I promise to all of you that I'll no longer broach the subject until next season. I just hope we don't become another St. John's .

[Uspshoosier 44,946]

Clearly we have struggled since 95 but never felt as hopeless as I do understand crean. We had a stretch of bad tourneys at the end of bobs time but I always felt we had a chance and was respected over that time. We made a final in early 2002. Skip to Sampson and I felt iu was back right away. Crean started with a decimated program but for sure by now should have had a better tournament run. He has had chances but needs to capitalize real soon

I don't know I was feeling pretty low after 5 straight losses in 1st weekend of the tournament heading into the tournament game against Pepperdine. I kinda of expected a loss and ended up getting a 20 point blow out loss

[JSHoosier 19,775]

2 minutes ago, Bittersince87 said:

I lived in New York and saw a very strong St. John's program wither away to nothing. I'm seeing the same tendencies with the iu fan base. I think a majority of fans are settling and waiting for a great coach to magically appear ( it won't happen until we release the coach and give the candidate the hard offer (aka Michigan Football ). It is what it is, but when coach Crean said " it's Indiana" and this is what you expected well so be it. I've said my peace and I promise to all of you that I'll no longer broach the subject until next season. I just hope we don't become another St. John's .

Yeah, we're seeing a lot of "until someone better is available" and while I get the thought we're not going to get a great coach by sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting for one to call us.  We have to say enough is enough, and go and get them.  UK wanted Cal, they went and got him.  Alabama football hadn't been Alabama football for a while, but then they had enough and identified who they wanted and went after Saban.

[mdn82 25,510]

Clearly we have struggled since 95 but never felt as hopeless as I do understand crean. We had a stretch of bad tourneys at the end of bobs time but I always felt we had a chance and was respected over that time. We made a final in early 2002. Skip to Sampson and I felt iu was back right away. Crean started with a decimated program but for sure by now should have had a better tournament run. He has had chances but needs to capitalize real soon

You felt better under Davis than Crean? I can honestly say I have felt from a purely coaching standpoint we have done nothing but improve since. I feel this last 5 year stretch has been our best 5 year stretch since the late 80s early 90s. Guess I don't get where all this hopeless talk comes from? Born and raised Hoosier fan since the early 80s and some of the fans just have a really skewed sense of what makes teams a success anymore. This isn't the 60s where the UCLA Bruins just show up and win. If one tournament truly makes or breaks some of the people's season here I don't see why the brings such highs and lows. It just seems like the goalposts keep getting adjusted to feed the frustration of a loss. We need to improve in the tournament. Those are the nature of IU. At this point? Like it or not we have improved. 3 out of 5 years in the sweet 16. That's improvement from where we have been the last 25 years. Those are also facts. The last 5 years have absolutely been an improvement of any 5 year stretch over the last 25 years. We need to continue to improve upon that to get to where we want. Every IU fan would agree with that. The difference between me and some in here? Some of you feel as though this is me settling. I personally say this is me watching over 30 years of basketball and seeing the improvements over the last 25. This isn't a video game. We can't reset our program every time our arbitrary goals aren't met. If that's the case every team in America is looking for a new coach every year sans one. The only team in America I have seen reboot after some success was UCLA in my lifetime. Even they had a ton of internal issues. Hasn't really worked out for them.

[Uspshoosier 44,946]

You felt better under Davis than Crean? I can honestly say I have felt from a purely coaching standpoint we have done nothing but improve since. I feel this last 5 year stretch has been our best 5 year stretch since the late 80s early 90s. Guess I don't get where all this hopeless talk comes from? Born and raised Hoosier fan since the early 80s and some of the fans just have a really skewed sense of what makes teams a success anymore. This isn't the 60s where the UCLA Bruins just show up and win. If one tournament truly makes or breaks some of the people's season here I don't see why the brings such highs and lows. It just seems like the goalposts keep getting adjusted to feed the frustration of a loss. We need to improve in the tournament. Those are the nature of IU. At this point? Like it or not we have improved. 3 out of 5 years in the sweet 16. That's improvement from where we have been the last 25 years. Those are also facts. The last 5 years have absolutely been an improvement of any 5 year stretch over the last 25 years. We need to continue to improve upon that to get to where we want. Every IU fan would agree with that. The difference between me and some in here? Some of you feel as though this is me settling. I personally say this is me watching over 30 years of basketball and seeing the improvements over the last 25. This isn't a video game. We can't reset our program every time our arbitrary goals aren't met. If that's the case every team in America is looking for a new coach every year sans one. The only team in America I have seen reboot after some success was UCLA in my lifetime. Even they had a ton of internal issues. Hasn't really worked out for them.

Well put I think me and you have the same view on what has been going on with the indiana program since the early 90's

[pumpfake 3,930]

4 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Just pointing out that there will be more disappointment than success in the tournament. I saw a tweet last night that said Self had tied Coach K with the most tournament losses as a higher seed. They've both consistently been seeded high in a lot of tournaments, so their success sort of skews that stat, but Crean has had 5 shots at the tournament here so far. Give it time.

Indeed.  We've had better IU teams that didn't get to a final four than some that actually won the title - the best team doesn't always win.  In fact, getting knocked out when you really think you're a contender is more disheartening than losing as a 5 seed.  The question is how much time?

[theriverpilot 5,589]

I have to be honest, the late 90s was a rough time for me as an IU fan. IU was a very mediocre team and teams like Pepperdine, Colorado, Boston College, and Kent St proved that during tournament time. And although I loved watching that 2002 run , I can't think of any other real tournament success in the 2000s.

I've been watching IU basketball and a fan since 1980. I've seen some great seasons and games, and I've seen some inexplicable losses. But our peak for my time was the early 90s teams, and that team never made it to a championship game.

With all of that said, I think IU basketball is currently in good hands. There's only one coach I'd want to do anything crazy for and that coach isn't showing any signs of leaving his current position. Making a move for anyone else out there right now, in my opinion, would be a lateral move. I'd rather ride it out with Crean.

[mdn82 25,510]

I have to be honest, the late 90s was a rough time for me as an IU fan. IU was a very mediocre team and teams like Pepperdine, Colorado, Boston College, and Kent St proved that during tournament time. And although I loved watching that 2002 run , I can't think of any other real tournament success in the 2000s.

I've been watching IU basketball and a fan since 1980. I've seen some great seasons and games, and I've seen some inexplicable losses. But our peak for my time was the early 90s teams, and that team never made it to a championship game.

With all of that said, I think IU basketball is currently in good hands. There's only one coach I'd want to do anything crazy for and that coach isn't showing any signs of leaving his current position. Making a move for anyone else out there right now, in my opinion, would be a lateral move. I'd rather ride it out with Crean.

This. It's not just about waiting for someone better. It's more about the ultimate game changer. You could have a top 10 coach and Brad Stevens comes around and you jump for him. It's hypothetical. I would currently trade any coach for Stevens due to age and how good he will be.

[JSHoosier 19,775]

I want Stevens as much as anyone, but it won't happen if we sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for him to call.  We have to say that's who we want, and we have to do what it takes to get him.  Playing it safe will not get us anywhere, and we'll be left sitting around while Stevens is at a place that did pursue him and did what it took to get him.

Hypothetical situation.  What if you have to open up the coaching position to have a chance at bringing Stevens home?  Do you do it?  Do you fire Crean knowing you could strike out but you could hit it out of the park too?

[mdn82 25,510]

I want Stevens as much as anyone, but it won't happen if we sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for him to call.  We have to say that's who we want, and we have to do what it takes to get him.  Playing it safe will not get us anywhere, and we'll be left sitting around while Stevens is at a place that did pursue him and did what it took to get him.

Hypothetical situation.  What if you have to open up the coaching position to have a chance at bringing Stevens home?  Do you do it?  Do you fire Crean knowing you could strike out but you could hit it out of the park too?

Then at this point I would say no. I wouldn't open this position at this point hoping Stevens says, "that's all I needed". Cause that won't happen. That basically tells Stevens or any other coach if you don't win a title within five years you will be fired. No other program operates that way. So why take a chance? It makes our program look as unstable as some of our fans view it.

[Bittersince87 209]

Then at this point I would say no. I wouldn't open this position at this point hoping Stevens says, "that's all I needed". Cause that won't happen. That basically tells Stevens or any other coach if you don't win a title within five years you will be fired. No other program operates that way. So why take a chance? It makes our program look as unstable as some of our fans view it.

Five years I thought coach Crean had 8?

[mdn82 25,510]

Five years I thought coach Crean had 8?

I thought he walked in under death penalty circumstances? No?

[Bittersince87 209]

I thought he walked in under death penalty circumstances? No?

They weren't death penalty circumstances, we did not vacate or dismiss ourselves from any tournament chances. Oh just to also let you know UNC fired its coach Matt Doherty after just three seasons for Roy Williams. Don't put your personal ethics to this , its business and nothing more. Other coaches will not turn down a 3-5 million dollar an year job. Would you?

[Uspshoosier 44,946]

They weren't death penalty circumstances, we did not vacate or dismiss ourselves from any tournament chances. Oh just to also let you know UNC fired its coach Matt Doherty after just three seasons for Roy Williams. Don't put your personal ethics to this , its business and nothing more. Other coaches will not turn down a 3-5 million dollar an year job. Would you?

In your opinion they weren't death penalty circumstances but in the views of analysts and people in the college basketball world they compared them to the death penalty

[JSHoosier 19,775]

38 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Then at this point I would say no. I wouldn't open this position at this point hoping Stevens says, "that's all I needed". Cause that won't happen. That basically tells Stevens or any other coach if you don't win a title within five years you will be fired. No other program operates that way. So why take a chance? It makes our program look as unstable as some of our fans view it.

In an ideal world Stevens would tell us "sure, I'm coming" before hand, but the world isn't ideal.  You want to have your cake and eat it too, that doesn't happen either.  I think it's more likely we'd have to go into it with the mindset that we're going to get our man because failure isn't an option.

EDIT:  When Ainge boarded a flight to meet with Stevens he hadn't already been told "sure, I'm coming".  He got on the flight thinking he'd have to fight to get his man.

[Bittersince87 209]

In your opinion they weren't death penalty circumstances but in the views of analysts and people in the college basketball world they compared them to the death penalty

legal terms are not the death penalty. Our penalties were given by our own university and that's it. I was actually proud that our university did that but the death penalty equates to forbidding us to play the season in its entirety plus no schlarships to athletes for at least an entire year. SMU got the death penalty we did not. We choose to slow play to stability to start off fresh ( which is fine with me) but other programs like Syracuse and probably Louisville chose a different path.

Edit - plus we were not denied television revenue or blacked out from tv.