Chicago Cubs Thread

[mdn82 25,510]

Sure just wasn't a draft pick from your farm.


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Nope just a trade for Steve Clevenger and Scott Feldman and we got Pedro Strop too. I think he was just talking about Free Agent signings.


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[mdn82 25,510]

Our farm has provided more WAR per draft pick than any other team this year. We have hit on an unusually high amount of picks lately. There is good scouting, but a lot of it is luck too. Not only drafts but trades too.


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[Hovadipo 55,450]

Nothing I like like better than watching big market big payroll teams who try to buy a WS go DOWN!

This would be valid if it made any sense.


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[Brass Cannon 24,482]

Not sure why people think the Cubs built this team with the Yankee model per se. They built this team they didn't buy it. 

I said earlier though it is going to be interesting to see how long they can hold a group of guys who have had this much success so quickly together and if they can reload rather than rebuild. 

[Alford Bailey 12,373]

2 hours ago, BtownBanner6 said:

Know what you're saying, and this will be the Cubs soon, but for now this team is mostly drafted sans Lester, Heyward, and Zobrist

Not specifically talking about the Cubs and I dont hate them, yet.

[mdn82 25,510]

Not sure why people think the Cubs built this team with the Yankee model per se. They built this team they didn't buy it. 

I said earlier though it is going to be interesting to see how long they can hold a group of guys who have had this much success so quickly together and if they can reload rather than rebuild. 

Yeah I think our pitching staff gets hit first. Our minors really doesn't have arms. I truly think we trade Soler and maybe even a Baez just to get the arms necessary to compete in the coming years.


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[Alford Bailey 12,373]

52 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

 

This would be valid if it made any sense.


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Top 5 payroll in the 3rd largest market. It would be a nice story if the Cubs won and the farm system has been great. But lets not act like they havent spent the $$.

[Dalton26 16,892]

Top 5 payroll in the 3rd largest market. It would be a nice story if the Cubs won and the farm system has been great. But lets not act like they havent spent the $$.

You can say the same for almost every team in the league. Every team has spent the money at one time or another.

The built not bought argument is beyond weak/pathetic. It's a part of the sport and every team does it/has the chance to do it.

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

You can say the same for almost every team in the league. Every team has spent the money at one time or another.

The built not bought argument is beyond weak/pathetic. It's a part of the sport and every team does it/has the chance to do it.

No that's just not accurate, every team has spent their money on a certain player or two but not everyone has the money to buy their whole team. No matter how you cut it the Diamondbacks will never be able to buy the same team the Dodgers can buy.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,310]

Let's not give up the ghost just yet.  Teams have come back from a 3-1 deficit before.

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2016/10/30/13470278/come-back-from-3-1-deficit-world-series

[JSHoosier 19,985]

1 hour ago, Alford Bailey said:

Top 5 payroll in the 3rd largest market. It would be a nice story if the Cubs won and the farm system has been great. But lets not act like they havent spent the $$.

I don't see how it matters.  Most prospects don't pan out, so it's kind of foolish to try and build a team solely internal; combined with free agency usually coming down to which team offers the most money you have to spend.

Their farm system has been pretty darn good too, although there is an element of luck involved with them having so many prospects play well.

[Brass Cannon 24,482]

9 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I don't see how it matters.  Most prospects don't pan out, so it's kind of foolish to try and build a team solely internal; combined with free agency usually coming down to which team offers the most money you have to spend.

Their farm system has been pretty darn good too, although there is an element of luck involved with them having so many prospects play well.

Most prospects don't pan out but you get 4 or 5 a year that do then you supplement with FA signings. Tons of teams build internally. 

[Dalton26 16,892]

No that's just not accurate, every team has spent their money on a certain player or two but not everyone has the money to buy their whole team. No matter how you cut it the Diamondbacks will never be able to buy the same team the Dodgers can buy.

That is 100% accurate. The diamondback were a terrible example to use too. They just outspent the Dodgers this last offseason for Grienke and made a big yet horrible trade for Shelby Miller. You're essentially saying that because one owner doesn't want to spend the money that it's not fair that other owners will? That's total crap. All teams have the same opportunities some owners are just too cheap. The Marlins who are by far probably the cheapest team in the league just broke the bank a few seasons ago and it failed miserably. The not everyone has the money to just buy their team excuse is a flat out lie. These are billionaire owners who can easily afford to spend a couple hundred million every season to buy their team. They make far more than they spend on their teams payroll.

A better example would've been comparing teams front offices rather than their payroll. My Phillies for example along with the Yankees have had 2 of the highest payrolls and neither team is very good with my Phillies being total garbage. The cubs signed Epstein which is what turned their franchise around. The man knows what he's doing and the argument that they bought their team is flat out false. Look at all the players they have that came from their farm. It's a professional sport and you need a good balance of spending and development to be successful.

No one is complaining about the Indians who have acquired Bauer, Kluber, Miller, Santana, Carrasco, Brantley, and Napoli through trades or Free Agency. None of those guys were drafted by the Indians. The perception that there are teams who drafted all their best players is false.

[Hovadipo 55,450]

Top 5 payroll in the 3rd largest market. It would be a nice story if the Cubs won and the farm system has been great. But lets not act like they havent spent the $$.

When you say "built not bought" it makes you sound like the Cubs went out and bought every top dollar free agent available. We spent the really big money on Lester and Heyward. Other than that Theo has gone out and found the guys to put together an insane collection of young talent and got lucky on guys like Hendricks and Arrieta and even Rizzo was a bit of a stroke of luck even though he was a Hendry guy. It's been a lot of luck, good scouting, and sucking, but saying this team was bought in the traditional sense is just false.


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[BtownBanner6 1,298]

That is 100% accurate. The diamondback were a terrible example to use too. They just outspent the Dodgers this last offseason for Grienke and made a big yet horrible trade for Shelby Miller. You're essentially saying that because one owner doesn't want to spend the money that it's not fair that other owners will? That's total crap. All teams have the same opportunities some owners are just too cheap. The Marlins who are by far probably the cheapest team in the league just broke the bank a few seasons ago and it failed miserably. The not everyone has the money to just buy their team excuse is a flat out lie. These are billionaire owners who can easily afford to spend a couple hundred million every season to buy their team. They make far more than they spend on their teams payroll.

A better example would've been comparing teams front offices rather than their payroll. My Phillies for example along with the Yankees have had 2 of the highest payrolls and neither team is very good with my Phillies being total garbage. The cubs signed Epstein which is what turned their franchise around. The man knows what he's doing and the argument that they bought their team is flat out false. Look at all the players they have that came from their farm. It's a professional sport and you need a good balance of spending and development to be successful.

No one is complaining about the Indians who have acquired Bauer, Kluber, Miller, Santana, Carrasco, Brantley, and Napoli through trades or Free Agency. None of those guys were drafted by the Indians. The perception that there are teams who drafted all their best players is false.

I'm not talking teams are built through farm systems, but it's no secret that with the way Baseball works big teams have more money. Dodgers owners clearly have more money. You bring up one player the Diamondbacks offered more but I'd like to see the whole team. Wasn't A-Rods deal with the Yankees worth more then the whole Marlins team? It's no secret and it's no excuse. I'm not saying smaller markets teams can't win but when they do it's usually lead by young players who blossomed quicker then thought or other players who have had unexpected success with a new team.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3324199 Article where I read the A-Rod bit.

[mdn82 25,510]

The Cubs front loaded the contract of Jayson Heyward as well as Jon Lester.  They make up close to 1/3 of the overall $172 million payroll of the Cubs.  They did this so they wouldn't pay for bad production (ironic in Heyward's case).  The Indians have a Salary under $100 million which is incredible, but not sustainable to keep a top team.  The Cubs did bump up their payroll by 42.6% this previous offseason according to http://fortune.com/2016/10/30/chicago-cubs-cleveland-indians/.   I would encourage anyone not liking the jumping payrolls in both the NBA and MLB try to understand the tv deals happening in both leagues and understand they are going to have a huge impact on not only payroll, but where the talent goes.  The Cubs deal is up after the 2019 season.  It is no coincidence the contracts they have or the Arb years set up will expire after that season.  Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber, Addison Russell, Anthony Rizzo, Wilson Contreras, Jon Lester, and Javy Baez are all under control beyond 2019.  Right now the Cubs just got a raise from WGN to make $750,000 per broadcast.  CSN doesn't pay that much.  It is anticipated they will get as much as if not more than the LA Dodgers TV deal and make over $1,000,000 per game broadcasted.  http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/01/06/levine-cubs-wgn-reach-multi-year-tv-deal/.  With the Cubs winning and bandwagon fans, the ratings have tripled over the last 2 years locally http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/10/06/chicago-cubs-tv-ratings-have-exploded/.  They average a 4.5 share on the year.  That is incredible.  That is negotiating power.  So no, I am not worried about ballooning costs, and young players not being able to be resigned.  They will.  Will one or two players want out?  Maybe, but our core is in tact for the foreseeable future.  

 

 

[Alford Bailey 12,373]

Cubs should have plenty of money to maintain. They are in a group of about 10 or so teams that can do that. Most of the small market teams have to build from within and then add a few pieces at the right time to make a run. The Reds are a perfect example. Arguably the best team in baseball a couple years ago with mostly homegrown players and a few added players. But they cant afford to maintain. They get a short window then have rebuild again. It takes years. A huge disadvantage. Big market teams can reload if needed. Dont have to pay much attention to MLB to see this.... 

But I wouldnt give up on the Cubs yet. They are insanely talented and can win 3 in a row.

[LockdownD 2,238]

Lester is off to a great start.  Hope the team gives him some run support.

[LockdownD 2,238]

13 minutes ago, LockdownD said:

Lester is off to a great start.  Hope the team gives him some run support.

Well, shoot.  Spoke too soon.

[LIHoosier 26,023]

Bryant knocks one out and the Cubbies have a rare rally going.

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