TOM CREAN FIRED

[HoosierAloha]

I understand what you are saying. I do see that with TB. Luckily he has stopped attempting 3's like he was in non-conference schedule.

 

It also feels like he is trying to turn Troy and/or Colin into a poor man's Denzel Valentine. At some point throughout the year he has had those two bringing the ball up the court and initiating our offense. Why on God's green earth would you do this when you have a top 20 finalist for the Wooden award at PG on your team?

 

Glad I'm not the only one seeing this.  I get that players need to expand their game to audition for jobs after college but to what extent is that acceptable?  When Troy continues to drive into three defenders and turn it over or drive baseline and throw it away, when is it too much?  This is a huge complaint I have with Crean.  He believes in his players to make plays they're not capable of making to a fault.

[ChiHoosier5]

Yes, the 6-1 record vs Top 5 teams is impressive, but I feel that is more of a product of our Home Court advantage as opposed to Crean's actual coaching ability. Obviously, our team is going to "get up" for a top 5 opponent at home as is our fan base. Making it very difficult for road teams to come in and win. 

 

I feel two of Crean's biggest "Pluses" are the wins against ranked opponents and bringing in big recruits and Mcdonald's AA. However, I feel that ANY coach that Indiana has would be able to produce this given the history, resources, Assembly Hall, basketball rich state, etc. that Indiana is able to offer. 

 

Yes, Crean should get some credit for getting the recruits and big game wins but I think his supporters try to focus the light on that too much. 

 

The things that gets so many fans frustrated, myself included, is the roller coaster ride each season is. Every year we beat a top 5 team at home but suffer a horrible loss shortly before or after. It's to the point that I feel all fans expect it. Sort of like watching an IU Football game and being up a couple Touchdowns just knowing that the defense is going to somehow let the other team back. 

[Brass Cannon]

People keep bring up our wins against ranked opponents but I wonder how many other teams even get the chance to play that many

[TrueHoosier62]

I asked pap this in chat during the game last night.  Does it feel like Crean teams have parts that try to do more than what they're capable of, more so than under other coaches?  What I mean by this is, trying to get Bryant out top to drive rather than him just posting up, Troy is money along the baseline and getting put backs, etc.  I honestly don't see this, to the extent it happens here, at other programs.  I would love to see a season where players play to their strengths the entire season and use the offseason to build to their game.  It just doesn't feel like players have defined roles under Crean.

In all honesty, I've tried to like coach Crean, and I've tried to remain open minded about the evolving game of college basketball. No one can expect it to remain the same as it was back in 1976; internal and external forces are always going to tweak it here or there. I get that. What I don't get is the complete lack of commitment to the fundamentals of the game. It would be easy to say that not one of the current roster of players would make it off the bench if Knight were still roaming the court, but I'd wager a fair amount of money that the same could be said if it were Gene Keady, Lou Henson, Jud Heathcoate, or practically any number of other coaches, who preached fundamental basketball. Keady's and Henson's teams in particular, lost not because they weren't fundamentally sound, or athletically gifted, but because Keady and Henson were simply inferior to Knight when it cane to game day adjustments and preparation. Every player had a function and a role, and each player played that role to the best of their ability, as that ability developed with coaching. Knight's system of motion offense was a thing of beauty and precision that relied upon it, and his defense was stifling man to man. So what is Crean's approach?

After seven years I still cannot, for the life of me, determine what the game plan is under Crean; what the roles are for the players; and what the system is meant to accomplish. Defense, for this squad, appears to be putting forth any level of effort greater than nothing at all, but there's no hint of system or philosophy or strategy; only effort. I've nearly given up trying to understand the offense, which at best seems to be based on "drive and kick", or (with Troy Williams), "slash and burn". There's no cohesion or unity or synchronicity to it at all, just five random players trying to hit shots.

At any rate, I've said enough. I just get depressed at times, watching the unraveling of a dynasty. 

[Stuhoo]

I read the Iowa board before and after the game last night, and I am reading this board today. I am finding lots of commonalities:

 

Mainly (no surprise here) fans on message boards are incredibly engaged, and as a result, have some truly unrealistic expectations. The Iowa fans have the #4 team in the country, have very few team chemistry or personnel issues, their players played like an incredibly well-coached team, and played against a talented team in a very difficult environment.

 

What do you think their reaction was to the loss? You guessed it: "Fran can't coach when it counts", "Gesell sux", "why can't Fran get them to hit free throws when it counts", "Fran will never be a big-time guy on a consistent basis", etc, etc, etc.

 

By the way, the Kansas and Arizona boards constantly piss and moan about Self having weird hair and mannerisms, and being solely a regular season tiger, the Duke boards fret that K has turned Duke into a UK one and done clone, and the Dayton boards think Archie is a great coach that has lost too many players to off-court issues.

 

Butler (under Stevens) and MSU fans? Maybe those two schools were/are regularly and almost universally happy with their coaches. I suppose you can sometimes add the idiot fringe at UK, who are largely happy that Cal has turned UK into a team that gets pretty far and is a nice NBA development/cash acquisition squad. Although, they also have a recurring theme that Cal should have won more than one title with the talent he's had, and they also wonder why Cal didn't get his usual level of talent for this year's team (they have six 5* players on their roster).

 

So, to me, to suggest that if CTC goes to a Final Four this year, has a stacked roster lined up for next year that is pretty much guaranteed to be a contender for the B1G title, and continues pretty good graduation and academic achievement rates, he should still be fired, is, is, IS LUDICROUS! We are having a trouble-free season, tied for the top of one of the top three conferences, and have about as good a chance as any of about 15-20 teams of winning the national championship. We have clearly defined team leaders, players that have very clearly defined roles (have you noticed how well Juwan, Max, and Z have been used?) and a very high ceiling.

 

In other words, enjoy the heck out of this season, and the job the coaching staff has been doing during it. If you don't believe me, go to the Inside The Hall post-game player interviews from last night. Listen to Hartman, Niego, and Yogi talk about the team's attitude and their coaches. Or don't believe them either! That's okay too, but in my opinion that's your loss.

 

Having said that, the beauty of message boards, (and this one in particular that is near and dear to me) is the variety and free-expression of firmly held opinions. So, feel fire to fire away in response to this post... it's okay! Oh, and Hova, sorry in advance for a classic "TLDNR post".  :)

[jmsgws]

So, to me, to suggest that if CTC goes to a Final Four this year, has a stacked roster lined up for next year that is pretty much guaranteed to be a contender for the B1G title, and continues pretty good graduation and academic achievement rates, he should still be fired, is, is, IS LUDICROUS! We are having a trouble-free season, tied for the top of one of the top three conferences, and have about as good a chance as any of about 15-20 teams of winning the national championship. We have clearly defined team leaders, players that have very clearly defined roles (have you noticed how well Juwan, Max, and Z have been used?) and a very high ceiling.

 

I happen to agree with you, especially in regards to Crean coming back next year.  He will; barring something incredible happening in the coming months.  I just don't see Glass firing Crean after this season unless something incredibly bad happens. 

That being said, I can also see the other side as well.  The old saying even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while comes to mind.  :)

What happens though if he finishes top 4 in b1g, and only makes it to the 2nd round of the NCAA's?  Has he done enough then? 

[Stuhoo]

There are lots of ways to finely slice and dice the possibilities. That's why it's fun to tune in and to find out!

[chitown hoosier]

So Indiana is 20-5 tied for the top of the b1g and just defeated #4 Iowa but Crean can't manage games or coach. Yet, fans who watch the games on tv can point out all of Creans flaws as a coach. I just wonder at times the fire that would be spit if Indiana was in the middle of the pack of the b1g right now say like MSU and Purdue.

[Uwe Robb]

I read on here that you have a certain percentage of the fan base that is happy with what TC is doing, a certain percentage that is not happy. A certain percentage that will be happy if XYZ happens. A certain percentage that will never be happy regardless of what he does. It is a split fan base to say the least. I hate to even try to compare Crean to Bob Knight, but when he was at the helm I would venture to say you had a very very small percentage that was not in favor of the man from 1974-1995. From around 1996-2001 was a whole different story. More and more people were starting to talk (whisper) about a change at IU. This was difficult since the man had done so much for the iubb program. So we probably ended up holding on to him a few years too long in the end.

 

We are in a society today where NFL coaches get 1 year to try to turn a team around. Not saying these demands are ideal.

 

Crean has had 8 years. I am not going to try to say where I think the team should be or how many wins or how many B1G titles or how deep in the tournament he should go. I just judge it by the fan base. We are still split and if half of the fanbase does not want the coach then I think deep down I know what the answer should be.

 

With all of that said I think one of the only coaches that could unite the fan base again would be Brad Stevens. If we can get him tomorrow then I say fire Crean. If we can get him in a year then I say we keep Crean a year. If we can get him in two years I say we keep Crean 2 years. I am not sure what the magic number is because I know we cannot hire an interim HC while we wait for BS. These kids sign 4 year deals and expect a coach to be here for the length of their scholarships. I just hope Glass can figure this out thru some back door channels.

 

And while I wait for BS then I really am rooting as hard as I can for TC and his boys. I would like nothing better than to win a couple conference titles and Final Four while I am waiting for BS to show up. I just think each year we finish 4-6 in B1G with an early exit in NCAA then the percentage of the fanbase shifts more and more.

[Brass Cannon]

So Indiana is 20-5 tied for the top of the b1g and just defeated #4 Iowa but Crean can't manage games or coach. Yet, fans who watch the games on tv can point out all of Creans flaws as a coach. I just wonder at times the fire that would be spit if Indiana was in the middle of the pack of the b1g right now say like MSU and Purdue.

Unlike Crean Izzo has a long established track record of postseason performance.  Big difference, and frankly Purdue fans have every right to be upset with their coaching record. 

 

And I am sorry we have lost to Wake Forest, UNLV and Penn State this year HE CANT COACH

[8bucks]

Unlike Crean Izzo has a long established track record of postseason performance. Big difference, and frankly Purdue fans have every right to be upset with their coaching record.

And I am sorry we have lost to Wake Forest, UNLV and Penn State this year HE CANT COACH

You don't understand. This year, DWade and 2012-13 up through winning the BT. The other 12 years were a fluke.

[chitown hoosier]

Unlike Crean Izzo has a long established track record of postseason performance. Big difference, and frankly Purdue fans have every right to be upset with their coaching record.

And I am sorry we have lost to Wake Forest, UNLV and Penn State this year HE CANT COACH

Wake forest and UNLV were early losses. The team is completely different now than it was in the beginning of the season. That's considered coaching. If you can't give him that benefit than we are just going to have to disagree. Almost every top team has at least 1 bad loss to their season. Just because a team has a bad loss doesn't necessarily mean that the coach can't coach. Look, I'm not happy about the loss to Penn state either but this is the big ten. Road wins do not come easy.

[HoosierAloha]

Wake forest and UNLV were early losses. The team is completely different now than it was in the beginning of the season. That's considered coaching. If you can't give him that benefit than we are just going to have to disagree. Almost every top team has at least 1 bad loss to their season. Just because a team has a bad loss doesn't necessarily mean that the coach can't coach. Look, I'm not happy about the loss to Penn state either but this is the big ten. Road wins do not come easy.

 

Iowa and Maryland have yet to have their WTH conference loss.  IU, pu, and MSU have all had theirs.

[Brass Cannon]

Wake forest and UNLV were early losses. The team is completely different now than it was in the beginning of the season. That's considered coaching. If you can't give him that benefit than we are just going to have to disagree. Almost every top team has at least 1 bad loss to their season. Just because a team has a bad loss doesn't necessarily mean that the coach can't coach. Look, I'm not happy about the loss to Penn state either but this is the big ten. Road wins do not come easy.

 

Problem is that so far this season we have had 3 WTH losses and thats an improvement for Tom Crean.  And we have a team loaded with upper classmen contributors, the early season excuse doesn't fly.  If we were Kentucky maybe but we started  a senior, a junior, 2 sophmores and 2 of the first guys off our bench were grad transfers. 

[Uspshoosier]

Problem is that so far this season we have had 3 WTH losses and thats an improvement for Tom Crean. And we have a team loaded with upper classmen contributors, the early season excuse doesn't fly. If we were Kentucky maybe but we started a senior, a junior, 2 sophmores and 2 of the first guys off our bench were grad transfers.

unlv also beat Oregon this year so it's not like they didn't have talent to compete with top programs. Wake also beat ucla and media darling Lsu on the road. I got nothing for you for penn st no excuse for that loss except it's college basketball on the road anything can happen

[chitown hoosier]

Problem is that so far this season we have had 3 WTH losses and thats an improvement for Tom Crean. And we have a team loaded with upper classmen contributors, the early season excuse doesn't fly. If we were Kentucky maybe but we started a senior, a junior, 2 sophmores and 2 of the first guys off our bench were grad transfers.

Since when are sophomores considered upper classemen. Indiana also lost one of their best offensive players. A freshman class that has contributed greatly to the success this year. They also just beat one of the most experienced teams in the b1g. I won't be able to fully gauge the job Crean had done until after the season but to say he can't coach is pretty ridiculous.

[Old Friend]

Since when are sophomores considered upper classemen. Indiana also lost one of their best offensive players. A freshman class that has contributed greatly to the success this year. They also just beat one of the most experienced teams in the b1g. I won't be able to fully gauge the job Crean had done until after the season but to say he can't coach is pretty ridiculous.

Anyone who's made it to a head job in college "can coach."  Especially at a high D1 level las Crean has achieved.  The thing with him is whether or not he's good "enough" or a capable bench guy at a level to which Indiana fans and administration expect.  Crean generally game plans well, and he has some strengths that are truly special - his secondary break, transition, and spacing of the floor, in particular.  He's really good at that.   He makes some really odd decisions, some really BAD decisions, and I question his recruiting strategy.  But overall, yes....he "can coach."  That's relative, though....and the formula for being accepted, respected, and appreciated by a fan base is a multi-faceted animal.  Crean has several strengths, but a few debilitating weaknesses, too.

[maxwell]

Anyone who's made it to a head job in college "can coach."  Especially at a high D1 level las Crean has achieved.  The thing with him is whether or not he's good "enough" or a capable bench guy at a level to which Indiana fans and administration expect.  Crean generally game plans well, and he has some strengths that are truly special - his secondary break, transition, and spacing of the floor, in particular.  He's really good at that.   He makes some really odd decisions, some really BAD decisions, and I question his recruiting strategy.  But overall, yes....he "can coach."  That's relative, though....and the formula for being accepted, respected, and appreciated by a fan base is a multi-faceted animal.  Crean has several strengths, but a few debilitating weaknesses, too.

What would you say are the three to five most important components of this formula that is considered to be a multi-faceted animal?  Who are your top three candidates that would excel in this multifaceted formula that would be possible replacements for Crean when/if he and the administration decide to part ways?

[Brass Cannon]

Since when are sophomores considered upper classemen. Indiana also lost one of their best offensive players. A freshman class that has contributed greatly to the success this year. They also just beat one of the most experienced teams in the b1g. I won't be able to fully gauge the job Crean had done until after the season but to say he can't coach is pretty ridiculous.

I know you are pulling excuses out of thin air. But sophomores are experienced college players you don't get to use the it's early in the season excuse with them. And we had not lost one of the best offensive weapons in the country for 2 of the 3 wth losses so that's an excuse that doesn't fly.

And yes Crean can coach much in the same way I can direct a blockbuster movie.

[chitown hoosier]

I know you are pulling excuses out of thin air. But sophomores are experienced college players you don't get to use the it's early in the season excuse with them. And we had not lost one of the best offensive weapons in the country for 2 of the 3 wth losses so that's an excuse that doesn't fly.

And yes Crean can coach much in the same way I can direct a blockbuster movie.

What excuses? Sophomores are not upper class men. That's just a fact. Did I ever say that they shouldn't have the experience to contribute? You keep bringing up the 2 bad losses earlier in the year. Those are bad losses but Indiana is a different team from earlier in the year. If you can't see that than I'm not sure you've been watching them play throughout this season. Improvement comes from coaching believe it or not. I am not a Crean hater or supporter but I just find it funny that so many believe they can coach better than him.