(2017) PF Billy Preston to Kansas

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,722]

I think it's pretty clear that Wilkes just wasn't ever going to come here.

What more could Tom Crean have done to try and land him?  His message was duly noted, but it was largely falling on deaf ears.  You can move into his family's guest bedroom and recruit a kid until you're blue in the face but ultimately, Wilkes just didn't want to come here.  I don't fault Crean for not landing Wilkes, I fault Wilkes and his questionable logic for choosing UCLA.

Fair and agree.

If it was that obvious, and I agree it was, why does our staff stay until the 11th hour and not find an equivalent talent to recruit.

To answer my own question, that was probably Justin Smith. Figured it was but was told by many we were recruiting SMITH and WILKES. If so, that intended recruiting spot is still unfilled.

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[Class of '66 Old Fart 87,506]

Who can relax at a time like this?

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

25 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

It's truly weird but I think our two best classes will end up being ones where Crean went strictly under radar for just two recruits. Hopefully at this point I hope he doesn't make a career out of it. But 10 and 15 classes have worked for him.


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I would agree with that.  The '12 and '13 classes were supposed to be filled with early contributors (Yogi, Hollowell, Vonleh, Williams, Robinson, Fischer) but also had depth to them (5 and 6 recruits).  The top end of those classes panned out while there were some character flaws with some of the other recruits.  I'm excited to see how Smith, Moore, and Durham develop but I don't see the kind of elite talent on next year's squad that puts us in a position to contend.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

36 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

I think it's pretty clear that Wilkes just wasn't ever going to come here.

What more could Tom Crean have done to try and land him?  His message was duly noted, but it was largely falling on deaf ears.  You can move into his family's guest bedroom and recruit a kid until you're blue in the face but ultimately, Wilkes just didn't want to come here.  I don't fault Crean for not landing Wilkes, I fault Wilkes and his questionable logic for choosing UCLA.

 

 

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Fair and agree.

If it was that obvious, and I agree it was, why does our staff stay until the 11th hour and not find an equivalent talent to recruit.

To answer my own question, that was probably Justin Smith. Figured it was but was told by many we were recruiting SMITH and WILKES. If so, that intended recruiting spot is still unfilled.

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AK, you couldn't be more wrong. Wayne, same. I know, at least Wayne, doesn't believe me on Wilkes which is TOTALLY fine but for the masses this is truly conjecture in it's definition. Just don't need the Wilkes thing feeding the larger narrative...

[BGleas 8,133]

4 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I would agree with that.  The '12 and '13 classes were supposed to be filled with early contributors (Yogi, Hollowell, Vonleh, Williams, Robinson, Fischer) but also had depth to them (5 and 6 recruits).  The top end of those classes panned out while there were some character flaws with some of the other recruits.  I'm excited to see how Smith, Moore, and Durham develop but I don't see the kind of elite talent on next year's squad that puts us in a position to contend.

I think the point is kind of two-fold as well. The '10 and '15 classes were both good because of the talent they ended up bringing, but the other aspect of it is that when you bring in a 2 and 3-man class it means there's less roster turnover as well. It means most likely those classes are joining experienced teams with upperclassmen. Obviously the '10 class is a little different because of the situation, but in a typical situation a 2-man class is joining an experienced team.

Then you look at the '13 and '14 classes, they were a larger and they both joined teams with lots of turnover, and especially in the case of the '13 class they joined a team with very little experience. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,722]

AK, you couldn't be more wrong. Wayne, same. I know, at least Wayne, doesn't believe me on Wilkes which is TOTALLY fine but for the masses this is truly conjecture in it's definition. Just don't need the Wilkes thing feeding the larger narrative...

I don't care about Wilkes per se. Just wanted talent coming in to replace talent going out.

OG, Hartman, Bryant, Blackmon > Moore, Smith, Durham.

That's the problem in my eyes. That's all. Maybe OG and Hartman don't go. Maybe.....maybe.........maybe. Several things could happen to help us. I'm hoping.

Side note-I don't know what it takes though to get some to admit we aren't recruiting well or efficiently this offseason.


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[akhosrof 1,168]

Deal with it guys, this is the cost of running a clean program. If you want to take the risk of hiring another Sampson who tries to tie the line with the rules to land top talent, it's not happening. Until Crean wins a national championship and is able to flash that ring in front of recruits, we will continue to strike out on five star guys.

No five star recruit wants to hear the phrase "player development." Some guys are salesmen, Crean is not.

This is why missing on Waters is our biggest miss of the 2017 class. He should have been a Crean guy. He should have seen the success of Yogi. I understand he wanted to stay close to home though.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I don't care about Wilkes per se. Just wanted talent coming in to replace talent going out.

OG, Hartman, Bryant, Blackmon > Moore, Smith, Durham.

That's the problem in my eyes. That's all. Maybe OG and Hartman don't go. Maybe.....maybe.........maybe. Several things could happen to help us. I'm hoping.

Side note-I don't know what it takes though to get some to admit we aren't recruiting well or efficiently this offseason.


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OG is gone. Was way closer to leaving than TB last year.

To your side note...the efficiency argument has never made sense to me. It's budgeted for. You expect better results based on a concrete number spent on plane rides? That is not how recruiting works. At ALL. 

I'm down for the conversation though

 

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

Deal with it guys, this is the cost of running a clean program. If you want to take the risk of hiring another Sampson who tries to tie the line with the rules to land top talent, it's not happening. Until Crean wins a national championship and is able to flash that ring in front of recruits, we will continue to strike out on five star guys.

No five star recruit wants to hear the phrase "player development." Some guys are salesmen, Crean is not.

This is why missing on Waters is our biggest miss of the 2017 class. He should have been a Crean guy. He should have seen the success of Yogi. I understand he wanted to stay close to home though.

How did we land 5 straight McD's AA 5 star guys from 2011-2015? I do agree Crean needs to be able to show a higher ceiling than three Sweet 16s and two B1G regular season championships.

I don't think a "deal with it" is appropriate. I'm "dealing" with it by expressing my fear of a drop off when the talent drops. A single down year in 2017-2018 isn't that bad. (A down year that includes a top 5 B1G finish and a tourney appearance) My fear is the following year depending more elite level freshmen we're not currently getting.

[Scooter D 928]

I do think that Crean is unwilling to compromise himself or the program by making offers that he can't uphold.  I am sure that it does not help with the 5* recruits as they are probably use to coaches telling them want they want to hear.

Honestly, I woud rather CTC concentrate on high 4* players that will be around for a few years.  Teams need that core and leadership.  Not worried about next year yet, as we have this one to get through.  

[MikeRoberts 7,573]

OG is gone. Was way closer to leaving than TB last year.

To your side note...the efficiency argument has never made sense to me. It's budgeted for. You expect better results based on a concrete number spent on plane rides? That is not how recruiting works. At ALL. 

I'm down for the conversation though

 

our recruiting is a mile wide and an inch deep. It gets us on the radar of many recruits but a more concentrated approach could be more efficient and more effective. We make a lot of players top 5s but close very few of those. As you have pointed out, we are not getting it done in our own state. We recruit here but aren't the draw we should be. If we could get an assistant or two that has a great rep with players and coaches here we could get more done and save time on flights.

While it's not a science, it is safe to say, anyone approving a budget or T&E expects results to correlate with spend. It's a business and ROI is important

[Brass Cannon 25,166]

We are one Davis injury away from a very rough season next year and people are saying we are fine I just don't see how the two go together. 

With the resources we allocate we should always be in the hunt for the Big ten Title not hoping to just be top 5. 

[mdn82 25,765]

We are one Davis injury away from a very rough season next year and people are saying we are fine I just don't see how the two go together. 

With the resources we allocate we should always be in the hunt for the Big ten Title not hoping to just be top 5. 

So do you feel we should allocate more of this money to advertising? At this point it goes beyond proving he can compete in conference, develop players (which is only good for players believing they will be here longer than a year), create a good family atmosphere. Games on ESPN or CBS should be good advertising. I don't know. I guess I just don't see it as black and white as some. Each situation is different. We are not pulling 5* as much as everyone would like. I get that. But we are winning with what we got. Every year this time of year this is the same argument we see. We are coming off back to back B1G titles. Morgan and OG was such a disappointing class to many when they signed. Here we are. I think this is just overboard until we see how players develop which happens every year under Crean, and then see what is needed for next year. To answer your statement for a Davis injury I see us going out and getting a grad transfer. There are 300 plus every year if it is what is needed.


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[BGleas 8,133]

1 hour ago, hoosierpap said:

OG is gone. Was way closer to leaving than TB last year.

To your side note...the efficiency argument has never made sense to me. It's budgeted for. You expect better results based on a concrete number spent on plane rides? That is not how recruiting works. At ALL. 

I'm down for the conversation though

 

Curious as to your thoughts on whether offering the local kids (8th/9th grade) so early is an effective strategy? I've always wondered if the better way, at least for local kids, would be showing interest of course but holding the offer until later in their careers. Add some "specialness" to it. 

You you always hear of kids holding out for that UK offer or Duke offer, almost begging for it through the media. While we're not UK or Duke, there should be an element of that for IU with local kids, but I'm wondering if Crean comes on too strong, too early with the local kids? Instead of offering them in 9th grade and being all over them, make them wait/hold out a bit for us. Make them really want us. 

The risk of course is that someone else builds a strong relationship and we're top late, but what they're doing now clearly isn't working. 

Thoughts?

[Class of '66 Old Fart 87,506]

Seems like this thread has strayed quite a bit from Billy Preston; time to split it into a new thread?

[Brass Cannon 25,166]

22 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

So do you feel we should allocate more of this money to advertising? At this point it goes beyond proving he can compete in conference, develop players (which is only good for players believing they will be here longer than a year), create a good family atmosphere. Games on ESPN or CBS should be good advertising. I don't know. I guess I just don't see it as black and white as some. Each situation is different. We are not pulling 5* as much as everyone would like. I get that. But we are winning with what we got. Every year this time of year this is the same argument we see. We are coming off back to back B1G titles. Morgan and OG was such a disappointing class to many when they signed. Here we are. I think this is just overboard until we see how players develop which happens every year under Crean, and then see what is needed for next year. To answer your statement for a Davis injury I see us going out and getting a grad transfer. There are 300 plus every year if it is what is needed.


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I'm sure what the solution is tbh I really think we should be targeting different players for a start. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,722]

OG is gone. Was way closer to leaving than TB last year.

To your side note...the efficiency argument has never made sense to me. It's budgeted for. You expect better results based on a concrete number spent on plane rides? That is not how recruiting works. At ALL. 

I'm down for the conversation though

 

our recruiting is a mile wide and an inch deep. It gets us on the radar of many recruits but a more concentrated approach could be more efficient and more effective. We make a lot of players top 5s but close very few of those. As you have pointed out, we are not getting it done in our own state. We recruit here but aren't the draw we should be. If we could get an assistant or two that has a great rep with players and coaches here we could get more done and save time on flights.

While it's not a science, it is safe to say, anyone approving a budget or T&E expects results to correlate with spend. It's a business and ROI is important

This is my argument or debate regarding efficiency.

We chase players we have no shot at. We offer about everyone under the sun.

All I know is we work relentlessly and the results are underwhelming.

I wonder if a more concentrated approach would help.


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[MikeRoberts 7,573]

Can't figure out how to start a new thread from the mobile app but think it would be interesting to discuss, analyze and dissect the pros and cons of each of IUs assistants. Each are here for different reasons I'm sure, would be interested in knowing what their expertise was, were they excelling at that and what their improvement areas would be. We evaluate the hell out of Crean and the players but the support staff isn't analyzed nearly as much

[mdn82 25,765]

I'm sure what the solution is tbh I really think we should be targeting different players for a start. 

That is very fair.


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[mdn82 25,765]

This is my argument or debate regarding efficiency.

We chase players we have no shot at. We offer about everyone under the sun.

All I know is we work relentlessly and the results are underwhelming.

I wonder if a more concentrated approach would help.


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I do agree we offer too many people. I don't think we necessarily chase players we have no shot in. If that was the case we don't land Zeller, Bryant, and Blackmon. They were all linked to other schools for various reasons and favored elsewhere to be honest. I think you still have to go after them. We just haven't won those players types of battles the last two years.


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